WAS or what

[Cadet]

Communication.
Before communication was not my best point. Being mire communicative us surely a good 180 for me. And it is one of my major goals as per the steps in DR. I have eased back esp texts since being on the forum. I believe this is imp in our R and am not sure how to proceed. Any tips advice or comments are welcome.

I am not sure that practicing your 180 on her is a great idea.
You can try and measure the results, yet sometimes the sound of our voice can be seen as pressure or pursuit.

Asking:
I am trying to use a beginners mind and not assume stuff, but I have the feeling that my wife is not receptive to being asked for what I want in our R. Maybe I should try something small and judge the reaction. Do ye advise to let sleeping dogs lye for the moment?

This is again pursuing and relationship talk is not a good idea.

I am someone who always bottled up emotions esp negative ones. I never explode with anger. My wife has even given out to me in the past for never showing anger. I have shown it but more as a bad mood than an outburst. Now to not put negativity into the mix at home I am bottling up my emotions again. I read in DR of a guy who exploded angrily with wife and it was different for him and it was the start of them getting their R back on track. I thought recently about whether that could be worth thinking about in my case. The context would need to be right and definetely not anger in reaction to her. Any thoughts on this?

You know her better than anyone else.
Anger possibly as something that shows
your manly qualities as a protector.
I would think anything directed at her would not work.


As far as your other thread, it appears that it can not be recovered.
It is totally my fault as I made a mistake with the system software.
I am sorry.

[roist]

Ok Cadet. It's a pity but not worth stressing about. I'll retype a summary and if anyone needs other info after that to offer advice/opinion, I'll gladly answer any questions.

Mixed evening yesterday and not great today. That is the not detaching bit!

Last night we had a kid free evening. Inlaws offered to take them for the night. Yesterday afternoon I asked my wife (text) if there was anything she wanted to do together that evening. I expected her to say no. Yeah there I go again with expectations again. Well she did say not really but then asked if I did. I replied as if I misunderstood her and said I would have preferred to do something together but I will watch a dvd someone lent to me instead. I used a friend outside of her circle as fake loaner, to add falsely to my GAL. (In reality I had bought the DVD for her back when I was pursuing as it was one of her favourite movies.) She found that the dvd didn't match my style which I joked off about not having style or culture. Anyway I watched my film and she did too.

Just before the film we ate together and unplanned we communicated. I'll be childish about it and say she started it! Anyway we talked about the night I went out with my mates and what was said about her friend and the other guys wife etc. I did not give full disclosure but not far from it as I knew she already knew. She then said she knew and wondered why I didn't say anything. I said I didn't like people talking about others and it was delicate as it was about her friends. Plus I said I assumed she already knew probably more than me. I did say that I didn't mention it as it was delicate us being friends with the respective W/H involved. I probably should have said that what goes on in peoples private lives should stay private. I think she wanted to know if I believed what was said I didn't put much pass on it. I wasn't very convincing but I don't care.
I also said that I didn't go out with them the following week because I didn't want to be part of another dirt throwing show. This is not fully true.

Later she asked how come I never showed interest in her friends. I said when I asked about my friends wife she always gave limited replies. I then stated that it had nothing to do with what was being said by the other guys. What I wanted to shout was I believe you talked about our private life with at least two of your friends and that really is not on. But as it is just intuition and based on spying I could not bring it up.
In the moment I was happy to be talking, really talking with her. she shared some stuff I didn't know.
Both of us didn't act as I would EXPECT (sorry cadet). Normally she should have tried to alleiviate any doubts I may of had. And normally I should have said hey WTF are you doing having a friend when everyone is talking about him. Guess I am not operational at DB yet. Doing nothing is so hard. Nothing direct I should say. 180s and other techniques are still being done.

In bed we found ourselves face to face a few inches from each other. I could feel her breath and could see her beautiful face. I wanted so much to touch her, kiss her be with her. But she is not there. Sometimes I would almost risk pushing her away just for a few minutes touching/kissing.

There was v minimal contact during film which took all that I had to not rectify. I was proud to be able to not initiate contact but boy did it take an effort.

Did I mention that it is so hard to do nothing. To carry on as if it is okay to be in an affection/sex starved R. To know some of her friends know (some) about it. Well it is not ok. I do not accept it. But doing nothing feels like I am letting her treat me disrespectfully. Maybe I am just tired today.....

This morning I did a lame effort at cheerleading and said that it was nice to talk last night.

I don't believe she is fully gone but near enough for it to not make much difference. Maybe a gentle (or not so gentle push) will help her wake up and think clearly. I am willing to kick her out of the bedroom (house even). I don't plan to though, at least not before a bomb drops. Early on I would sometimes leave the bed to sleep on the couch a few hours and then go back, never a full night. I know I would sleep better but I am stubborn that it is not me who wants out, so I am not leaving.

In three weeks I am going home (abroad) with my wife. I was so looking forward to that months ago. Now I am not even sure I want her to come. I do but I don't if you know what I mean.

Financially we are not great. We are managing with no debt so far (except mortgage) but I see difficult times coming. I am going to look for my lob options to see if there is something more secure than being self-employed. I won't give up my company easily bit will do so if needs be for my family. I will leave my search on google and if W asks I will say I am looking at my options that are best for my family. I will not specify but may imply alone. This will actually be the case if my wife does not find another job in the next few months. I will also ask her if we can reduce mortgage payments on the anniversary of the loan. This us prudent anyway, but it'll do her no harm to wonder about my motives.

As I took some time this morning to empty my head here, I want to make it up at work. So I will work a little late. I intend to tell W I met an old friend and caught up a bit with him. So I will ACT AS IF until I actually do GAL. Being tired I tend to spend most evenings on the couch with my wife, but I am going to reduce that and do more stuff, with or without her.

Again as usual any feedback, comments or questions are welcome. I will now write a little history of our R, which will hopefully help ye help me.

[roist]

The following post moved to first on the thread will keep this here, as back up


I'll try keep this short, but as ye all know there are no guarantees offered here!

I met my wife in college when we were both 21. She was an exchange student over for a year. She ended up staying 9 years. About 8 years in she asked about moving home to be close the her family. I agreed and took some time to learn the language.

We lived together one year in college (shared with other students) and after college we spent two years living apart due to jobs in different towns. But she came down mid week and I went up every weekend. After that I found a job in the same city and we've lived together since.

When we first met my wife said she didn't want kids or to be married.......... normal at 21. At the time it didn't bother me.......normal at 21. But I eventually did see myself married with kids.

In the first year after we moved, she said she wanted children. I was delighted. We decided to wait until I finished a course. In the meantime I proposed and she accepted, but I knew she would due to subtle hints!

So we got married, had two boys and bought a house. A big part of the deposit came from my redundancy money. I don't regret that but now wish I had kept some. Plus my wife pushed for joint accounts. So now we only have that. Not important yet but could be...

I had a successful well paid job before leaving but with the barrier of the language I didn't try to get the same when we moved. I wasn't overly into it anyway. So it was a new life starting.

All throughout our R my wife has had a lower sex drive than me, but as the years passed the intimacy waned. At least weekly (often more) at the beginning to a few times a month (around marriage). Two pregnancies interrupted that cycle and honestly never came back fully. Though some weeks we did it a few times and then a month or two could pass. Now it is over a year.

I became depressed. The more I was depressed the worse we seemed. the worse we seemed the more I got depressed. This was a vicious circle that lasted probably three years. I was dark and even suicidal (may even have done so if hadn't had my boys). The exact cause of my depression is not certain, but not one specific event.

during this time neither of us was overly happy. About two years ago my wife wrote me a note stating things were not good between us, that she had been depressed when she lost her job and that some parts of her life was not the life she wanted and she had tried everything to improve us. She said she had no solution. Maybe this was my bomb after all. I reacted as best I could at the time, hid behind my depression and wallowed. I did reply to her twice but not like I would now if I had to respond. I think now I wanted her to reach out and help me, but she never did.

Six months after the letter she asked if we could have another child. I was reluctant due to me being depressed, us not being super and not financially secure. I now regret this sorely, not because I think it would save our R, but because since I realised I would love to have another child and to experience everything fully without depression. so it saddens me to think about that and worse still that we are not in a place where we can openly discus such stuff. (I feel I can still tell her anything, but it is not the same.) I did let her know I was willing to have a child but too late. It probably was too late when she asked too, as she admitted. Late as in her age)


I snapped out of my depression last Oct and wanted to save my family. during the depression I was numb and honestly didn't care if she left. I never wanted to leave her. Had I fallen out of love with her. Yes probably. But I now have no doubt that I want her, I love her and that we COULD be happy together. I will not give up on her, us or my family.

Last oct I started a treatment a bit alternative which involved talking and energy manipulation. Regardless of the type of treatment I started it to be better for me and for my family. Part of this unblocked blocked in emotions, which I tended to keep inside.

A few weeks later I got annoyed with my wife constantly texting beside me on the couch and ignoring me. It happened to be her male friend! I put two and two together and came up with fithy three. I read the messages and was mostly harmless day to day blah blah though I was refered to as a grumpy bear. Not nice but not false either. I didn't like it all the same. I misread another message and took up completely other meaning (rereading it I admit that). I told my wife I had to go think about us and her. I said I had read her messages and did not find it appropriate. I left the house. (midnight). I didn't get far and I asked myself if running away would help our situation or if it was what I wanted. I quickly realised (15min) that I loved her, wanted us to work and the best place to do that was from home. I went to the couch (I really am spending too much time with that couch, I notice!) but my wife did not come. So I reread all her messages. She eventually did come and asked if I was coming to bed. I said I was shortly. She added that he was only a friend and she was not going to repeat that and that she was nowhere near ready to forgive me for looking at her phone. I accuse her of an affair and the biggest reaction is about the phone.

In the days that followed I did everything you are not supposed to do. We talked about us. She said she was going nowhere and when pressed if because she wanted to stay or because she had to. Bit of both was the answer. She asked for time and would get back to me. It was never said that she didn't love me, that she wanted out or what specifically she was to get back to me about. At the time I was needy and didn't give her enough space though for me it was a long time.

I continued to spy but there was nothing suspicious but that meant nothing after I had already admitted looking. Sometimes there were small bits about us, generally negative. Looking back her negative texts seemed more specifically about me back then and more about us now (as in its not me its her.... blah blah). Over time I no longer suspected EA and continued reading as a source of info on how she was thinking. How wrong is that?!

Anyway I decided I needed help just before Christmas and I bought a save your marriage program. It had a lot of similarities to DR book but not explained the same way. This helped a lot with my head and gave me the mental strength to tough it out, although I don't always feel strong. This guy suggested that it may be beneficial to let wife know about buying the program as it demonstrated an action. I let it slip. The only reaction was that it was not my place to think for her, as I said I had the feeling she wanted out. I didn't reveal any details of the program and said basically it helped me decide if it was what I wanted and that was it.

I have not discussed our R since February. I no longer need her to tell me what she feels as I have a fair idea anyway. I probably understand better than her at this stage, though I am no expert.

I take heart from the fact that my wife seems to find almost everyone not to her liking. I am not alone, though obviously feel it most. Is it a mlc, I don't know and I don't want to grasp at straws. My wife is unhappy and does seem lost. If there was another man I would probably encourage her to go if that is what she wants. It is hard to see her unhappy and do nothing about it. But she has her own path to follow, hopefully leading to the same place as mine, but not going in the same direction at the moment.

I am sure I have left out loads but that is a lot to digest. Hopefully there is enough clarity in what I have outlined to get feedback.

[roist]

Oh yeah. I didn't mention. Last year my dad got diagnosed with cancer and died a few months later. I had several trips home alone during that time. At the time I felt I was losing both my dad and my wife.

Before my dad got sick we had planned celebrating my 40th there, so 13 of us (mostly her family) went back for that. Problem was we had planned this before hearing about my dad and I didn't celebrate it in the end. Not sure if my wife fully understood that.

When I was away she wasn't happy when I extended my trip. I saw that as being unsupporting, but now realise it was her putting our family first. I did realise then that the boys needed me. Before being depressed I felt detached.

It seemed everything I did wasn't quiet right so it became easier to not try. I felt like an observer in my own life. I have worked a lot on this though apparently still not getting it "quiet right"!

On a side note, my wife wanted us to celebrate my 40th here with her, but I wasn't in the mood, due to it being just over a month after my dad died. I think that was the last straw, or at least the last time we seemed important to her.

The trip in three weeks is for the first anniversary of my dad's passing. I asked my wife to come because I said it was hard last year without her. At the time (feb) I wanted to see if she would or not as a gauge of her willingness. She readily agreed, which I did not EXPECT, but had hoped.

Gotta go work. May be really late home as I spent way more time here than expected, but now ye have my story. Don't lose it Cadet, as I can't afford the time to retype it all again!!

[Cadet]

Don't lose it Cadet, as I can't afford the time to retype it all again!!

OK repeated it in the first post.
Will keep them both just in case!

[roist]

Of all the questions I asked, the one I'd prioritise is if someone can repost about detaching that was posted on my lost thread. Whereas I have read many others, this one resonated best for me. It explained the difference of detaching compared to being cold or distant.

Please don't take this as a snide way of asking why no one I'd answering. It isn't. I know the vets are posting here on their own time and realise it must take loads of time to read each thread and reply to some. That is impressive guys, fair play to ye all.

Have a good weekend.

[Cadet]

Here is another thead that might help you read at least a page of the posts.
Was Sandi2 the one that posted that other idea about?

It explained the difference of detaching compared to being cold or distant.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2450985#Post2450985

[roist]

Could have been candi2 or mrbond. I thoughy at first it was you but i don't remember.. It was copied from an old thread and explained misconceptions about detaching. I will read all of the link you sent me later but at a glance it was not there. I'll read it anyway for info. Thanks

A technical question : is it possible to copy posts or parts of posts and save them as notes somewhere here. I have read some great stuff on other threads and takes me ages to refind it if I want to reread something.

[Cadet]

A technical question : is it possible to copy posts or parts of posts and save them as notes somewhere here. I have read some great stuff on other threads and takes me ages to refind it if I want to reread something.

This is your thread, feel free to copy and paste anything from the forum here.
As long as you remain within the board rules I have no problems with it and even encourage you to take the knowledge of others that have come before.

I will keep looking for you too on that missing post.
I am hoping Sandi2 will stop in here and help us out as I have a feeling it is her post.

Unfortunately as the board has been purged over the years their are things that no longer exist.

[Cadet]

Here is another good thread by Coach who reconciled with his wife Greek, on detachment.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1852615&page=1

Unfortunately Coach is no longer with us and I can't emphasize enough how important is is to take care of ourselves during this time.