Susana (9) - I'm tired

[Starsky309]

Cadet,

I am reading that ^^ as either EA or PA. That is the strict definition of infidelity. In Susana's case, there's no OW.

Starsky,

Originally Posted By: susana4


I am still a bit confused by this tbh. Cadet, I know you explained to me awhile ago about infidelity existing, even in the mind. Which makes sense.

But in terms of setting a boundary it seems clear-cut if there's an OP: "I will not be in a marriage with a third party"

But it doesn't seem like you (I) can say: "I will not be in a marriage with an imaginary third party" Lol!


"I will not be in a marriage where my needs are not being met."

Here ^^^, while your LOVE for this person might be unconditional, you're saying that REMAINING IN A MARRIAGE WITH THEM, when your own needs are not being met, is a dealbreaker. It -- having your needs met -- IS a 'condition' of remaining in the marriage.

Is it a real dealbreaker? Marriages, as you know, go through cycles where there will be some dry spells and/or spouses may really dislike each other. Does that mean that one's needs are not being met in that scenario? Oh boy...a boundary has been broken! Let's call in the Hazmat team! C'mon.

It may mean a certain way to one person and for another person a whole different set of parameters. Mind you, I am not talking about EA or PAs here.

For instance, a wife knows that her H is a man of few words and given to rare displays of affection. She's, by all accounts, happily married and demonstrates complete acceptance of who her H is...not what he should be as a H. This woman has deliberately chosen to remain in the marriage knowing that not ALL of her needs will be met.

This is where one makes some trade-offs in an ever evolving M.

No?

If that's all it were, I would agree with you Wonka. I see Susana's needs (and sorry to talk past you like you're not here, Susana LOL) -- rightly or wrongly (and I'm on record as telling her if *I* were her husband, I would feel somewhat pressured/smothered/nothing's-good-enough) -- as being something her husband is some combination of unwilling or unable to provide.

And I see her husband as an emotionally immature, runs-from-commitment, guy who hasn't even BEGUN to do the work.

I've only come to know Susana recently, and only thru what she posts here. And everything we know about her husband is filtered thru the "Susana filter" as well. So is this just a rough patch they're going thru, and has her husband been able to meet her ENs earlier in the marriage and would she be truly happy with him if he'd return to that? I can't answer that. I was only saying that I think "Love is unconditional" is the kind of lead-with-your-feelings claptrap that wayward spouses feel, and it's not the underpinning of a healthy marriage. A healthy marriage is one where each LOVES each other unconditionally, but each has a healthy set of boundaries of what they are -- and are not -- willing to put up with in the marriage.

Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.


Starsky

[Wonka]

Starsky,

I can see where you're coming from.

To me, I think Susana's H is struggling with the transitions of a 'normal' marriage given that he's 28 years old.

I remember having a little wobble (way before my MLC) after Ms. Wonka and I moved in not realizing that it was a natural progression of a long-term marriage/partnership. I worked through it and recognized that we were experiencing a transition from being grad students to card-carrying working taxpayers (read, "I'm finally a real grown up!").

In this regard, I think that Susana needs to be her H's wingman and show him the way.

Yah...Susana is in the room while we talk around her while she lies prostate on the operating table.

[Cadet]

Cadet,I am reading that ^^ as either EA or PA. That is the strict definition of infidelity. In Susana's case, there's no OW.

I totally understand that there is NO OW and my point exactly is that their still can be infidelity or betrayal, especially if he has said

ILYBINILWY, which is what I am assuming has happened in Susanna's case.

Personally my ex had no affair partner, so
even though she divorced me does that mean their was
no infidelity?
That was the ultimate breach of marital boundaries, JMHO!

[claire7]

^^^ this is the position I believe I'm in too. It definitely still feels like a betrayal. One could argue it's worse....there was no one in particular he wanted more than me...he just didn't want me.

[susana4]

Omg! I go away for dinner with a friend and look at all that happens to me on the operating table!

Let me try and clarify quickly a few things while I wait for the bill.

H never said ILYBINILWY. He said he's still in love with me, and still attracted to me, that he doesn't want to be with anyone else nor does he want me to. He just "doesn't feel like himself"

I do believe he met my ENs. Perhaps we were just still in the honeymoon stage so I'd think that but I do believe he did. I would happily return to my "old M" if it were a possibility. I know we are supposed to build a new M, with our spouse or with someone else, that's healthier, but I actually really loved my M. It was by far the best R I ever had. And I felt really loved and like my needs were met. I don't know if I met his!

Maybe I don't understand ENs but I think my primary LL are PT and QT. We had regular date nights and spent most weekends together. We tried new activities together a lot and went on holiday regularly. H was extremely affectionate and we ML regularly (and it was very good), held hands all the time, and cuddled every day. We touched each other a lot throughout the day in passing. It's only now I realise just how important PT is to me and I think more and more its my primary language. H was also very generous with WOA and very supportive of everything I wanted to try. We argued a lot more than we should have, over ridiculous things, like whose turn it was to make the coffee... I didn't think it was detrimental to our M because they were so small but now I wish i had been less argumentative.

[DeeDeelynn52]

For both partners, unconditional love means putting the health of the relationship above all else. This is a conscious decision made by both people, and it requires . . .

regular and open communication;
active and engaged listening skills;
a willingness to calmly express concerns or hurts;
a willingness to make behavior adjustments that don’t compromise your boundaries;
a willingness to communicate boundaries;
the ability to accept and even embrace personality differences that don’t compromise the health of the relationship;
a willingness to continue to work on your own self-awareness and self-esteem;
complete trust that your partner “has your back” and you have theirs;
the ability to forgive and forget, especially when forgiveness is requested for flaws and failures and there’s a real effort to make change;
the firm commitment never to withhold love (or sex or money, etc.) to get what you want or need;
the desire to express your love with small daily actions and words;
the decision to let go of the “small stuff” that might bug you so you can focus on the best aspects of your partner;
the willingness to show extra love and have patience with your partner when they go through periods of difficulty, sadness, or disconnection, knowing it’s a short-lived condition;
loving the other for the joy of loving, without thought for what you will get in return.
Unconditional love is more intricate and complicated than simply loving your partner “no matter what.” Unconditional love requires stepping back and seeing the bigger picture of your partnership and how to maintain the health of the relationship so that love can continue to thrive and grow.

The first step toward loving your partner unconditionally is learning to love yourself unconditionally. It requires understanding and communicating your own boundaries and limits, yet being flexible enough to adapt and compromise when possible.

And most of all, it requires a daily mutual commitment to maintaining the health of the relationship and nurturing the bonds of love that brought you together in the first place.

[Starsky309]

DeeDee,

That was a beautiful post. Do you have a link to your sitch?


Starsky

[Vanilla]

I had better stop thinking about Liam and cheese then

V

[susana4]

I can't for the life of me remember who recommended the Rendezvous video of driving a Ferrari through the streets of Paris but THANK YOU, you are brilliant!

It was me and you are welcome, it has been a while since I have been called brilliant. Inside most men is a little boy that likes loud noises and to drive fast.

I think you vacation is coming at a really good time for the both of you. You seem to be getting eager about your R and creating some expectations for your H. The time away should allow you to miss each other and get some time to clear your head.

I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in the DB process that we forget about all that life has to offer us. I was very guilty of this and put too much time and effort into saving my M instead of living life and also trying to save the M.

Have a great time in Romania.

Gogofo this got lost in all the conversation over my operating table. But I wanted to say thank you! And I should have known it was you, since you seem to be inside my H's head sometimes.

I think you're right about the vacation coming at the right time. I am really looking forward to the chance to get away from everything, relax and clear my mind. Not that I can't do that here, but I think it will be a heck of a lot easier in a completely new place on my own.

[susana4]

Vanilla who is this Liam bloke???

Like Starsky said, thanks sharing your thoughts Dee, that was lovely