TLEE86 Part IV

[Sotto]

Hi TLEE - pleased to see you posting again. I agree that this may not be the time to make big decisions....but a year to think sounds good. I think you should live where you want to live with no reference to W just now. In terms of your email, am I right in thinking the overall aim is to achieve financial separation? If so, I would remove all of the whys and wherefore's. The simple fact is that if your W does not want to be 'in' a M with you, you want finances to become separate.

If that's the case, I would just stick to what you propose to do with the financials, and don't include anything on the R or why you are doing it.....maybe just something along these lines...

Hi W, I'd like for us to start looking at our finances in order to separate them and each fund what is ours. I want to be fair and reasonable about money, but I'm only willing to fund things that are yours in the short term and we've been S for 10 months now.

Can I suggest that we transfer X, Y and Z into your name and separate our credit cards too within the next three months please? Perhaps you could have a think and confirm a workable timescale for you with this please?

I hope you are well, and please know that I don't wish to be unreasonable, but I feel it's time for us to start focusing on this now. If you want to discuss it further, or suggest anything different, just let me know.

TLEE

As for the ring on, missing the dogs etc. who knows TLEE. It may be that your W feels a little wistful, but I also get a feeling she may be giving the leash a little tug - just making sure you're still attached to the other end. I don't know - but I think the best thing is not to expend too much mental energy on it. Truly, if your W would like to reconcile, she's going to let you know!

Take care, Toots xx

[TLEE86]

Thank you Cadet, Toots, and Z for the words and advice. I am...struggling. And I think I need to see someone.

It's been about 9months since BD. And I am still on the roller coaster. I look around and it seems most that I started this journey with are no longer on the roller coaster, but trying to accept and live their lives. If WAS wants to join them, then awesome. But if not, they are living their life. I am not.

I don't know what it is, maybe I am stubborn, maybe its my attitude, maybe my "Always have to be in charge/control" personality..but I am still on this ride.

9months later...and I am still realizing that I do the following things- I think I need help.

- Havent slept in our bed since Oct 5 (BD); been sleeping on the couch for 9months because I just cant sleep in the bed

- Still pining for contact, waiting to see if she will text/call

- Never leaving the house on the weekends; I don't even walk the dogs anymore, working out is hit or miss now

- Still snooping on our phone bills

- Therapy/IC is a waste of time for me- I just say whatever I want to say for an hour and thats about it. There is no...going anywhere with it. No fix.

- Still wondering why, how, thinking "Oh today she said this, or why didnt she text today"

- And a million other things.

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W is still playing the victim card, the..."I hurt too T, I still care, but we will never be able to get to that place our M used to be again. Talking to you hurts me...and it stresses me about...no matter what we talk about...this is because of what you did, I hurt during and after everything happened..etc etc."

So now we barely talk. But we havent talked about a way ahead, whether thats D or R. Its just...silence. I suggested maybe bringing in a 3rd party, a mediator, someone to help us talk about something besides the dogs and the weather. She doesnt know.

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I was told I too am playing the victim card, I don't see how, maybe I am, I don't know much of anything anymore.

I need help. I truly do, but Im too proud to get it, too lazy to get it, too...i don't give a [censored] to get it. I have very very dark thoughts lately. Very dark. And it scares me.

My best friends don't care anymore, they have nothing left to say to me. I don't know anyone well enough where I am now to talk to anyone about it. The unit chaplain is horrible, he responds when he feels like it, and never seems to check up on things. Ive never had a chaplain not return phone calls. I feel so alone. I do enough to get through work and then come home and Im a hot mess. And the day repeats. For 9months now.

I read stories here all the time, the latest ones LITB, Karma, and 1 other, I forget who, but all these people still DBing, over 2 years later...how LITB survived 2 different piecings I don't know...

I just don't know how to not hang onto her every word. Her every action or inaction. I keep trying to fix things, maybe because there is literally no problem in the world, no goal of mine since I can remember, that I have ever not achieved. Ive literally accomplished every single task Ive ever wanted to. If there is a problem, there is a solution. There has to be. But I havent let this go. And 9, almost 10months later, I am still on the roller coaster. And the ride continues. Now, its just a silent ride. We barely talk. But I still cant get over it. I need help. Im not doing well.

[Sotto]

TLEE, I'm sorry to read this....It's a tough journey. It sounds as though you are comparing yourself with others and saying - hey, I should be doing better with this. And I don't think you should be so hard on yourself. It takes time to get to a place where you can accept what is happening. I still think about my H more than I would ideally like. His life has little to do with mine just now, but I still give him headspace. I'm working on that one...

It does sound as though it would help to come up with a plan that helps you work towards rebuilding your own life and detaching from the situation with your W more. You say that you think you need to see someone. Do you mean an IC? It sounds as though that may be useful for you. I saw an IC for a while and it was helpful. You're a bright guy and it sounds as though you could sit there for an hour and 'talk the talk.' But you can truly use that time to dig deep too - and explore the possibility that you and your W may not reconcile - and what would that mean for your life going forward? Because it does you no harm to start building THAT life now - even if you and your W do reconcile.

In terms of feeling alone. I get the thing about friends and not talking about it. I went to a friend's house for dinner this week and my sitch wasn't even mentioned! It has become old news now. But there is support out there, and it may be useful to find a support forum where you can share things. Some guys here are involved in NMMNG forums, some attend D support groups, some belong to church support and so on. But it may help to link with others who are going through a similar time and share with them.

Here's the thing - You are a young and talented guy. Whether you or your W reconcile or not, there is a good life to live ahead of you. It is a tough time right now, but you can move slowly and painfully in the direction of that good life you want for yourself - with baby steps if needed. But it's the general direction of travel (forwards) that's important.

Putting your W to one side just now - what baby steps can you take this week to keep your direction of travel moving forwards?

Take care TLEE xx

[Zelda09]

Dear Tlee,

Please don't feel alone. My friends are also at a loss what to say, and if you have dude-ier friends than I do...yours probably love you but are still at a loss.

I need people, too. The other day someone asked me if I was seeing professional, and yes, an IC, divorce support group...they asked, is it helping, and I started crying. No. Not always helping and barely coming close some days.

I do the things you do. I did. Over 45 days of NC, and I am regaining sanity. Your letter, in it, you say that you want to keep talking to her...but you know she has no answers...and it is hurting you...

Would you consider that to heal from your S, and to get to a place where something - whether true piecing or moving forward is possible - that you may benefit from a more positive kind of darkness with your W?

Your dark thoughts worry me, too. Keep posting. And is it possible to find another IC that you can work with? We know each other only virtually, but I think of you, too. You matter, TLEE. Maybe not as much as you want to your W at the moment, and you're not getting the validation you want from her...but you matter a great deal and I know you will feel/inspire love again in the future.

Please go feel the sunshine on your face. Remind yourself how much power and light you are full of. Celebrate you, enjoy your dogs, and maybe go help and validate someone else...that is healing, too. To have friends, be a friend...

As far as the letter, here's my offering:

Dear W,

We have been S over 10 months and you are still living with another man. I feel it is necessary at this time to separate our finances. I am giving you this as a courtesy notice so you can prepare to finance xyz by __date___.

I am working on making the changes I need to in my life, and I am moving forward. You know the rest of my feelings.

TLEE

(and don't respond with a lot more than 'ok', 'got it' and that kind of thing unless she makes a real effort in the future - she has to be the one to discuss turning this around.
--------------------------

Tlee, what you have been doing is not working.

In fact, nothing may!

But, being there to talk and let her tug on the rope whenever SHE needs validation, drama, or what have you...it is not yielding anything new - or mental hygiene for you.

All my opinion, and you can tell me to shove it if you like.

I like Toots question - what are the good things you can do for you tomorrow? The next day? What if TLEE was one of your friends, how would you see him and coach him?

Give yourself the love and treatment you most need dear TLEE.

[Vanilla]

Thank you Cadet, Toots, and Z for the words and advice. I am...struggling. And I think I need to see someone.

It is worth throwing everything you can to develop full mental health.

It's been about 9months since BD. And I am still on the roller coaster. I look around and it seems most that I started this journey with are no longer on the roller coaster, but trying to accept and live their lives. If WAS wants to join them, then awesome. But if not, they are living their life. I am not.

TLee, it's odd, I have been here the same length of time, I see the opposite! I see those who want to develop themselves, staying growing and Developing. It depends who we posted too. In general those who have had the greatest abuse or most complex sitch are here the longest. My sweet TLee that is you and I and Zelda and mustardseed and Greengrass and RD...........
You know this in your thoughts and mind.
Those that can let go of the outcome, have peace sooner.


I don't know what it is, maybe I am stubborn, maybe its my attitude, maybe my "Always have to be in charge/control" personality..but I am still on this ride.

reframe this TLee, it's because that is how long it's taking and at the end of it the renewal will be real and permanent.

9months later...and I am still realizing that I do the following things- I think I need help.

If you feel that there is a choice.

- Havent slept in our bed since Oct 5 (BD); been sleeping on the couch for 9months because I just cant sleep in the bed

I get this, I really do. I slept on a cot bed. It took me almost two months to reclaim my bedroom. If you examine my sitch you will see I stripped everything of WH away. New bed, new bedding, new duvet, new pillows etc, I had spares so I used those. I am busy cleaning, clearing and decorating.

- Still pining for contact, waiting to see if she will text/call

I am currently working on a post on Trauma bonding and Stockholm syndrome for the abuse thread. I believe the roots like there. I am the same, I decided NC for my sanity.

- Never leaving the house on the weekends; I don't even walk the dogs anymore, working out is hit or miss now

Yes, I can sympathise. Little baby steps, small challenges each day TLee.

- Still snooping on our phone bills

Separate the bills, that will stop you. Create a barrier.

- Therapy/IC is a waste of time for me- I just say whatever I want to say for an hour and thats about it. There is no...going anywhere with it. No fix.

I found that for a while, then I changed IC to one who was more direct and challenging. I also did CBT and that moved me forward. if what you are doing isn't working then something new different is called for. Gan travels, V works, Toots does falconry and volunteers and Greengrass wears red kick ass high heels.

- Still wondering why, how, thinking "Oh today she said this, or why didnt she text today"

Thats because you are bonded and trapped. Can you think of a dozen small things you can do when this starts?

- And a million other things.

---------

W is still playing the victim card, the..."I hurt too T, I still care, but we will never be able to get to that place our M used to be again. Talking to you hurts me...and it stresses me about...no matter what we talk about...this is because of what you did, I hurt during and after everything happened..etc etc."

That's what waywards do and say, and this doesn't make it so. In fact one of the things I have learned is when the wayward says these things they are talking about the gap in themselves that they are expecting you to fill. Any description or label they give to you is how they feel about themselves. If they say you are mean then you are generous, if they say you are cold hearted then really the warmth shines through.

So now we barely talk. But we havent talked about a way ahead, whether thats D or R. Its just...silence. I suggested maybe bringing in a 3rd party, a mediator, someone to help us talk about something besides the dogs and the weather. She doesnt know.

No talking will make WW change, she has to do this for herself. TLee concentrate on you at this time. Forget the dogs or weather, just be you and peaceful instead.

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I was told I too am playing the victim card, I don't see how, maybe I am, I don't know much of anything anymore.

Who told you that? If it's WW, 100% rule.......

I need help. I truly do, but Im too proud to get it, too lazy to get it, too...i don't give a [censored] to get it. I have very very dark thoughts lately. Very dark. And it scares me.

TLee a safe person in your life needs to know this.

My best friends don't care anymore, they have nothing left to say to me. I don't know anyone well enough where I am now to talk to anyone about it. The unit chaplain is horrible, he responds when he feels like it, and never seems to check up on things. Ive never had a chaplain not return phone calls. I feel so alone. I do enough to get through work and then come home and Im a hot mess. And the day repeats. For 9months now.

This is very tough TLee. Very tough and makes me sad for the lack of care of you.

I read stories here all the time, the latest ones LITB, Karma, and 1 other, I forget who, but all these people still DBing, over 2 years later...how LITB survived 2 different piecings I don't know...

So you acknowledge there are those of us who need longer and are in more complex psychological sitch. For me this stated Feb 2014 and my recovery is only just beginning. If there is anything to do its to stay NC.

I just don't know how to not hang onto her every word. Her every action or inaction. I keep trying to fix things, maybe because there is literally no problem in the world, no goal of mine since I can remember, that I have ever not achieved. Ive literally accomplished every single task Ive ever wanted to. If there is a problem, there is a solution. There has to be. But I havent let this go. And 9, almost 10months later, I am still on the roller coaster. And the ride continues. Now, its just a silent ride. We barely talk. But I still cant get over it. I need help. Im not doing well.

You may not be thriving, and I can see you doing better.


V

[Vanilla]

You ok TLee.

Here to chat if you need

V

[TLEE86]

Im here...very frustrated but here.

So I sent her the email about cutting her off. Worded it very carefully and then followed up with a text to say I sent you an email, please read it- since she doesnt check her email super often.

She sends me a text today, not even addressing the finances (i don't even know if she read it) and basically said...talking to you brings me down. Thinking about our situation brings me down, that the slightest contact with me makes her stressed and sends her into a "downward spiral." That it makes it hard for her to move forward and heal.

This seriously pissed me the [censored] off...because IM SENDING HER INTO A DOWNWARD SPIRAL? YOUre BLAMing ME?

1. Up until the past 2 weeks she's been contacting me every time she's stressed because I make her feel better
2. Im still keeping her afloat financially right now? How am I hurting her?
3. I actually spoke with her mom who basically told me that she doesnt think the door on me is closed. That when she left Texas a couple months ago she was telling her mom she's not sure if she should pack her bags and come back to Texas that this guy she is with cant support and provide for her and that he makes his kid a priority over her. But interesting enough, her mom told me to stand up for myself and not be a "pin cushion" because that isn't going to help her respect me. (yes everyone has said that here)

So what I did today, after she again decided to never answer my calls or texts, I said, please read the email i wrote you, I'm sorry if you feel like i bring you down because i try and do the opposite, and that we need to discuss the finances issues and call me by Friday because i don't want to make decisions by myself. Although I am set on cutting her off, id like to actually be able to tell her that instead of she tries to swipe her card and it doesnt work. But if she doesnt call me by Friday, Im going to try again on monday and then if i still don't hear from her, ill shut them off Monday. Again, I know i can simply text her and say I'm cutting the cards, i guess maybe i just want to be able to tell her directly so we can have a conversationa bout it? Specifically the car because both our names are on it. I cant sell it without her and I cant not pay for it because my names on it. So...until we agree to sell it or she puts it in her name, I'm stuck.

I know i have to cut her off. She will scream bloody murder and possibly throw in the D card. But i have to do it. and I'm going to do it. NLT Monday. I'm just giving and hoping us to have an opportunity to talk about it first...idk. I'm still being a bitch i think

[TLEE86]

I get it. Its taken me along time to realize it but I get why supporting her is bad (yea kinda dumb to just get it). But Ive been married once before, as Ive mentioned before- first wife and i knew it just wasn't going to work. But I pictured myself, when we split and I moved in with my current W, if my ex had continued to financially support me, to treat me nice and give me whatever I wanted. It'd be a little confusing, why was she doing this when I left, maybe she's a good person, but then after a while Id be wondering..she has no boundaries. She's so in love with me that she has no spine, no backbone. She's willing to do antrhing for me and not standup for herself.

I can show my wife i love her very much. She already knows this but I can still show her. But i have to do it without condoning her actions. I have tried so long, for almost 10 months now, to be a nice person, to be the good guy ,and maybe i needed to do that for a while, given the circumstances of why she left me...but now...10months later, I see that she is running all over me. you cant love a person you don't respect. And I would not respect my first wife if she did this for me. She would be seen as just a doormat. And thats why my current wife has the ability or balls to say the things she's saying, blaming me for everything when in reality...she made her bed, so now she needs to sleep in it.

This will still be very hard for me to cut her off, and i know you've all been telling me this since day 1...but finally I'm going to do it. Just trying to prepare myself for the whirlwind of repercussions and nasty things she might say, or even try and do to me.

Oh, and also..what kind of man...the one she's living with...can even live with himself knowing that he cant support her, so he's still allowing her H to do it...obvoiusly he is pretty desperate. If it were me, id feel like less of a man, that i cant even provide for my W...and id have to rely on her ex to provide for her. You know what? No more...she will scream bloody murder or file for D maybe..but its the right thing to do...the self-respecting thing to do. And only when she respects me, can she ever love me again. She knows that Im a good person now, she's said it. But she's still convinced I am the evil behind her pain, the reason she is stressed. But hopefully in time, she realizes that this guy isn't for her, he cant provide for her, that T is not the monster she makes me out to be.

[Vanilla]

TLee

You are not responsible for WW pain, hurt, fins or anything at all. She is a grown woman in a full blown A and trying to cake eat.

You will need to come to that realisation yourself and act, no one here or in your life can make this easier although we can support you.

I understand why you want to tell WW what you are going to do. If it's in the hope she will say "TLee I made a mistake, I love you and I am coming running" then you have expectations.

A number of things may happen - you could start the sweet cycle again and end up even more hurt. WW may spew rant threaten and blame and you will end up hurt. WW could get vindictive with the Fins and act unfairly and you will be hurt.

Look after you TLee, cut the fin tie before you advise WW or she does further damage.

Who has the car TLee? If it's with WW then expect fireworks. If it's in your possession the you may need to pay the loan before you sell the car.

Keep a detailed note of what you spend.

T if she describes you as a monster then you know she is saying that about herself. Record your conversation if you can and must do this by phone.

Personally I would not prewarn again, just do what you have to do.

V

[Vapo]

^^^^^^^^^^^This!

Great post V...