Zelda - almost there

[Zelda09]

gg, let me see if I can explain a bit. What the dynamic was.

My IC says there is no doubt in her mind that H played me - certainly
when he came home - whether he knew it at what level. Who knows how
long before that (wasn't he unemployed when he proposed?)- and when I
gave her details of the breakfast convo, she asked, how is this really
different than that first conversation when he pushed you off the dock
years ago?

We looked at it. It seems so final on his part now, but follows the
same pattern from ages ago:

I set strong boundaries, told him i wouldn't stand for the behavior.
Broke up with him that day. I wrote him the next day about how upset
I was, what is wrong with you?
He put it back on me that I made him insecure, but admitted the action
was wrong, said something pretty about our relationship. (No apology.)
I told him I loved him and was frustrated.
He said it was for the best, but he had loved me.
I denied believing that it was for the best.
He said he just needed time to process.
Acted jovial and just fine, pleasant, and made sure to be around
mutual friends where I would see him over the next several days. I see
him acting well-adjusted and I think, well, maybe I'm the one that is
messed up on this.
We ended up meeting, hashing things out, and after I recognized where
he was coming from and how I could have been less flirty...he
acknowledged his temper and said he would not get out of hand again.
We end up back together. The feeling I had was that it was what he
wanted to happen but just wouldn't come out and say it until I gave
enough positive signals. I accept this.

(^ this makes me nauseous now.)

Rinse and repeat about 3 times for violence or other serious violation
of trust throughout last six years. I am blamed for looking in his
phone in the first place. For pushing him when I could see he was
getting upset. Rinse and repeat, minus the break up part, for about 10
times a year for various fights. I always had to see his point of view
and admit being in the initial wrong, go to him, but this was the
pattern. He always was quick to suggest we split up in the middle of a
fight, or this wasn't working.

What was the point of such a game? Power. Over time I lost ground. We
had, after all, agreed that I did have all kinds of faults, I was
confrontational, independent, too direct, not in touch with my
feelings or his, he was a 'gentle creature that couldn't handle me,'
that I needed to be more considerate of. I doubled down on these
efforts when he came home. The consequence was his temper or
withdrawal if I poked him in the wrong place where there was
insecurity or was upset about anything myself. So, on the outside he
got to look like a meek man living with a domineering, forceful woman,
but inside I felt like less and less confident of anything and stepped
around him and all his issues as much as I could until I couldn't and
god forbid I got upset about anything, he got verbally abusive and
nasty.

When things were going well, he got increasingly needy and randomly
helpless - and if I protested, I suffered consequences. (And his PTSD
/driving inability he'd had for a year and a half goes away magically
after we break up, I see him speeding around the parking lot and watch
him pull into a spot like Dale Earnhardt that Sunday.)

IC said the breakfast I described followed the same pattern and she
believed he was banking on me breaking down and claiming fault for it
all. Otherwise, why would he hang out for two hours and play word
salad with me if he was so intent on getting on with his life? The
calm, detached, rational style he engaged with while making
contradicting statements or outrright psychoanalytical f with your
head kind of stuff.

She believes it's why he ultimately backed out of signing because he's
still playing. This time I didn't apologize or give him any room or
validation, and so he hasn't won yet?

Did it mean any part of him actually wants in this marriage still?
No... she doesn't think so. He was never truly eager in the past,
always me pulling him along. But now that he has some means, she sees
that he doesn't have much use for me and isn't romantically interested. But he's not ready to give up
whatever he gets out of this either. It's a game he plays, a long
game, she's not sure he understands the objective of.
Him toying to toy. As long as I'm willing or initiating contact.

So I have to figure out why I was so willing to play this game all
these years, hoping to fix this dynamic so we could live happily ever
after. That's my big project. I always thought he was a little messed
up with communication/defensiveness, but I took these conversations as
him actually being open to self improvement, change, we're perfecting
our communication, this is just the 'work' in a relationship...I
thought he was a good person and worth all the excuses I wanted to
make to be with him, because he was so great and kind and supportive
otherwise.

Even after breakfast that day, I felt worn down and like there was a
fog that stayed with me that made me feel like he was a loving partner
and I'd just been too much for him.

I'm thinking I need to reach out to him to ask if he's had someone
look over those papers, but I'm dreading how upsetting contact is to
me right now. It's like I don't want interaction until I can just not
be affected by him anymore. If love is a drug, this one was
particularly addictive. I feel like someone who wants to dry up being
faced with one last binge in order to do that.

I'm so convinced I married a sociopath. every
day of distance and perspective I get on all of it is pretty
disturbing to me.

[Ggrass]

Rinse and repeat for 11 years plus asult from of a minor which was my fault.

Why because I would not fight with him when he picked it.
He felt it is his right to injure a minor albeit 15 yo child these days with one punch laws, he could have kill my son.

Yet, h is stil, the victim and me the a fault party even with cheating asult h is e victim. I wore the lot, and took it on board.

It's not about you zelda, nor because of you.
Mine treats the ow with exactly the same disrepectful manners, that he won't toterate in others. It's all over thier fb, poor woman has no idea what she has signed up for.

She's an awesome judge of character and h is lovely.
H described ow as "nice" people who behave in narc ways need nice!

It makes me laugh, now seeing the games he plays with others. It's all game nothing about the person of love or care.

[Ggrass]

He needs you to stay involved hence the word salad trying to keep you in the game.


He wants some of the "nice" in his warped way he gets from zelda the power and the I'm good because your bad. Don't play. Let the L play.

[Zephyr]

Zelda, you have been through a lot over the years...no question in mind. You are going though a $hit-storm right now. I have to ask if you have assured yourself Physical safety? It turns my stomach and boils my blood to hear about domestic violence, whether it is full blown or borderline..in my mind there is no difference and it is CROSSING THE LINE. Clearly you h needs help, but that us out of your hands, right? You can break this cycle and feeding whatever this thing that has grown. You have an opportunity to Free yourself of this.

[Vanilla]

Z

The difference now is that you broke the cycle. You applied an intervention and H still wants the old pattern.

H needs the old pattern. Look Z is a strong person, and I am stronger than Z. That makes me an amazingly wonderful person. So H wants and needs to rinse and repeat. Z does not.

Z you are brave as brave as Gg. Facing up to and acknowledging this is a really big change.

I really want Z to put her energy into Z, TLC. Real TLC extreme self care. Z, your journey and your enormous courage is very important here on the board. Abuse in various forms should be voiced. None of this is your issue in H, you did not cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it. It's H and his crappola to sort. Like waywardness this one is a deal breaker for an M. With physical abuse I say get safe.

I for one am relived that you can not now unknow, you can detach and observe.

Gg is much further along the journey than me, and both of you have had this for much longer in your life than I have. So I take Gg and what she says very seriously, when I first arrived Gg was an early visitor and in her very tell it like it is said "V that is abuse, my H was like that with me". I could then never not know.

So Z you can still stand for your M for yourself. If H will make the changes then it is possible, but takes a long time and a lot of work.

V

[Zelda09]

Thanks, V. There is a part of me that wants H good points to be true and hopes he is not the soulless person I feel his actions show - but a guy that just had enough of me and once loved me. I always knew the driving thing was an act, deep down. Last July I wrote in my journal that I thought that and other things were building to a move for D.

I hate that part of me right now that still hopes. I want to stand for my M but I believe it will result in only more drawnout grief for me if I do. I broke the cycle, and like you said earlier, he is being rewarded and not punished. He did not want in this marriage. I am already embarrassed I begged him not to sleep with other people until the divorce papers final. I am embarrassed I beg him to talk to other people about this and to try to reflect.

I don't think that I actually want him. I don't think that I respect him, but I miss the idea of our M with all its history hopes and dreams. I miss feeling loved by someone I used to think was so special, whom I loved. The rejection is hurting and upsetting, I think I hope because I want the man who left me feeling discarded and kicked to pick me up and tell me it never really happened. I want to not feel worthless but that is in my hands now, not his power over me. I want to feel like I didn't cause him to feel this, that I wasn't at fault, but I no longer believe DR applies here. Our M just looked like work to him and he no longer needed me.

Maybe tomorrow I will contact him and ask if he is ready to sign the agreement and D papers.

[Ggrass]

The nicest thing anyone said to me is its ok to grieve.

Cry pitch a fit. What ever you need to get it out and process it all. Hey I still have an odd moment. It's been 14 month sep and a year nc. Almost to the day this week.

Do what you need, bear in mind there is no right or wrong answers. Just what you need.

[edz]

Yup, what GG said.

I did use councilling and boy did it help, not just on sitch but dealing with major depression that had been affecting me for years and hadnt been dealt with.

But I still use the empty room technique, stand walk, talk as if the WAS is there vent the why's the whats, what you did what they did, colour of the cushions. Let all of it out.

I found when it then came time to talk to w I had things in a reasonable state in my head and could talk without bursting into the emotional state I was in at the begining. I know our sitches are different Z but still raging at an empty room is so much better than making a pressure cooker in your mind.

Take it easy

Edz

[Zelda09]

Edz, I think I will try this. I hadn't heard of it.
Gg, I can't say I'm glad to know it still hurts, even when it's all laid out. It's like I keep thinking that with enough understanding of what happened or truth, the hurt will go away.

[Zelda09]

To contact him about signing, or not. That is the question.

It had been important to me that he initiated and did all of this.

Now, knowing what I do, it feels like too much to endure that he is married trying to get laid and happy as a clam with his outcome.

What would the waiting actually do for me? Give me the satisfaction that he finally carried out what he wanted?