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[Panthr]

Always good advice Sandi. Thanks for responding.

I never thought about wanting to catch me doing something wrong for justification purposes --I'm definitely not going to give her reason to justify ending marriage. A few weeks ago, I went out to catch a movie, she went out and then stayed at her mother's over night. Next day she asked me why the blinds were closed in LR ---thought it was strange, like she was trying to catch me doing something. Since I've been doing my 180's especially going out, she seems more inquisitive of my whereabouts. I don't ask her about hers, but she always seems to question me.

My W is definitely concerned with appearances and what people may think of her. It's frustrating that she on some days could basically ignore me, yet wish my uncle a big ol' "Happy Birthday! Enjoy your day Uncle J!" I've confided in some family. ---but I haven't even told my own sister yet and this is going on 3 months. I don't want them to think ill of her and our relationship if we were to ever reconcile.

Also seems like the more 180, the more she is also if that makes sense. Before the 1st of the year she would mope around house, all while she was still seeing OM. She was disengaged from kids, moody, and manic highs and lows especially with kids) Ever since the first of the year, she seems to be trying to show that everything is great. --- so I guess that my 180s have made her take notice, but I'm not sure if her reaction is good or bad.

The biggest obstacle (among them all, and there are lots)really is pride. I know I should be concentrating on me, but I almost can't see her overcoming this. I'm afraid her pride, which in past (just not recently but through entire relationship)has prevented introspection, admittance of wrong doing, or apologies will prevent her from ever meeting me half away. I would love , but never expect to her cry and ask for forgiveness--especially anytime soon. It's almost as if she would like to stand there with a match and gasoline and burn down the relationship versus having any meaningful introspection.

[Panthr]

I feel like I'm turning the corner on detachment or at least I hope I am. In spirit of GAL, I texted W saying I'm going to happy hour tonight and woulbe going out tomorrow after the kids were in bed. All I really did was see a movie. I was so stressed about coming home and the tension that would be there on her part including her ignoring me which was the case. Anyways, after the kids were in bed -- the youngest still up with me - she said she was going out. I just said okay and realized I wasn' t stressed about and for first time. Now that may change but not feeling the pain or stress right now but all of our emotions fluctuate minute to minute on this board. Shes probably going overv OM (EA) house at this time. I think what made me feel better is she is in this tit-for-tat mode, very petty. Like I said earlier. I think she's trying to 180 me. I'm seeing her almost from a pity standpoint. Earlier on FB she made a comment about there being an indoor adult pool that serves drinks and how excited she was and they had to go. If she were 25 I'd think thats cool but shes 38 with two kids and it seems pathetic now and trying to hard.

[sandi2]

I understand about the pride. I always had to much in my MR. I believe it played a part in making it hard to apologize to my H, but I wouldn't say it was totally to blame. However, after I ended the A and had decided to stay in my M, I was having trouble getting off to sleep (for many months). Finally one night I went to my H crying my heart out, and really apologized that time, whereas before, I had given half-hearted ones. I think the remorse has to out-weigh the pride.

I think it is a good sign that she asks questions about why the blinds were closed, etc. it sounds as if she is curious. Do you realize how you can work that to your advantage? It is much better than her not giving a rat's a$$ what you do. If friends, neighbors, FB connections, family, etc. see you happy and living life to the fullest..........guess what will be the message she gets? A certain type of jealousy of knowing you can be fine without her in her life can work in your favor. Do you see what I mean?

I am not saying to lie to her, but when she asks you questions like she did with the
LR blinds, you need to be a little vague in your answers. Don't tell her exactly what she wants to know. W: "Why were the blinds closed?". You: "Were they? I guess I didn't notice.". W: "What were you doing, was anyone with you?". You: (looks at her, laughs, shakes head and walks away.)

Learn to be mysterious. Think it is playing games? Well, it works with women, so you decide. Stop texting her and giving her your agenda.

[Panthr]

Thanks Sandi. :-)
I guess that is my hope that eventually she will realize thinmgs and apologize, but I really donlt have any expectations at all. I think I'm at the point where I would be shocked if she did such a thing. I donlt think the remorse factor has overtaken the pride and nit sure if it will, espacially with her.

That's good to hear that she may have been jealous. I've never wanted to make my wife jealous --ever in the marriage. I've always felt confident enough that I didn't need that validation. Basically, I'm here for you --I've commited to you. I'm not here to play games. I think I did pique her curioisty and it felt good, it really did. I agree that I do need to be more vague with her.

Just this last week, I texted her on Friday that I would be going to happy hour after work (I actually saw a movie which I enjoyed) and I also that on Sat I would be going out after the kids were in bed. On Saturday, I amde arrangements with my neighbor who is going through a divorce --he invited me and the boys over to play with his kids (he's living with his parents till divorce completed). So after the kids were in bed, all she said to me was "I'm going out". I replied "okay". I had a calm about me. I felt somewhat detached and didn't stress where she was headed and felt asleep. She came home around 2am in the morning.

Next day, pretty typical.Very little to no communication, though she did ask me if I wanted a coffee as she was going to store. I said no thank you, that was thoughtful. I took S5 to a birthday party while W hung back with S3. That evening she asked how long I was going to be neighbors house for playdate. Told her I didn't know, an hour maybe. We ended up staying for 3 hrs.

The boys and I had a good time and were gone for 6pm-9pm. I brought over some wine as a thank them, which she had to notice because I bought two bottles and left one on counter. We came back and the silent treatment continued ---she did ask the kids a few questions, but you'd think that she would ask me how were boys, etc. She didn't. No expectations. Now worries. I think me being over there bothered her because she 's seeing that I'm becoming friends with someone going through the same thing and she may not want to "look stupid" (pride)when she sees the neighbors. She asked me a few times if I was still going out. Tiold her of course.

After we came back, I got S3 ready for bed while she took her time with S5. She knew that I wasn't going out until boys are in bed. Once she got S5 settled with him in his room, I got dressed and left. The last few days she did not ask where I went for "happy hour" or where I was going on Saturday, though I made sure I was dressed up, showered best cologne, etc. I went to the casino for a few hours (easy to blend in there) and came in at 2am. I had a good time...won $100 on roulette, playing kids birthdays.

Sunday was a typical day. She did not ask anything about my whereabouts but silent treatment continued. That's alright. I continue on with my life with kids. Funny thing, is that she has gotten much better at mirroring my relaxed demeanor with kids --her mannerisms and langauage have been spot on with mine.

As far as 180s go, I've been doing a ot of different ones. Getting to think she doesn't know me as well as she thinks she does. I've done the typical ones, but this is unuaula and I have to chuckle because this one actually got to her to say something to me last night.....

I've always been gentlemenly --that's how I was raised. My wife I think has confused gentlemenly and classy as "boring". She's sort of alluded to it in the past. She thinks I'm boring. I luike to think ogf myself as "solid" but we will go with boring. So lately, I have been belching around the house out loud, --something I've never done. Now W would belch from time to time on purpose.I've always found it unladylike, but I tolerated it. Now I've been a litle more crass --lets say. Belching in front of kids, teaching the boys a funny song about diarrhea. Last night she said you're burping a lot lately. So weird that THIS gets the verbal reaction from her. Oh well. Sometimes even the smallest 180s make a difference. :-)

[Panthr]

Being in Limbo….

It’s been a few days since I have written anything. Really nothing has changed much at home. W continues to not look my way, pretend as I do not exist at all. Her interactions have been better with the kids (how she use to be) but they do seem forced as if she is trying too hard. I think she has realized that the kids are gravitating towards me and I’ve been the one spending time with them.

Just to recap, the silent treatment has pretty much constant since 12/30 when she found the GPS on the car. In mid January we had a big blow out, the worst in all of our years where she actually said the “D” word. Things calmed down and no mention again of it and then there was some small talk in subsequent days. Things became silent as I continued my 180s. She went out for happy hour last week, I let her know that I had plans for happy hour last Friday and was going out last Saturday. Silent treatment ramped up and she out of the blue last Friday told me she was going out (acame home at 2am)---I didn’t ask questions at all. And the following days he didn't ask anything of me when I came home late.

Now while I was out last weekend she had found some notes I had jotted down that I had hidden in my shoe in the closet while I had taken S5 to a birthday party last week. It basically paraphrased my reasons for wanting continue the fight but also that I wouldn’t wait forever. They were words that a veteran had written on here a while back and the words resonated with me. Part of me wanted to her find it –which she did. My notes basically read……

"I don’t like being made a fool of , but standing for my marriage is part of my plan. I am making a choice to stand for my marriage at this moment even though my wife is having an affair and is refusing to work at the marriage, but I have made this choice for a period of time and will hold out as long as I can. My wife is an adult and I cannot control her and I praying she comes to her senses soon before my love for her runs out, but I will hold on to the best of my ability. This is my decision and what I am standing for. I am here for her when she is ready to do the necessary work and clearly she isn’t ready to do that right now. I believe I am showing character and strength by letting her know that I am willing to suck it up, forgive, love.

Why continue in the marriage and fight for her? (paraphrased)
Because I took a wedding vow before God and took it seriously> itw as not “for better or for better yet”, it was “for better or for worse”, because I loved her and we had a lot of shared history together, when we work together, we are dynamic , because I didn’t want to demonstrate to the boys that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand for what is important to you, for as long as you can, for the best fo your ability, because if the situation were revered, I would hope that she would do the same for me, because I didn’t want to go to my death bed with regrets, that I should have tried harder, if I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of saving my marriage and keep my family intact."

So right now I feel like I’m in limbo. I’m remaining positive around the house, doing some 180s but it seems like she has continued to shut down. I’d like to think I'm doing the right things, but without pursuing there aren’t any openings to communicate. It seems like a high stakes game of chicken.

HC

[sandi2]

Why did part of you want her to find the note you wrote?

[Panthr]

It was because a lot that I read on here said that basically you have to act as if you are moving on with your life. I haven;t beeged, pursued, inquired, etc. I've been very patient.
My actions have shown that with my 180s and GALs. I think I was okay with her possiblly finding it because I wanted her know that if need be, I would be okay in the end by her walking away --confident that I have tried everything for us and the boys.

[Squiggy]

I just read through your sitch, Hope, and I have to say that what I'm seeing is rather inspirational. What you are doing in your 180s is really making me evaluate my efforts. I'm still struggling with GAL due to my work schedule and when I have S5, but you have given some great ideas. Keep up the good work for yourself and your sons.

[Panthr]

Squiggy, thanks for checking out my sitch. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. It;s been tough.

Man, what I'm doing doesn't seem inspirational --seems fruitless at times, so thanks. So, originally I thought of 180's and GAL as grandiose then I realized that they donlt have to be. I have the same situation as you with the little ones. I've always been involved heavily but really stepped it up since my W checked out in the fall even before bomb dropped in Oct.

My DB coach Chuck had me ask myself, what would your W say about you? Because she thinks she knows you so well and that you can't change, so that had me thinking....

**Working out daily --ran a 5k in Dec, another 5K this weekend, signed up for Tough Mudder in August (haven't told the W -- this is for me)
**Got back in shape
**Bought new clothes, new cologne, underwear, etc
**Make sure that I'm always dressed up --never wear sweats unless I'm working out
**Connect more with friends. I had become isolated over the years --sharing my feelings, opening up about my sitch
**Began drinking beer if I'm out (usually people do this less)--She had thought for years that I'm boring
**The funny one --changed some mannerisms, become a little more crass ...lol
**Some of these are silly, but they are 180's.....post more on FB which I abhore, become more protective of my phone.
**Do less around the house --- I used to clean up all of the time, but have cut back. (we just moved in Oct 13 to what she refers to "my dream house" ) I also stopped finishing our basement -- in lieu of spending more time doing other things.
**More mysterious --- texting more, though usually just checking out this blog or keeping notes on my phone.

Hope this helps. I'm sure that there are more that I'm doing but thise we just a few. Sometimes in marriage we lose ourselves and now we have the time we didnlt have before to find ourselves again. Don't necessarilly change the good things about you and who you are --just continue to to do those even more --accentuate your postitives.

[Panthr]

Sandi, your words to Barry perfectly sums up why I was okay with her finding the note. I wanted to put some doubt that I will be here no matter what and my love and patience does have an expiration date. This is what I hope to accomplish with my actions also.

HC

***I am very traditional also. I can appreciate the fact your wedding vows were serious to you. The WAW (or wayward wife) no longer has the same value she once did, therefore, those vows have run the course in her viewpoint. I say that to tell you this....men tend to waste time crying over how their WAW has changed and keep standing around waiting to see if the girl they M shows up. She is not the girl you M. She has changed.....drastically. In her mindset, the M is over and she has put it in the past. The more you try to change her mind, the worse you are causing her to think about you. I won't put into words just how big a turn-off this can be, b/c I know it is too painful right now to hear it. You just have to accept that the way you have handled yourself thus far is not working.

I'm going to tell you something that you probably won't hear a DB Coach say this plainly. IMO, the WAW needs to believe you are through with the pathetic chasing and begging, and that you are over her. She needs to believe you are enjoying life without her and that you are moving on. When I say she "needs" to believe it, I mean that in order for her to become interested enough in you....these things need to happen. In short, she needs to think she has lost you. I know that may not make a lot of sense to you, since she was the one who wanted out, but I am referring to the nature of most women. It's fine when she thinks she's dumping you, but she starts singing a different tune if she sees it being turned around.

I am not telling you to start dating or anything like that if you aren't ready for it. I'm just trying to get you to see the picture from her view. She was done with you and so you moved down the block from her? You have no life and keep the kids at night (every night?) while she's free to do whatever she wants. Nice for her. You have sit and mourned for her, while she just wants you to find someone else (to get you off her back). Harsh words, but that's it in a nutshell.

I know you'll say you live close by for the sake of the kids, but it really is not a good option b/c you see too much. It is like picking at a sore. Plus, she sees all she needs to see going on in your life, too. (which is nothing) So, she has nothing to be concerned about. She has you just where she wants you to stay. Not good for you, however.

Before you can "win" her back, you are going to have to change some ways about yourself. If you are willing, we can help you. It will not be easy, but you will appreciate it when all is said and done. First, you have to save yourself before you can save your M.****