This can't be the end! #2

[MrBond]

All of our spouses said the same thing to us at some point. Read the book. It'll be an eye-opener.

From what it seems like, your W is in a typical MLC. She's about at the right age. What have you been doing for yourself to get your "swagger" back?

[Mozza]

Barry, you're right: your sitch is not special. You might not have tried to suggest that it is, not consciously, but you decided that your sitch was over based on one text. One banal text that every vet has received and worst. People who R have gone through restraining orders, moves abroad, divorces, custody fights, screaming, family involvement, etc. You receive one text and you're out. Maybe you're not cut out for this and that's fine. No one here is pushing you to stay in your M. No one will judge you.

But if you want to save your M, you will need an attitude adjustments. You will need to realize that no one can predict the future, especially not the two of you who are D after 20 years of M and four kids. Unless that was the plan all along?

You will need to learn to weather these pronouncements. There will be many more. Your WAW will seek a sense of liberation from your M, so she will take many steps that will look like the end of it. And it might turn out to be, but you just don't know that today. Especially not based on one text.

I'm sorry if my post sounded hopeless, but my W is so stubborn, I really don't think she'll change her mind. She'll see it as a form of weakness that she "backed down" after telling anyone who would listen that we're splitting up. It may not be hopeless, but it sure seems that way.

Barry, did your W tell everyone she was getting married twenty years ago? Did she ever change her mind on this? Well, I think she just did. So tell me again: how stubborn is she? Is she only stubborn in your mind when it fits your pessimistic narrative?

I suggest you read a couple of success stories. See the top of my threads. It's not the usual one-paragraph thanks-for-saving-my-M, it's links to the original threads where you see people going through every stage. Then you will realize what you and your W got yourself into at BD.

You can also continue to follow my sitch where I sometimes explain why I remain steadfast.

Finally, DB is about saving yourself while going through D. You will not lose anything by following DB through it. You will gain guidance, support, composure, pride, and energy. You GAL to be happy, you detach because you have no other choice. You remain cordial with your W because the alternative is not helping you. You set boundaries and avoid controlling because it's the only right you got.

Perhaps it would help you if you imagined the complete arc of your R, starting from now. How would it happen? Do you imagine, tomorrow, receiving flowers with an apology letter and renewing your vows in April? If not, what are the steps you see ahead on the path to R?

Perhaps it's a good thing that you feel it's over because it will help you detach. If so, then good. But if it means you'll stop DB, with all that it implies, that's when you might get into more trouble than it's worth.

Again, if you want to abandon, nobody will judge you.

[Train]

Everyone's right, Barry.

I've had TWO BDs, eight years apart. And H said the VERY SAME THINGS both times:

"I am NOT coming back."
"Our M is OVER."
"I've been miserable for 10 years!"
"I don't want to BE here anymore."
"I don't love you anymore."
"I've NEVER been in love with you."
"I never wanted to marry you."

He was even more emphatic during/after BD2, saying he just KNEW he had made a mistake coming home the first time; in fact, he said he only came home after BD1 "out of convenience." And he said, after BD2, that there was NO WAY he'd make that "mistake" again. He may have had to "learn his lesson twice," but he had "REALLY" figured out "THIS time" that he was NOT going to stay M to me!!

And guess what, Barry? 2.5 months after making all those grand proclamations - 2.5 months after he SWORE he would never come back to our M and our family - he was ... wait for it ... back home. (It's been almost a year since BD2, and our M is happier - and STRONGER - than ever. It's been a hard, curvy, bumpy road, but we're committed to walk it together.)

I'm glad you're reading your book; it will help the things we've been telling you make more sense.

Man up, Barry.

[Barry]

I've just had such a hard time the last few days. I was sad and upset.
I know there are many people here have much worse sitch's than mine, so I didn't mean to belittle anyone else. I haven't seen my kids for a few days, they're all busy with their own lives and their friends. I text them and ring them often, but it just got to the point earlier that it felt I'd lost everything. My wife, my home, my kids, my dog, my car, my life.

I'm sorry I vented my sadness here.

I walked round to see my daughter, she was the only one home (my W was in obviously) but I just saw my daughter out in the street. I miss everything about my life, not the one from any point last year, but before all this started happening...the good times. They weren't that long ago.

I will read the book, and no Mozza, I won't be chucking the towel in just yet.

I'll be back.

Barry

[MrBond]

"I'm sorry I vented my sadness here. "

Never apologize for this. Go ahead and vent away. This is the place to do it and not in front of your spouse.

[Train]

^^^ Exactly.

That's why we are here.

We are also here to give you a word of encouragement (a swift kick in the rear) when you need it.

Hang in there! Do something fun!

[Mozza]

Barry, I encourage you to look at how you communicate. You express your desires and emotions in very indirect and perhaps manipulative ways.

When you say "It's over" in fairly dramatic fashion over a text, is it possible that you want to say "This makes me feel sad", "I hope this does not mean it's over" or even "Please tell me that it's not over"?

When you write "I'm sorry I vented my sadness here" is it really what you mean? Do you see anywhere that people have told you "Do not vent your sadness here"? Is your response meant to make those who responded feel bad for making an unreasonable request on a person who's struggling? Do you even think that people suggest you belittle other sitches? If so, why do you interpret it the worst way?

For my part, I was trying to give you hope, to show you how desperate things can look at some point even in successful R. I think that's what everyone was trying to do.

Maybe you don't do it, maybe you do but subconsciously. I'm pointing at it because it might be communication patterns that affected your M. Not being able to express your needs directly is something you will learn about in No More Mr. Nice Guy.

--------------
Just a quick note: you're the same age as me yet you have four kids between the ages of 13 and 20. I'm very impressed.

[Train]

Great food for thought up there, Mozza.

[Barry]

Thank you everyone, and particularly you Mozza.

I wasn't trying to be manipulative at all - maybe you're right, perhaps I do need to look at how I communicate. I just typed what I felt at the time and what was said by my W (It was my W that had put the "Its over" in the text, not me).
When I said "Sorry I vented my sadness here", I was more meaning that I'm well aware that the people reading my posts are also going through a tough time, and I don't want to depress people by reading them. That has been mentioned to me before.

It wasn't with the intention to make anyone feel bad for the content of their replies.
I know I need to be stronger with all of this, I am trying.

Barry.

p.s. Thanks for the comment about the kids, it is fairly impressive I know

[Barry]

Hi all.
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone here who has taken time to help me in the last few weeks, I really do appreciate it.

Mozza, if I could just answer one of your questions above "What are the steps I see on the path to R". No, I don't expect there to be an easy fix to this. We've been through a sitch like this before (to a lesser extent admittedly) and although the underlying issues were obviously not addressed correctly, I do know it's hard work.
I would say that over the next "X" months, we would need to get to know each other again, as the people we've become. That's of course after we both figure out who we are for ourselves!! I'm sure there'll be lots of small steps to take before any talk of R, or "dating" can take place, and there'll have to be some very honest talk of each other's boundries. Maybe we won't/can't accept each other's, maybe we can...I don't know at this stage.

No change with W's views on things at this time, had NC since Saturday, but did meet with her this evening to sort out a financial matter and to discuss issues that S13 is having at school. There were some problems with him before the S, but it appears to have stepped up since. We've both spoken to him individually but were really just checking that we're both singing from the same hymn sheet...(we are).

There was some general chit chat about her night out last week, and she couldn't resist telling me that she's out this weekend too with her work colleagues (most of whom are around 10 years younger) who had told her she had to go). I'm sure it was meant to bug me as I have had controlling issues with the "clubbing" nights before. Not so much because she was going and I thought she would get up to anything untoward,, more that we never did it ourselves. My usual attitude towards it used to be.."No problem with it, but when is our turn?". I just said "that's nice, have a good time".

I did tell her she looked well, and that she looked slimmer (she does). She looked very attractive truth be told but of course, I don't voice this.

She didnt ask about what I'd been up to. This could stem from the fact that in our M, I've always been "the talker" out of the two, and I would usually be more than comfortable in letting her know about my recent GAL activities. At the end of the day, they are for me so if she doesn't ask, I won't bring it up. Bit of a 180 for me.

I did tell her that I'd managed to arrange for some IC through my employer (she already knew about me attending the Emotional Wellbeing course which starts in a couple of weeks time). She was glad that I've arranged the IC (that was something I would never have done before). Actually, she did ask if my meds were helping and one of the kids must have told her I haven't been sleeping well as she asked about that too (so not all negative!). I am looking forward to the IC, I think it will help me. I'm still hiding my pain and emotions under a very thin mask.

Still reading DB, and have already identified some of the relatable issues we've had in our M. I continue to wear my ring (she doesn't) so she knows I'm standing. She's well aware that I don't want this at all.

All in all, not a bad meet up.

Barry