My wife and I have been together for almost 20 years, married for almost 13. I'm 37 and she's 36. Two amazing daughters, 8 and 5. We have only been with each other both physically and serious relationship wise.
My wife first dropped the bomb via a letter in May 2014. Said she couldn't be with me anymore, that I had become very angry and negative, that I had refused when she asked for help to fix our marriage via counselling or otherwise, that she doesn't know if counseling would even help because she is so checked out and not feeling the same way about me, she never wanted a divorce but her heart has become numb and stopped loving.
Other than her internal feeling that I can't know, all of the above was true.
It was a huge wake up call to me, like a light switch flipped. I FINALLY SAW it. I was completely oblivious, secure in the fact that, yeah I was unhappy and angry all the time at her, but we were married and things would work themselves out. I had totally taken her for granted and was angry all the time. I can't explain it other than the light switch analogy. I just saw it, and stopped. I was able to see her for the amazing person she was (despite the fact that the house wasn't always clean or all the other millions of little nits I picked constantly).
I would estimate by poor behavior had started right around the time our first daughter was born. Maybe further back, but not as intense. I would be the first to admit that most of the time through our relationship it revolved around me. As in, she was always the one who was just more in love with me than I was with her.
She agreed to stick with me and see what happened. Seemed like things were on the rise, but really she was just acting so I wouldn't be a pouty baby, as I found out later. I finally got it together to begin counselling with her a month or two later.
Things were going along, no real progress one way or the other, but she wasn't leaving, when I snooped on her Facebook one day and discovered that she had been having an EA with a dad at school (let's call him Ron). I knew he was her good friend, but I was so secure in the mythical "us" and "solid marriage" that I never once thought twice about their relationship. In fact, I'd often tell her to have Ron help her with this or that, when I just didn't want to or wasn't interested. Which was a lot (not me pushing her to him, but not being interested).
It hit me like a ton of bricks. Aha, I thought. HERE'S the reason she wants out! I confronted her on it later that day. Without getting in to the dirty details, it did really open us up and was the beginning of what was a climb back (until recently, more on that later).
I also confessed to a porn habit I had, masturbating every night often to the exclusion of making love to her, even when she asked me to. I was in a very unhealthy lifestyle pattern of staying up super late, waking up only as early as I absolutely had to. Usually on the weekends I would sleep in super late, and generally miss out on most of the day that I could have spent with her and the kids, if I'd wanted to. Mostly then I'd just not be interested in doing anything, often just watching sports and whatnot all day. But, hey, I was there, right? (sarcastic)
So, there in a neat bow were the issues that plagued us. Her EA and my porn "addiction". I put that in quotes now because I am not sure that it was truly an addiction, or just a symptom of other issues.
Then, we truly did begin the journey up. I had read DR as well as books by various other authors. I did a complete 180 in so many aspects of my life. Completely stopped consuming porn and masturbating, totally changed my lifestyle and schedule -- getting up early with her and the kids, taking active interests in her interests, etc. We were talking future, going on little weekends trips, trying to figure out how to buy a vacation home, etc. Things were feeling really great. In retrospect it might have been too much, but it felt right and we both seemed to be responding well and seemed really happy. This was about November 14 until (almost) the present.
She wasn't quite back to full "I love you" mode, in fact she still wasn't really saying it. Jumping ahead for a moment, for the first time about a month and a half or so ago she DID actually say on her own, out of the blue. Wow! We were in the clear. Things so great.
The Ron (EA guy) issue had come up time and time again in therapy. She had originally clean broke from him, but as our kids are basically best friends it wasn't really possible, nor did she want to lose him as she was truly a dear friend of hers before any EA stuff started happening. Needless to say, I was uneasy at best about this. I wasn't fully trusting of both her and myself at this point -- her in that she wasn't secretly pining away for him still, and myself that I'd be able to spot it and act on it if she was. It was definitely a control issue on my part, and we discussed that at length in therapy.
I went up and down as far as how I felt about her continuing to see him -- one day would be totally fine with it and trust her (when I told her this her eyes literally welled up with tears because she was so happy and relieved), then the next totally upset by it.
For her part, she had agreed and was more or less keeping up with her end of the bargain -- not going to cut him out my life, but I will be totally transparent with you about it. All texts, interactions, etc. She felt it was ridiculous, but for my sake was OK with doing it. Her always letting me know slowly faded as interaction with him became more and more commonplace, and frankly I was mostly OK with that. I was learning to trust her again. Both her words and her actions indicated no reason not to. And, spoiler alert, that situation is NOT what the gist of this thread is about.
Cut to the last month of us and therapy. We have had 4 sessions since. The first 3 of these had become more and more about what I needed to feel loved, how to fill MY love tank so I could be OK with Ron, how I really wanted her to say I love you back to me. In recent hindsight, classic too much too soon pressure.
Each week I would feel her more and more distant. Not taking my hand like she had been, and more. Just very obviously different.
Finally, the day after the third of those sessions, she just told me she had been feeling more and more DONE. Whoa. I felt as though we had been driving along, maybe fishtailing for the last couple of weeks a little but nothing we couldn't steer out of, and then BLAMMO. Fell off a cliff that I didn't even see up ahead.
She said (and in fairness has been very candid about in therapy) that there were MOMENTS of what she thinks was love here and there, but that the "old love" just wasn't there. And now she wasn't really sure if she was loving ME, or just the circumstances -- that we were planning a future she liked together, working on getting her dream house, I was a good involved dad, etc.
Throughout this, too, she has been very candid that she still isn't/wasn't sure that I really loved her. That I was just too scared of change, too much a creature of habit, to let her go. Both of those things are very true. I'm terrified of life without her quite frankly. But I do love her so much.
I continued my backward slide a bit in terms of all that I had learned. Panicked, snooped again (on and off still throughout all of this, every time I confessed to her and we talked about it), found out (from a text to one of her friends) that she had visited a psychic that dad without my knowledge who had told her that she didn't even need to read her tarot cards, it was screaming off of her that she was DONE. I found another thread to grasp on to, and woke her up in the middle of the night to confront her about this (now obviously almost irrelevant) psychic visit. Quickly followed by me apologizing again.
We are almost up to the present. Thanks for sticking around this long.
So, over the last week I have been doing a lot of soul searching. Leading up to our last therapy appointment (yesterday), I had many moments of clarity(?) about our relationship. Notably, here I was in this burned out shell of a house, with a box of matches in my hands and an empty gas can at my feet. I scooped up the ashes in my arms and said "Here we go, let's rebuild this!"
This much came up at our therapy session yesterday. That I was, at the moment, at peace with letting go. My wife needs to make her own decisions, and I can't do anything about it. She will love me again, or she won't. She will keep sticking it out to work on the marriage, or she won't. She's going to let feeling redevelop and be acted upon with Ron, or she's not. These are all choices that she is going to make on her own.
And I now can see that her getting to the point where she made the decision to end it with me, and to give up everything and more that I have been fearing to give up, was in itself such a huge decision that the relief it offered must have been tremendous. And speak volumes of the pain that she has been enduring for god knows how long.
In short, more clarity that it wasn't all wrapped up in a neat bow with those 2 confessions. I have been up and down with that realization. Sometimes taking total comfort in it and being at peace, then 5 minutes later a mess again.
As of last night, I decided to Google "am I emotionally abusive to my spouse". And, I seemed to be ticking off most of the boxes on the websites I've Googled up. Not all of them, and I know there were good times in there, but damn it's just so hard to remember them now.
It was years and years of ME being... emotionally abusive. I am pretty sure I was. Aloof, unloving, individual, sarcastic, snide, mean, moody.
So now I feel as though we are back at square 1. Or more accurately, that perhaps we never even left square 1 because of this, and that it was just those ashes compacted in to a wall, with only a coat of paint holding it together. Destined to crumble again.
In therapy yesterday she brought up how heavy she sometimes feels it is for her at the house with me there. I'm generally upbeat, just that I am there loving her and she feels bad for not loving me back. Me being kind of needy under the surface, her so not wanting to give me anything. So, for the last week I have been feeling like a separation would be best for both of us.
I don't know if that's the path I should take though. On one hand I am hopeful that time apart could be good, and she can have a break from the heaviness, she can reflect and hopefully see that I am still lovable or that the marriage is worth working on... or something...
On the other hand, I am terrified that she will like it too much. That she will continue hanging out with Ron a lot, those great loving idyllic feelings will rise up, and it will just be another (final?) nail in the coffin of our marriage.
Should I bring up the separation? I would find some place to stay, I wouldn't put her through anything.
The emotional abuse though... I don't even know what to ask about that. I am so genuinely remorseful that I hurt her for so long. I wouldn't blame her in the slightest for never wanting to see me again. It's a testament both to her amazingness, and on the negative side her having grown up with a deeply narcissistic mother and alcoholic father, that I am sure prevented this from coming to a head much sooner.
Thanks for reading. I feel so much better just having typed it. At least for the next 5 minutes.
Me 37,W37 D8,D5 T20 years, M13 years BD-5/14 MC starts (continues)-9/14 EA discovered-10/14 Piecing(?)-11/14-5/14 "I just feel 'done'"-5/15 Trial S (I moved)-6/15/15
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thanks Winhamm, just read and posted on your thread.
Yes, I am all about analyzing and overanalyzing. It's just what I am do that I am trying hard to free myself from. Makes it VERY DIFFICULT to not talk to her about it... to not say something that is a step back, looking for some type of reassurance, or at least "where are we at". Makes it VERY HARD to DB properly.
Which I now see is another reason that moving out seems like it might help ME just as much in letting me DETACH from this, not look over her shoulder, not snoop on her texts, etc. All of which I think would be extremely good for me from a depressurization standpoint.
On the other hand, reading through your thread, I think it was you who was talking about moving out, and either you or someone else mentioned that it was worth looking at to see if that was more of an emotional retreat (in a negative way) than actually good DBing.
I am on both sides of the fence -- it might be good to give us both breathing room.
Or, it might just be me not being able to take the pressure and be patient, get my stress under control, etc. Similar to pressing her for an answer one way or the other (not that I have, just as example) ie. let's just get this over with.
Life [censored] sometimes.
Me 37,W37 D8,D5 T20 years, M13 years BD-5/14 MC starts (continues)-9/14 EA discovered-10/14 Piecing(?)-11/14-5/14 "I just feel 'done'"-5/15 Trial S (I moved)-6/15/15
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I think the MWD advice is to stay in house as long as possible? But given everything you've posted, do it with space, lots of it. Go away so she can miss you.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
I can say in my case, I've had 2 lucky business trips that have taken me away for 2 or 3 days at a time, and I have left for a day or 2 on the weekends as well (at her request, by the way).
So I've been able to give her space while living in the same house.
Do you do individual counseling? I gather from your posts that you may have a very difficult time accessing your feelings. You think much, I suspect you feel little.
Have you been sexually abused?
Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34 D8, S5, D2 T:16, M:9 BD + D: 4/3/2015 EA Confirmed 5/6/2015 Separation under the same roof
Sorry! Can't believe I didn't mention that YES I am in individual counseling as well. Hasn't been long with the current counselor (the first one was not a good fit at all and I took a little break while things were so "good" again).
No sexual abuse.
It sure FEELS like I am feeling! I'm definitely controlling, and I think a lot of the analyzing right now comes from that... The fact that I have no control of my life here. Or rather, trying to find some way to take control of it in a positive fashion.
Or if I'm being totally honest, trying to control the situation to get her to stay. Which is ultimately futile if there's no love and she can't heal from what I have put her through.
I've been thinking of writing her a fulsome apology letter to read at our next counseling session. Admitting the emotional abuse, apologizing, telling her that I totally understand now where her first letter came from, how I stomped all over our relationship. There's no quick fix... if there even is a fix at all. That kind of thing.
Me 37,W37 D8,D5 T20 years, M13 years BD-5/14 MC starts (continues)-9/14 EA discovered-10/14 Piecing(?)-11/14-5/14 "I just feel 'done'"-5/15 Trial S (I moved)-6/15/15
Yes I need to go away. Kind of thought I'd see if I could stay with a friend for a while. Does that qualify or does it have to be a trip somewhere?
Me 37,W37 D8,D5 T20 years, M13 years BD-5/14 MC starts (continues)-9/14 EA discovered-10/14 Piecing(?)-11/14-5/14 "I just feel 'done'"-5/15 Trial S (I moved)-6/15/15
Is your apology letter an attempt to control the situation?
PS space is space. Doesn't matter where you go.
You really need to be careful though because leaving for extended periods may affect your final custody arrangements, it may tweak abandonment fears on her end, and it could have a negative impact on your kids.
Last edited by Winhamn; 05/06/1501:47 PM.
Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34 D8, S5, D2 T:16, M:9 BD + D: 4/3/2015 EA Confirmed 5/6/2015 Separation under the same roof
