Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #5

[Karma12]

Oh HP your son is crying out. He needs your to be his rock. You have gotten great advice here. Listen to it. Life if short. You hold the key to your happiness and future. Plan a bucket list for you and your son.

You cannot keep blaming your wife for your unhappiness. I'm sure she gave you many waring signs that she was frustrated and unhappy. Be the best man you can be. If it's not her then in time you will find love again.

It's ok to be on your own.
Cheers

[HPoirot]

Oh HP your son is crying out. He needs your to be his rock. You have gotten great advice here. Listen to it. Life if short. You hold the key to your happiness and future. Plan a bucket list for you and your son.

You cannot keep blaming your wife for your unhappiness. I'm sure she gave you many waring signs that she was frustrated and unhappy. Be the best man you can be. If it's not her then in time you will find love again.

It's ok to be on your own.
Cheers

Thank you Karma for you nice post. I was about to type "I'm trying to be my boy's rock," but I'm choosing to stop trying and just doing it everyday.

So today I am his rock. We'll go out for breakfast and have a good time. Then his mom will be by later to take him to his friends house.

I'll plan a menu for this week and go grocery shopping. I'll also buy some new clothes.

Than I'll cook and watch some football.

I have not bought alcohol for a little bit. I thought it might be nice to enjoy some this evening watching the game. I don't think I need that though.

Instead of alcohol, noticed I've been eating junk food and soda. I have put back on some weight. I will get back on my eating discipline.

Also I slept very late today. Again that's no good for my PMA as I think about my W and my hurt lying in bed.

I thought about how my W is very angry with me. There is a terrible argument documented in the Denver thread where the angry W says many of the things I've heard from my angry W. It is here...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2157757#Post2157757

It's good reading to understand how your angry W may be thinking.

It got me thinking of the long road I have if I'm to show my W I'm the best choice for her after 7 years of taking her for granted. Denver also took his W for granted for 7 years and treated her terribly.

After that argument, it was another year until Denver's W moved home.

I just had my argument like with with my W 2 weeks ago.

Even though she looks miserable and cries and seems to be struggling to start her new life... it's not enough for her to even think about coming back.

So I choose to finally get serious about consistently being better me.

My goal today is to keep it up all day.

Off to breakfast at the diner.

[Mozza]

Thanks for sharing the Denver thread. I just read the one above. It was inspiring, especially knowing it ends in R. One an tell through the whole argument that they both want the M. She mentions she wasn't done thinking and even hints she was leaning towards him, etc. He repeats he didn't want that but OM changed everything, etc. Sounds like his dropping of the rope made her realize what she'd be missing.

It made me reflect on my own sitch, of course. I don't feel much of this reciprocal desire to fix things if it weren't so messed up, as in Denver's. My W is more "Oh well, it didn't work out. But all is good now, let's be friends."

I'm glad you're having an attitude adjustment, for your own good. I was reflecting on your tone recently and to me it comes across as martyrdom. "I'm right, she's wrong, but I'm such a martyr for the good cause, I'll take it all. She's crazy, I'm reasonable." I think it would do you good, it would make it easier on you to see her as less crazy and you as less righteous. Personally, I reflect often on how I drove my M where it is and it makes me much more tolerant of my W's behavior. Part of it is payback after all. She suffered and now it's my turn. If I didn't give her all that suffering, maybe she wouldn't be giving it back to me.

Looking forward to how things go for you from now on. It's an interesting experiment.

[HPoirot]

Working on forgiveness now...

Here's a story that helps me when I have a harder than usual time forgiving, which is a lot...

One day the entire world heard God's voice say, "The World will end in 7 Days". It was surreal but the entire world heard it. Some scoffed. But the next day everyone heard it again, "The World Will End in 6 Days." This time people panicked. Some went nuts, others cried, and they asked their governments what to do. Then people noticed that the sins of each person began to show on their faces. Envious people started to have green faces. Adulterers had "A"s on their foreheads...those who spoke badly of others or spoke with biting words, started to have disfigured mouths...Days were passing. The rich gave away ALL their fortunes but still they heard God's voice say "THe World will End in 3 Days." Families huddled together and hid, or blamed, and nations wondered if there was some trick to this, or if they should work together to solve the problem. Still they heard the voice each day, counting off to Doomsday. Everywhere people prayed and fought about which religion was "right". Some flagellated themselves and others fasted or chanted. Some got drunk.

The last day on earth, a married couple held each other as they looked out their window, facing their last day on earth. The h had an "A" on his forehead and his wife was green with jealousy and her mouth had sores around it from her biting words and resentments. Finally the h looked at his w and said, "You're the only woman I ever really loved and I'm so sorry I hurt you. Can you forgive me?" The wife said, "Oh I do forgive you, and can you forgive me for all those things I said, before and after?" And the husband nodded and they held each other. Suddenly, the "A" from the h's forehead disappeared, and the wife's complexion became natural and beautiful and her mouth totally healed....and word spread through out the land and the entire world, quickly. People ran out to those they'd resented, and forgave them. Husbands and wives came together, brothers reached out to their estranged brothers, friends who'd become enemies called out to the others, nations wiped their slates clean...and a Voice was Heard speaking to the world saying "You are forgiven."
And the world was saved by forgiveness.

Thought I'd pass that on. And re-read it to myself a lot.
j-

[Wonka]

HP,

I want to share with you and others about my journey to forgiveness. In my experience, forgiveness wasn't a linear process where one says "I forgive you" and then B happens. Then you are on the B square, then viola! You've moved to the C square. It didn't happen to me.

Intellectually, I forgave Ms. Wonka for the hurt she inflicted on me. Emotionally was a whole different ball of wax. Whenever I thought of some negative or painful action/words from Ms. Wonka, my wounds came to the surface and I picked at those scabs re-wounding myself. Then I'd get into a tailspin of resentment and going over 'what-ifs' that didn't serve me well at all.

You need to understand that it took me YEARS to get to the place of true forgiveness. I worked very hard to chip away at my own emotional unforgiveness toward Ms. Wonka. What was interesting was that the inability to forgive is very closely intertwined with anger. I somehow stumbled into this internal discovery after sitting on the discomfort sofa a few times asking myself why I'm feeling those uncomfortable emotions. From that new perspective, I tackled my own quiet, simmering anger under the surface and asked Teacher Anger what it was trying to show me.

As I worked through the anger, forgiveness started to fall in place and then I found my friend Indifference. Viola! I've arrived. Interestingly, when I reached that place of forgiveness, I finally sat down and composed an apology letter to Ms. Wonka (with the help of my wonderful friends over in the MLC forum and Bets). From that point and on, things shifted between the two of us. What ensured was pretty deep convos for the first two weeks after the letter was sent. The most communication ever in nearly 10 years.

The whole point of this is:

Don't be too hard on yourself in getting to the Forgiveness Square at a certain time. There's no fixed timeline. It is a process that one needs to work at diligently to FREE themselves of the bondage of anger and resentment. For me, it was a very hard road to travel on, but so so worth it!

(((HP)))

Treat yourself gently, my friend.

[sandi2]

Good post, Wonka, thanks for sharing.

[HPoirot]

Working to stop operating from a place of anger and fear...

Was it a tactical error? I don't know. I ultimately decided that nothing I proactively did regarding acknowledging the day was going to hurt my situation, but that NOT doing something COULD actually cause damage (W may have interpreted as me being the old Denver).

So that's why I ended up sending the text.

Denver,

First......That might have been the single longest post I have ever seen!!! hahahaha You may have de-throned "Epic-Eric" as the de-facto king of long posts laugh (that is not to say that I can't post some long ones myself).

Okay, down to business..........

Your operating from a place of fear......it is normal. I know because of what you posted right up there. You basically said it in bold......

you were afraid that your W would make some sort of interpretation.....

Another way to look at the statement up there is to try to take out the "but" and make it sound the same as you originally intended........

The "BUTS" will get you everytime........

It really highlights when YOU are trying to justify something that you know is wrong or when you are saying something but don't really believe what it is you are saying.......

Think about it.........

Take a scenario where you are trying to apologize to someone for something you did or said to them. Often we really blame them for what we did instead of really "Owning our words/actions"

Therefore, we say......

"I'm sorry......BUT you made me do it."

translate....

"I'm sorry......BUT not really." smile

Soooooo......

Until you deal with that fear of how your W may or may not interpret something you do or say.......

you really are not in a position to interact with her........you will eff up the sitch.

Clearly the debate going on in your thread is passionate and thought provoking.....

I am going to tell you that IMO both sides are correct.....

(how was that for being diplomatic laugh )

25 is trying to get you to deal with the internal demons that plague you and me and anyone else that is here and has been betrayed........that anger beast is a real b!tch.

You never really get rid of it.....and you shouldn't it is part of who you are........it is part of who I am.

You take my cheerio's away from me, I am going to get mad/angry.

It is how we deal with it and ultimately react to it that determines how others view us and interact with us.

25 is imploring you to see past your pain and focus on how your W is feeling. How she could get to a place where she could leave the marriage and cheat.

Now to be clear......There is nothing you did that caused her to cheat.......that was her decision and she will have to own that, and more importantly YOU HAVE TO LET YOUR W deal with it on her own..........and she will in TIME. (It will be very hard on her.)

This is what 25 is saying.....that you actually have to have some compassion for her in order for your heart to be in the right place to do what you need to do.

Now, you very much need to stop engaging as some of us are imploring you to do.......

However

you need to do it from a loving and compassionate place.

Hard to do.

I will continue to push you to do the right thing until your heart is in the right place to do something different.

As long as you are operating from a place of fear, and make no mistake......YOU ARE............you have not adequately dealt with the underlying issues that re-inforce that fear.

One of those issues is ANGER.

When SBH, Starsky, Faith and anyone else that advocates an action that might come off as punitive or retaliatory, it is mistaken as being anger that has not been dealt with adequately.

Here is the problem.........YOU definitely NEED to take the actions that are being suggested......

however if you have not dealt with your pain and the very valid emotions that come with your pain then your actions will wreak of ANGER.

This is really where I come down in the middle.......

You need to pull back because you are really not ready to deal with her "in-decision" yet. Now there is the added benefit that by pulling back you might actually attract your W back.....ie the dance of the pursuer and distancer.

I think that this is where we all start to disagree......it is not that we neccessarily disagree with the course of action it is that we disagree with the motivation behind the action.

Some here are trying to motivate you from a place of pride and self respect........nothing wrong with self respect and pride IF you have done the hard internal work to deal with YOUR PAIN and ANGER and it has really become part of who you are.........part of your "skin" so to speak. (nickel to Mach).

Denver, I can tell you that while you might have identified some things that you need to work on or are working on.......your words here tell some of us (ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE) that you still have some strides to make.

BTW.....these strides are not meassured by how much your W is being nice to you or is doing things with you or anything to do with your wife.

GET IT??????

I can tell you that even after you have done the work you never are ever really done.......I can tell you that some of the most thoughtful, introspective and loving MEN here on these boards still struggle to keep their motivations pure and true.

Their actions remain the same, hopefully those actions are motivated by Love.......however Anger can creep back in sometimes and it has to be dealt with again, but we learn as we go........

I will repeat the drum beat........

Stop engaging your W, close FB, drop the timelines, focus on Denver.........

Your W will be in the same place YOU left her..........

She definitely has some of her own shat to deal with.

Cheers

Oh, BTW........Happy Little Friday!!!

What is the hard internal work to deal with YOUR PAIN and ANGER? How do I do that work? By just accepting the sitch and my part in causing it?

[Wonka]

HP,

You ask good questions.

What is the hard internal work to deal with YOUR PAIN and ANGER?

Where/What is causing you pain?

What is making you feel angry?

How do I do that work?

What would that look like to YOU?

What do you hope to achieve from that standpoint?

By just accepting the sitch and my part in causing it?

Nobody can make you angry or feel pain except your own thoughts that drive your emotions which then effect your actions. You are 100% percent responsible for your own thoughts.

What kind of man do you want to be?

What kind of father do you want to be?

What are your core values?

Not all pain and anger is equal to each person. How one responds to and handles the pain and anger is very individualistic. One thing you want to be mindful is that the longer you stay in the anger whirlpool, it keeps you stuck instead of expanding outward from a place of true understanding and radical acceptance.

[sandi2]

I don't mean to depress anyone and I really don't where to post this, so I pray it is acceptable to HP that I do it here. I am having a very difficult time today, so maybe It will help if I try to write. I am grieving very deeply over the passing of a loved one. The years of one's life has been reduced to a few boxes to be stored away. Will anyone ever look at it again? IDK, I just know I can't throw it away. Not yet, maybe never. The memories........are so sweet and yet painful as I know all my chances to share with that one person are gone forever. I should have done more, should have been better. Why do we live as though we have forever? Time was so short, so precious, and so much of it was wasted.

I have learned anger has many faces. Rage, smoldering, resentment, bitterness, jealousy, judgement, vindictiveness, disappointment, and so much more. We choose to not forgive b/c we don't want to let go of the anger. Why would we ever want to cling to something that makes us so ugly within? Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with us. It has nothing to do with them deserving or earning our pitiful forgiveness to them. Forgiveness is based on who and what we are as a person, not them.

As I search my heart today, I believe I have forgiven every person who ever did me wrong. Yet, I struggle to forgive myself for the pain I have caused my loved one who is gone. The disappointment and absolute horror of my actions will forever be my shame to bear. The disgrace I brought on the memory of those who raised me, and to those who loved me as best they could. How do I ever make it right? I can't.

Today my pain is so great. I want to gather all my cherished family and hold them so tight. I want to tell the world to stop this craziness and just love each other while they have the time. But I know this is part of the grieving I must do. It is a process.......much like forgiveness. Sometimes we can't just make the decision and it's done. We have to work on it a little more each day. Maybe someday I will even be able to forgive myself. Strange, b/c I thought I had, until this happened. Regret.........for anyone who reads this, please don't live in regret. Life is so short.


Tomorrow I will move forward a little more. That is all we can do. Don't stop growing and loving, and giving of ourselves. Make each day count, a sweet memory without regret.

[HPoirot]

Thank you Wonka. Your questions are very valuable and I'll answer them here.

I've been thinking and learning along the lines of your questions this entire weekend. I'm a little overwhelmed while at the same time thinking I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be.

So I'm tired. Tired of doing what isn't working. I know something's working when I'm feeling happy and energetic and I'm choosing the thoughts and actions that feed my happiness. It's a conscious thing.

So...

What is causing me pain?

My focus on my W. Simple as that.

What is making you feel angry?

My focus on my W not meeting my expectations.

What would doing the work look like to me?

Slowing down... examining my thoughts... questioning if a thought supports my R goals... refocusing on the one thought that works... "I love myself".... asking "If I love myself, what would I do?"... doing it... repeat.

What do you hope to achieve from that standpoint?

Happiness and satisfaction at the end of the day that I moved closer to my 6 month goals.

What kind of man do you want to be?

I want to be a centered, fun, relaxed, motivated, comfortable, purposeful, and secure man.

What kind of father do you want to be?

A father that is an example to his son so he can achieve the above.

What are your core values?

Poise, Enjoyment, Relaxation, Fidelity, Fitness, Discipline, Playfulness, Gratitude.



Now I just get on with it.