So your post hit home for me in a couple of ways...guess I should get that out there as "full disclosure" (you know when something resonates a bit too close to home?)
Anyway...I agree with the other responses that suggest that focusing on your responses while also taking into account that Wolfie has likely been dealing with residue around honesty and what that meant to other people in his life (and their reactions,etc) sounds like a good way to go. Not easy. But a good way to go.
A couple of things jumped out at me so I'll just throw them out there..
1. I'm wondering if this isn't getting totally lumped together in Wolfie's mind...in other words, your concerns about his honesty re. FF is getting jumbled up with him wanting to be forgiven re. the A. And while I don't GET why THEY don't get it ( ) that somehow if you can be very clear that you're separating the two things... (wanting honesty from him re. ffs vs moving on from the A) then maybe it will be more palatable?
around new year's h and I had a painful discussion because I was feeling as though he might be in contact with ow. he said to me during the conversation that I would "always" have an issue with "whatever friend" he had so what did it matter? I took that hard and felt very, very hurt by it -- a la -- what do I have to do to show you that I'm working my butt off to trust you?
but sort of hearing wolfie say the same thing makes me wonder a bit if I'm not missing what h is truly trying to say?
Sage blathers on.
2. wolfie's response of "why would you want to be with me if I'm so screwed up" has been said many a time in our household. I think it stems from h feeling **shamed** by me...does that make sense? I'm not so much saying that I am "shaming" as that he feels "shamed". It seems to be a very big sore spot for h...maybe for wolfie, too?
this weekend, h and I had a fight. the details aren't too important but I considered it a small fight...we were out, he did something, I got mad, he got mad, I apologized for my part on the way home, he withdrew and didn't talk or deal with me until the next morning when he apologized.
While apologizing he said "honey, did I ruin everything?" meaning, at a minimum, did I ruin the night? and perhaps, did I ruin our vacation?
It really made me sit up and take notice in a way that I haven't before. I had spent much of the night feeling like crap with h withdrawn because I was scared and alone and figured that he was mad. But what it really seemed was that he was feeling scared and alone and as though he had ruined everything...what a burden to carry over a small (to me!) fight!
Anyway...I partly winced when I read the words "character flaw" in your posting...sounds like wolfie is scared more than anything.
So...lots of words and little insight.
I DO know that you guys WILL rally, though, 'cause you seem to do so GREAT with the hard stuff.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Yeah...I guess I shouldn't take it too much to heart or think it's an indicator of future behavior. (SIGH!)
I guess I'm just still in skittish mode myself--pretty much hypersensitive about this kind of thing. God knows we all tell "little white lies" to our spouses from time to time, but rebounding from infidelity presents certain challenges.
You know what is ironic here? After spending some time talking to this email ff of his, I actually wished he WOULD have more contact with her.
She seemed to have a lot of good insight and quite honestly, I wish Wolfie got a lot of female perspective so he would realize that I'm not so odd! I know it helps me when I get good input from some of the guys here on the board.
So...does anyone have anything they would have handled differently in this sitch? Would anyone have just kept to themselves about knowing they were being lied to? Would anyone have gone on a major rant to their spouse about it?
Quote: Along this miserable road of life, Wolfie has been chastised for being honest. In order to avoid being slugged or eaten, he elects to not be truthful.
Can you set some goals/guidelines for yourself (specific to the triggers that you get) so that he feels safe being honest with you?
I so agree with the top half of this statement. My WAW chooses to run away and avoid the problems and projects the blame on me and holds me as the reason and cause for these. It is truly an inner deamon within themselves, the only thing we can do is to try and compensate for it by doing things that make them feel safe in opening up. How would he feel safer doing that?
Quote: wolfie's response of "why would you want to be with me if I'm so screwed up" has been said many a time in our household. I think it stems from h feeling **shamed** by me...does that make sense? I'm not so much saying that I am "shaming" as that he feels "shamed". It seems to be a very big sore spot for h...maybe for wolfie, too?
Very good point here. I've heard this many times before too. They don't feel confident enough and feel shamed. Another inner deamon here. I know my WAW has a very delicate image of herself. I now understand that I do need to treat her with kid gloves because she is so delicate. I unfortunately have the skin of a rhino. Although it has been softened up a lot lately. I am now much more sensitive to her needs.
Are these all character flaws? I guess it depends on what you consider a flaw. I love my WAW with all my heart and soul and these are parts of her that make up the person I love. The good parts that come with these things, her gentleness, caring nature would not be there if it weren't for the total package. I have wondered many of the same things you do, is it worth it all, will we always have problems, yada yada. Not to minimize your feelings, I agree they are there and a lot of us feel them too. I know these are our inner deamons at work. Let the angels rule.
BTW - there is a small DRfest in April in Seattle. Let me know if you are interested.
Ok, well--let's see, are we developing an overarching theory here? I think there is a reason that many of us have such similar stories and commonalities and we've touched on that before on this board.
HUGS...believe me, I know how pissed, disappointed and confused you feel right now.
It may not be much of a comfort to hear this...BUT....remember that our Hs have the ability (unfortunately) to be inappropriate EVEN when they know that what they are doing is exactly what we DON'T want them to do.
Wolfie's contacting his ff is probably NO big deal to him. He obviously sees her as someone he can talk to and although HE KNOWS any secret freindship with her would be totally unacceptable to you, he persues it anyway because in HIS mind it's a harmless friendship that YOU just don't understand and will think he's doing something BAD when to him he's just bullshitting with someone that happens to be female.
He's right to feel ashamed, he was an Ahole for lying about it and sending your trust for him screeching backwards.
Men are such dolts. But I tend to think it was stupid, but harmless. T2
Your 'revision' is VERY appropriate...so I retract my previous statement and replace it with MLCers ARE DOLTS....because dolts definitely do come in both genders!!! T2
OK--I feel a bit bad for coming here only when I was having a problem, but I'm glad I did.
I guess the concensus is: Wolfie gets this week's BONEHEAD award. We should make one up (a gold-plated bone on a pedistal?) and pass it around as appropriate.
) that somehow if you can be very clear that you're separating the two things... (wanting honesty from him re. ffs vs moving on from the A) then maybe it will be more palatable?
T2