Wife during deployment EA/PA ongoing #4

[RysinMn]

So atm I am at the say nothing do nothing stage, I believe I just need time to sit back and regroup myself. And just look out for me without any outlying stressors. Thanks again everyone.

[RysinMn]

I have a few questions regarding how i am feeling at this moment and my actions.

is it normal not to want to see my W at all, I am not angry with her, or resentful. I do feel sorry for her in a sympathetic sort of way not sure why either. But i just feel like i want to avoid her at all costs right now. I do miss her more than anything but i still do not want to see her. does that make any sense. Next question W is not moved out of the house, she is staying with a friend but all her things are still at house. This does not allow for a complete seperation in my opinion kinda allows her to keep her eggs in two baskets. Should i be worried about this or should i take steps to have all her things removed from house. its a tough thing because i dont want to talk to her right now, any ideas or should i just let it be?

[Starsky309]

I do think you should take steps for her to get her things. Or just kindly let her know you've neatly boxed them up for her and have them in secure storage.

I'd welcome others' thoughts on this.


Starsky

[RysinMn]

I am starting to feel that as well after the ultimatum of either i lift the NC or She will D me, i think that i need to begin taking steps to either find my own place or move her things out, but maybe i am wrong in this thought.

[25yearsmlc]

I have a few questions regarding how i am feeling at this moment and my actions.

is it normal not to want to see my W at all, I am not angry with her, or resentful. I do feel sorry for her in a sympathetic sort of way not sure why either. But i just feel like i want to avoid her at all costs right now.

That's^^ normal, imo, b/c at the very least, you'll have a lot less stress.

I do miss her more than anything but i still do not want to see her. does that make any sense.

Next question W is not moved out of the house, she is staying with a friend but all her things are still at house. This does not allow for a complete separation in my opinion kinda allows her to keep her eggs in two baskets.

I feel as if your anger (or passive aggression?) is coming out here^^ b/c it's not as if you are tripping over her things, are you?

Just Hide the photos of you two if you need to, but the idea that you MUST ditch her stuff, seems pretty fast and pretty reactive, doesn't it?

Try your best NOT to be reactive in this situation.

It does NOT strike me as "cake walking" either so before you go down that road, think more. Is her stuff being OUT of her reach really such an advantage to her?

I think it's the opposite. She has things she NEEDS but cannot get to without dealing with you. Plus, there is an underlying feeling of displacement by not having your stuff.

It could be helpful of you, and detached, if you could box up what you believe she would most need but I don't sense that you are authentically there.

Know what I mean? Have you read the Div Busting books b/c I can't tell.

IF NOT please do so asap.

IF SO, then can you tell us what your GAL and 180s are? Other than the deployment, what were the marital issues?

As an Army veteran myself (deployed to Persian Gulf in the first Gulf War) and as the wife of a veteran/reservist (h was deployed in 2012) -

I think I can speak to something your w mentioned that you sort of glossed over.

SHE ASKED you not to go and you did NOT have to go. You volunteered, despite her pleas to the contrary.

You claimed that she came around to the decision you made. But to me, it sounded as if she just gave up, b/c she knew you were going to go no matter what she said or did.

I also think her comments and her fears were, for HER, an SOS she was sending you, to NOT go. Maybe at some level, she feels she warned you...??

Some women, particularly those without children or rewarding careers that occupy their time, JUST cannot make a long term separation work. This is especially true when their h's deploy voluntarily.

I'm NOT defending ^^that, I'm just saying it.

Can you see how SHE might have actually felt hurt by your choice? it does not sound like a "marital decision" but rather, it was something she was forced to deal with and boy, she did not deal with it well.



Should i be worried about this or should i take steps to have all her things removed from house. its a tough thing because i dont want to talk to her right now, any ideas or should i just let it be?

Well, what can you handle? So much depends on that.


Also, the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.

The airing of dirty laundry is NOT in keeping with DB (read the books to know why) and I happen to agree with that position.

Starsky feels differently, & so you have different opinions on it.

Can you tell us what your wife would say if SHE were here, talking about the marriage?

What issues might SHE believe you could work on? That will help us to help you, to know what you consider valid for your own work.

Also, as a former JAG Officer, here's a thing about the Code of Military Justice for you...

"Conduct unbecoming" only applies to officers. (No such crime about NCOs exists, even if the film "A Few Good Men" said so).

Adultery is still a crime, but I never saw it prosecuted by itself, in courts martial. It was only charged when it was combined with other acts, like extortion or bribery.

It's not exactly a career enhancer however, (a letter of reprimand is possible) and steps will usually be taken to keep parties apart if they are likely to get violent.

Your command will need to know you can keep it together and thus, compartmentalization becomes mandatory.

Stay strong. Become a man only a fool would leave.

That will always be the best choice for you to make.

[RysinMn]

25yearsmlc,
There is a lot less stress that is true, as far as the discussion about her things in the house i was just curious how to handle everything i was not implying that i wanted to throw them out maybe i was not clear i appologize for that. She chose OM and i am left in the house. she still comes and goes as she wants with our dogs staying with me. though we do not have many interactions, for a little while things seemed to be getting better as far as just being cordial with one another. I have hid all our pictures and not touched anything else of hers. her closets are still full and i even still do the little bit of laundry she brings by somedays.

since the seperation i have taken up cooking, learning the guitar, finished completing my Advanced Open Water Cert. i'm going to concerts, camping and weightlifting. I stopped helping her fix the vehicle or her scooter, i am taking steps to seperate our finances and cell phones.

When W asked me not to Deploy This was not a Gloss over we talked about it daily for about a month. Where i was before the deployment and where i needed to be could only be achieved through deployment points. She did beg me not to go at first then we started looking at the positives and we decided together though now hind sight 20/20 she just agreed to agree. i see that now and it breaks my heart that i could not see that then. If she would have said anything like i dont think we will make it through this deployment or i'm not strong enough to be here that long without you. i NEVER I REPEAT NEVER WOULD HAVE gone! I believed we were rock solid. Prior my Deployment we had what i thought and everyone else thought was the perfect marriage. She was my best friend, camping buddy, workout partner, everything!

I realized as soon as i got on that plane to fly over the pond, that i should never have sought the deployment. But i was stuck.

I did not want to air her laundry out there, but we were reading a book and trying to follow the plan that was laid out, and i was going to follow it to the T because i didnt know what else to do. Her idea was more fluid she would pick and chose what she wanted to do, work on, what she would give up. Our first plan was for her to cut all ties and contact with OM for a month, she stopped talking to him but did not avoid seeing him on her extra caricular time where they both teach gymnastics.

Plan B was to be completed if plan a could not work. Plan B was for the betrayed spouse to leave and cut all ties with the wayward spouse. instead she said she could no longer stay in the house alone after doing it for 10 months. i understood that and so i stayed she went to stay with a friend and split her time with OM. We have two dogs so she would still come by the house. she asked to make a set time so she could come by but not see me, so i agreed. I thought i was working on Plan B rather well but she read the book too and believes that plan be is for me to just leave her alone to find herself with OM. Kinda like expecting me to give her permission to be with another man while staying married to me.

ATM the Airforce has issued a NC on OM stemming from the emails and texts i submitted to the Airforce IG. W did not take this very well, actually she called it the ultimate betrayal. and said plan be could not be completed if the NC stayed in place on OM. she has really gotten mean and angry on this subject. very hateful and demanding. i have thought about lifting the NC and just telling her this is not working for me anymore either. I do not want a D but i realize that i now have to let her go. The reason i feel sorry for her is that even though she is wayward, it is obvious she is not doing ok, and she is struggling internally, and hurting I still love her and cant just turn that part off. But i know there is nothing that i can do to fix it. She has to find her way out of this with or without me in her life.

At this moment W does not want to work on M actaully resorted to threatening me with D this past saturday if i didnt lift NC on OM, So I am struggling with fact that if i dont lift NC she is going to D me, and i would have forced her hand. But then if i do lift the NC i am not staying true to myself and what i stand for. But can i truly let her go and maintain the NC on OM at the same time?

From what IG explained to me the Airforce has regulations that govern how their NCO's have to conduct themselves and even though they are not punishable under UCMJ the Airman can still get in trouble if he breaks the NC because its a cammand directed order. And that is punishable under UCMJ.

If W was here talking about the sitch she would say that i really hurt us by how i handled the entire sitch from the begining. She believes that i have done everything in the attempt to hurt her and manipulate her into getting what i want. Those words are straight from her mouth. She would say that if i would have stepped back not pursued, snooped, and just let her have her space to think things might have been better. Again hind sight 20/20 i would have reacted far differently than what i did. We are 6 months into this affair. She believes she loves him and our marriage is dead. she says she loves me but too much bad has happened to fix it. I do not believe that but i cannot change her mind. i can only better myself and hope that one day she see's the truth.

Thank you so much for your input and insite it is greatly appreciated. Sorry for such a long response. I do understand that i have blame in this for not acknowledgeing the most important needs of my W, my partner and best friend. Instead i worried about future financial stability. One lesson i wish i would have never had to learn.

[Train]

She believes that i have done everything in the attempt to hurt her and manipulate her into getting what i want. Those words are straight from her mouth. She would say that if i would have stepped back not pursued, snooped, and just let her have her space to think things might have been better.

Rysin, what would W's complaints about your M have been before she decided to betray you and sleep with another man??

Please allow me to be clear about something: EVERY cheater will rewrite marital history once they're cheating. My H, the first time he cheated, had been "miserable" the entire time we'd been together ... even though he had 18 months of dating me to decide he didn't want to marry me ... and then 18 months of being married to me BEFORE he left me the first time because he was "so miserable" the entire time he'd known me.

He returned to our M after being S for four months. We were together for more than eight years after that. And then he cheated again, claiming he had been "miserable all 10 years of our M." He even looked at my grown daughters and asked: "What? Do you think I should stay miserable for the rest of my life???" (FTR, he came back after only TWO months of S that time and has been back since.)

And I know you were assuming up there what your W might say if she could tell us her complaints of your M - because that's essentially what 25 asked of you - but you said she wouldn't have wanted you to pursue or snoop.

I mean, duh. Of course she didn't want you to snoop. What cheating spouse wants to be busted? Of course she didn't want you to pursue. She'd rather have run off into the sunset with her lover.

I'll ask you to assume, too, but I'm going to ask you to narrow down your assumptions a bit: What are W's marital complaints - PRE-AFFAIR - that sting? Has she offered any?

[Train]

As for the way to handle separating your belongings, I'm torn because I'm trying to separate my experience from yours.

After I told H to leave our home because he continued to disrespect me in front of our children - and he showed he didn't want to end his A - I packed his belongings (neatly) in boxes, put them on the front porch and let him know he could pick them up at his convenience. If I had it to do all over again? I'd do the same thing.

But if you take more of the "RobX approach" that Starsky posted the other day? I don't know. Like, it's a tougher stance, to be sure. But it's softer in its own right, too. (It's also causing me terrible belly-aching about that NC order once Starsky wrote about the approach ... and how it's different - in some fundamental ways - from what I'd normally think you should do.) And if you embrace THAT approach, I'd have half-a-mind to think the best thing you could do is also drop the NC order.

I am not at all qualified to direct you on that. I'll defer to Starsky; he DID already mention that he'd advise you to keep quiet about it and HOPE that W doesn't mention it in the event you decide to go with that approach.

But I just thought I'd offer that I've really gone back-and-forth about your situation the past week since reading Starsky's thoughts about the different approaches. And even *I* am confused about the best one for you ... and how to handle that NC order if you commit to the one approach.

I think it's something that needs to be talked about and debated THOROUGHLY before you do it. But I have to be honest: it's really been gnawing at me.

[RysinMn]

Train,
She actually said that she was the happiest woman and luckiest woman in the world pre-deployment. she even said that she was head over heels drop dead in love with me during R&R in June. By august she met him, and by october she felt she loved him. Thought that she must not have loved me as much as she believed. what i just said above is what i found in her emails when i was snooping and it was addressed to herself.

Now she says that she never really let me in during our entire marriage and that she never loved me as much as she thought. She even tried to go so far as to write down things that annoyed her that i did and she wrote one thing. Leaves toilet seat up at night. "I admit i do that sometimes. , other than that we learned how to communicate very well pre-deployment, arguments actually were constructive, even when a blow up happened we were able to step back take a breath and come back and compromise together. So i really don't know for sure. I know at one time in our relationship i had gained a bit of weight from injury, but for the most part i kept myself fit, i was always attentive to her needs. when asked if i fulfilled her most needed emotional needs she said yes, without a doubt he did. that is why i am so destroyed over this, i thought we were perfect in every way. I do know her two most important needs are intimate conversations and sexual attention. And it is really hard to fulfill those while gone for 10 months. its just a tough spot to ask anyone to be in i know that.

[RysinMn]

is it bad etiquette to post emails on here. i will of course remove names. but i just received an email from wife and i want a females take on it. and of course anyone else that has a take. from how i read it, it comes across as kinda manipulation because she did not get the result she wanted from me the last few days. i have stopped all como so far. for 4 days straight she has been prodding me to decide if i am going to drop the NC. first its was trying to sway me by saying she wanted to work on me and her, but she needed clarity and as long as she couldnt find clarity she couldn't work on us, then came the D threats if i didnt drop the NC, and now this. please feel free to weigh in everyone.