Jim0987 #6 - starting a bit of a rebuild

[edz]

@Vanilla

Firstly can I have a framed version of the bit where you said I was right as I think that may be a first for me? (hehe)

Second what furry things are you flushing? No, on second thoughts don't think I want to know!

But Jim Vanilla is definitely right on the family thing, I did - had to really as I was in a right mess - fall back on my Dad back in July / August I'd righted myself to a degree pretty quickly but I've worked the last few months to make sure I watch what I say around Stepmum, Dad and Stepsis to make sure that road doesnt get bumpy from other sources.

In fact Stepsis is arranging some time to come down and stay in the next few weeks and we'll be off out but even then I'll try - hard, and sometime fail I imagine, to keep anything relating to W positive or wherever possible out of the conversation at all!

Cheers all
I await another pod (prod?) Vanilla as I'm still stuck on what else to look at doing on GAL, hop over to my thread when you get a mo. Signed up for a digital photo course in January now and looking at gokarting up matchams way, should be fun and I can get S involved as he gets older.

Anyway enough sidelining Jims thread, mate, really, breathe and listen to vanilla (you know it makes sense!)

[jim0987]

The more I think about it the more crazy this whole thing is. The whole situation that is.

On this mornings stuff (and on reflection) I was hacked off that she was out all night again and because of the circumstances and what else I know has happened since BD that means with another man (which one only she knows). It annoys me because

- shes my wife even if she doesn't think she is,
- she finds it so easy to find new partners
- she clearly doesn't care about me
- i be spent 3 years crying out for her affection and having mine refused/rejected.
- I would love her to have stayed out late with me but she never would
- in terms of frequency of sex she must be at a peak since our honeymoon. Meanwhile I'm feeling the enforced abstinence

So all in I feel pretty solidly rejected. As a result rather than ignore it I used questions (and convinced myself they were innocent questions) to push her into a corner where she either had to lie or tell me what she had been doing. And the lies she went with had holes, not that dishonesty is new for her.

All of this I guess is me manipulating her to feel bad because I felt rejected which is basically the same nonsense I was pulling in our relationship. Not kissing her in the morning because she had made me late for work etc. Etc. Etc.

This is not the way to persuade her our R is worth saving.

Feeling rejected, particular in favour of soneobe else, is my biggest trigger and this is the most spectacular of rejections I've encountered

End lesson is 'STFU Jim!!!!'

Although the 180 of making sure what I say seems genuine and makes her feel good. No idea how to do that.

[edz]

Jim, I really, really understand some of this believe me. While I have no reason to think my W is seeing anyone else (and info from S bears this out) I, like you, have been on "enforced abstinence" since BD, in fact way, waaaaaay before as that was one of W's issues in the Marriage.

I know she's off out tonight, this is why S is coming here, she says its with her (girl)friend from work which I know she's done a lot in the recent past so I have no binding reason to doubt her but if she's lying and on the pull....well, not a lot I can do about it really short of clapping her in irons...err... I mean moving on.

Ultimately I'm not the one to guide you on the best way to interact here since my sitch is more connected to behaviours and long term issues between W,S and I as well as family and other factors but not outside relationships, that said it does appear that you are driving yourself mad on something you cant really change at the moment.

I see exactly where you are coming from in the above, I had to deal with my demons too insofar as why is W behaving this way and I have no embarrassment in saying I was the romantic one and tried to keep that side of the marriage going while W could put ice shields up whenever she needed to, leaving me upset in the dark at night sitting on the sofa by myself.

So I understand those feelings so very well indeed.

But.. While I wont say the best way to work with your W going forward as I'd give duff advice on that front, I will say you need to take care YOU don't vanish into a black hole of introspection on the whys and the hurt and what you could do could have done, could have may have done differently, you cant change the past and you cant change her that way and you'll only get depressed and introverted and impact your PMA (take it from a master).

The concensus here seems to be STFU as you say but I'll defer to gg and vanilla on those points.

My advice such as it is would be for YOU and the kids try to detatch more just like you wisely told me to do. Lost track a bit and not sure if your W is moving out or not? If not is there any way you and the kids could go on an away day or trip for breathing space so you can just be Jim / Dad for a little while?

As always mate just my opinion, but take care and remember to breathe a few seconds before replying or talking to W, I've found that's saved my hide from more trouble several times in the recent few weeks and whilst Ive a hell of a tunnel to climb out of my mood is very slowly improving. Does W see it? I dont know, is my relationship with my Son better, hell yes. Do I feel better, a little.

Keep at it mate, we'll all get where we need to be, eventually.

Edz

[Vanilla]

Jim

Remember your cat? Where has that gone.

Let's just think about lies for a moment. My understanding is truth is easily remembered it's real and it stays in long term memory. It has sound, touch, smell, pictures, attributes unfortunately truth sometimes stays too well. Can fade over time, peripheral details may vary, was it black or brown shoes but Id remember the kick ass red heels. Lies are hard to put together and impossible to remember they require repetition, they are flat. Since lies make us uncomfortable then we don't want to remember. They are short term memory, we may hold them, but once we sleep, poof memory gone.

That's why we can validate then check later and call on it. The liar may even deny saying the lie. Evidence is key to disputing the lie.

On our side there is imagination, we can turn each floaty flighty flimsy trace and make it an ecstatic yes or a downinthedumps no. When actually it's tissue instead.

Let go, detach.
Go GAL

Vanilla

[Mozza]

I think your last analysis is spot on and you should just have asked no questions, not even "Had a good night out?" You need to act like she doesn't matter. She gets a kick out of being the object of your attention. She'll be puzzled when she thinks you don't care much about what she does because you have other stuff going. None of us think we're all that interesting, until someone else starts looking at us with admiration or envy.

By the way, you seem to assume she's getting a lot of action from OM, based on little actual evidence. I suggest you dial it down for your own good and to be closer to the truth.

[jim0987]

Edz, Vanilla,

Thanks - I'm probably not as down in the dumps as i perhaps sound. the stuff about her and other men really does bother me because she is desperately seeking what she hasnt had from me but the reason she didnt have it was because she kept rejecting it (and as a result I gradually developed some proper crazy and unattractive behaviours based on anticipating the rejection - apologising for rest a hand on her leg etc.)

its frustration that I can see what I did wrong (I can only half understand why i did them) and know that we should be able to be happy together. I also know that i dont want Divorce for me or our kids. I look around and there is noone i've come accross that is even a patch on my W and if they were they arent single.

if we had just bloody talked to each other.........

so yes i need to detach more and i was alright until she woke me up at three in the morning - its started my head spinning and i've never worked out how to stop those negative spins - its what caused the big fall out 3 years ago (W met X, lied about it, sent me into a flat spin for about 3 months, harangued her about her past to find out why i wasnt good enough, eventually stopped when she told me how much i was hurting her - I genuinely didnt realise)

trying to stop those spins is something i working on with my IC

this mornings 'episode' aside from underdoing any recent progress has also shown me another way that my sarcasm and controlling side manifests itself. Its another thing to work on in the same way I have when feeling criticised. I didnt call her out on the lying but i made her feel bad and showed my sarcastic controlling side

I know i keep repeating this but her chief complaints that i know of are:
- I constantly chipped away at her self esteem with sarcastic commments
- I didnt trust her
- I was manipulative and controlling
- I was attritional in arguements to get my way
- She didnt trust me to be there for her as i had let her down so often in the past

i want to keep repeating these as these are the relationship dynamics i need to change. some of which stems from the internal changes i want to make but short term these are the behaviours i need to remove/180

I'm frustrated and sad about whats going on but i dont think i'm disappearing into a blackhole of depression

GAL scorecard for the last 7 days
Thursday - in office at work (1pt) had lunch with friend from work (2pts), played squash with mate (2pts)
Friday - in office at work (1pt) Read self help book (0.5pt)

Saturday - played with kids around wife all day. went for dinner with mate and his wife (4pts)
Sunday - around wife and kids all day
Monday - work (1pt), Kickboxing (2pts)
Tuesday - work (1pt), long phone call with friend (1pt)
Wednesday (today) - Day off work with kids (1pt)

Total 15.5 pts so definitely room for improvement

[edz]

Hi Jim

No problems mate, I look upon it as there's no problem with tracking these things we've identified, in fact they can help on consistent 180 behaviour changes BUT! don't obsess over things you (we all) could have done differently.

Do them differently NOW and moving forward for you and the kids, be the best YOU that's possible and if W comes back that's the ice cream on the cake, anything else will just drive you mad.

Now if only *I* can do that too

Ha, I see my sitch table from Vanilla is peculating around

Take it easy mate.

[Nettles]

Jim,

Where is Aspergers work going? (I'm going for my own testing soon)

Not an expert on it, but there seems to be a lot in here that might relate. I'd imagine the STFU is hard for you.

Also, have you researched what it's like for the partner of an Aspergers person? Not saying that it applies to your sitch, but might be interesting to review.

And I like your GAL point system. Being with kids should be more points IMHO.

[jim0987]

Hi Nettles,

STFU is really hard for me - I've always been kind of an all or nothing person in that sense.

If I start talking stuff just comes out and it takes a lot of effort to control that. when I do get into arguements I can be silent for a long time because I cant order or even keep up with all the thoughts that are racing through my head or if i do say something its usually pretty unfiltered or not quite what i mean. You can probably see that a little from my posts.

Add to it that I don't recognise when i'm going to far (pushing a point that has been made) I can see how difficult that might be for someone who has lost trust in me.

I hadnt thought to look research what it is like for a partner of an aspergers person. I think I'll do that. GoatGal recommended a book which i've ordered so i will read that and see if that helps.

I've spoke to my GP on monday about my suspicion of aspergers and he has referred me to a specialist unit for an assessment. he expects this to be in the new year sometime but it might be a couple of months. so in the meantime its try and figure it out on my own.

Besides it might not be anything like that (i might just be looking for an excuse)

If its something your looking into then any advice is much appreciated. when are you going for testing?


You can thank vanilla for the points system, though it needs some finessing I think.

[Vanilla]

Jim

I have what I call my 'loop'. I can emphasise the same point over and over ad nausem because I haven't picked up the signs that the other person has acknowledged my point. It comes across as very aggressive sometimes and can be annoying for the other party.

My IC taught me this method which is the 2nd , 3rd, 4th position mode

It requires getting out of your own head, and imagine sitting in the others shoes (2nd position) but then being the fly on the wall watching the interaction (3rd position),then being the spider watching the fly on the wall watching the interaction (4th position).
I can do this now I have practiced and it has really helped me get out of my own head. Otherwise I go inwards into loop mode and can't get out.

The GAL has really helped.

Ironically the book I found most helpful of late is the Gift of Learning by Ron Davis which is more about techniques than blabbing on about the syndromes and overanalysing. Quite a bit of try this or that or the other. Essentially aimed at dyslexia syndrome (which I don't have) and aimed for young adults. I don't know where asps fits in the pattern syndrome of ASD but ADD is a bridge from ASD to ADHD. 1 in 50 of us has ASD or ADD. I happen to have hyperfocus which is on the tail of ASD, and requires a higher IQ. I am not ASD or ADHD but I truly believe there are benefits to this spectrum disorder.
Recognition and diagnosis is the key. Those with the disorder that I have are always highly creative and generally love puzzles and challenges. They learn easily and the left and right brain are firmly linked. They did think it was cross neural linkage which triggered this, but the primitive part of the mind plays a link with triggering spin. Michelangelo is my hero.

I still lose my keys, phone, purse and wallet every day though. And I generally donated my belongings to lost property offices. Ever wonder where the odd things found on the tube come from? Wonder no more, they are from my handbag, if only I knew where I had left it, my handbag I mean! I forget where I left my car and I once reported it stolen, it was recovered 6 months later where I had left it parked! Talk about egg on face. I have had to go back to shopping mall car parks just before they close when my car is the only one left standing. Of course I now have tricks that I use such as a ribbon I tie to the aerial in large car parks, so my car is recognised by me! I buy odd coloured cars as that helps too.

Now
Vanilla