Was really hoping part 6 would be posted in 'Piecing', but oh well...
Recap of last week- communication between W and I has increased, very few, if any, negativity towards each other. This past weekend we went out on a date, but still nothing physical, not even hand holding. Sunday, W had a couples' baby shower deal for her good friend in the dreaded 'circle of friends'. When I asked if OM would be there, she confirmed with the host that he would not. Maybe she's still being untruthful, but per MC, I need to start giving her some benefit of the doubt considering she is taking some actions (shutting down FB) showing she is working on the M.
W came over last night for dinner, then we headed to our 5th session of MC, focused on goal setting. We both agreed to work on empathy, the use of 'pause' should we feel uncomfortable discussing topics outside of MC and validating each other's words/feelings. W then agreed to increase communication with me, while I agreed to begin 'courting' W. I explained why I had not up to this point- DBing 101! MC brought this suggestion up, not me, and asked if W was ok with it- W agreed that she would welcome it. We also discussed being physical with each other in the moment if it felt right- hand holding and hugs. W stated she was not comfortable with kissing right now and we agreed that she would be the one to initiate when she feels ready. Set up f/u session for next week and I brought up Retrouvaille session later this month. MC seemed all for it and W seemed interested as well.
Now to the fun part- So as we're pulling out of the parking lot (drove separate), W calls me. Asks me if I could check on a 401k loan and she's thinking of selling her van as those are the only ways she thinks she can afford getting her own place (I didn't say it, but no way I'm taking a 401k loan from MY account to support her getting her own place). We ended up talking for a half hour about her feeling like getting her own place, even for 6 mos, is the only way she could take the kids overnight during the week (for those not aware- she currently stays rent free with a friend in a 2 bedroom apt). In a way, I feel like her getting her own place would be a step backwards, but we did discuss it a while back as a way to 'start over' in dating each other while living apart. To avoid writing more than I already have, I've left out some positives and negatives from our conversations, but the bottom line is that it's TOTALLY clear to me (and MC) that her feelings are not there right now. She made the comment in MC that she's been hoping a 'switch' would go off inside her that would make her want to work on the M, but it hasn't. That's a big part of why she questions herself on if she should continue or not, as she's tired of living in limbo.
All in all, not a big surprise to me, although it did seem to come out of the blue. I've known from the start that she was not 100% in and I know I put myself in the situation I'm in by not following the advice given to me on here to a T (so save the 'you're being played' comments). The 'new' Tarheel ended the phone call not pressing W on where we stand right now. I made it clear that I've proven to myself that I was fine moving forward without W. I sent MC an email earlier asking her advice on handling the W getting her own place topic. If we're working together and dating each other for those 6 mos, maybe I'm ok with it. But I fear it would be used as justification for ending the M because she realizes she can make it on her own. W is planning on coming over tonight again to help D10 with her Halloween costume, so stay tuned.
After reading your update, I thought I'd copy here what Starsky posted in MDU's thread over in the Infidelity forum. Just substitute OW for your W's OM. Starsky has articulated quite clearly the differences between having feelings coming back and making a decision. This applies to your sitch as well.
Originally Posted By: Starsky
This is my opinion, and my belief system (although many people share it), and take it for fwiw:
I truly believe the old truth of "Love is a decision." It is a commitment that the two of you make, to each other and to the marriage, that says "we are exclusive, we are monogamous, we are going to work on this, til death (or divorce) do us part."
FEELINGS on the other hand, do take awhile to return. They can take a LONG while to FULLY return.
I stress this because often times (and usually, it's a wayward WOMAN, not a wayward man who expresses this) a wayward spouse will say "But I've lost my feelings for you," or "I don't love you anymore," or often "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" (which is completely a FEELINGS statement). My wife expressed the same fears to me: "If I end my affair and come back and work on the marriage with you, I don't think my feelings for you are ever going to come back." To which I replied "I'm not asking for you to guarantee anything about how you will FEEL; I'm asking you to make a DECISION to rejoin me in this marriage, and to work on it for some set period of time that we both can agree on -- say, one year. If at that time either one of us don't feel like this is working out, then at least we will know that we gave it our best shot."
Your husband -- as you have lamented here often throughout your sitch -- has never made that commitment, that decision. He's operated more like a woman, frankly and has led all along with his emotions. I think he compares his feelings for you with his feelings that he gets (or, if he truly ended it with her, that he USED to get) with OW.
And he doesn't think it can work with you.
The problem is, he has never committed to no-contact, and has in fact REMAINED in contact with her, mostly thru work and we hope that's all that it's been, but it's still CONTACT.
Physiologically, this has caused him to remained emotionally BLOCKED to you, and he's being unfair not only to YOU but also to HIMSELF if he makes a potentially life- and family-altering decision (like divorce) based on whether or not he feels "in love" with you currently.
Not until OW is completely out of the picture, and you two agree to work on things exclusively, will his feelings begin to return and even then it takes AWHILE. My wife and I began to feel differently towards each other after a few months, but it took probably 2-3 YEARS for it to get back fully.
It's why I'm such an absolute NAZI about no-contact and transparency. I got overruled here, and I deferred to your decision and the advice from others which DID (and does) very much work at RE-ATTRACTION. We've seen that, and you did it very well! But for re-attraction to then take the next necessary step of COMMITMENT on your husband's part, I believe has a very small chance as long as he's remaining in contact with OW and keeping some part of his heart open to her.
I could be wrong. His statement about his feelings may have more to do with long-term issues he has with you, mixed with how much he's seeing you change (or NOT change) currently, and him deciding "these are the things that made me unhappy in the marriage to begin with, and why I stepped outside of my marriage and left mdu." But at a MINIMUM his decision-making is at least heavily INFLUENCED by the endorphines still running around his brain, in my opinion.
I just wanted to clarify that, since you've said that you are a "facts and logic" person and you like to think everything thru. The GOOD news in all of that is, I don't think your husband even YET has allowed himself to decide what he wants to do with you while UNINFLUENCED by a third party. And it remains to be seen whether or not that might still happen, and maybe his feelings change. So it doesn't necessarily mean that his feelings so far have been a "lie" -- they've just been blocked/influenced by remaining feelings for OW.
I do think it (no-contact decision-making, uninfluenced by a third party) needs to happen, though before the two of you make such a life-altering decision like divorce, if that's what you're thinking.
The reason she wants to get her own place (at least what she's told me) is so that she could keep the kids during the week and get them to school. Right now, she doesn't have room at her rent free place. Throw in 3 different school starting times and it's just not feasible at her current location.
If she was 100% in and agreed to dating me exclusively, I don't think I'd have as much of an issue with it. But since she's not given me the indication she's 100% in, I fear her getting her own place would take her 1 step closer to D.
6 months is a long time for her to see the new real you. c'mon man, you can do this. you've already got the playbook to her heart. a lot of things change but you are so far ahead of the game in being able to win her over. you have years of nuances that you have seen from her. if she is honestly open to the idea the only person that can keep you from succeeding is you. by not letting go of old hurts, arguments, etc. it's not like when you first started dating where you are learning everything bout her and end up making mistakes along the way. so far as the new place, yeah that would be a concern. if you make a big deal about it, she will make a bigger deal about it. she makes her own decisions. don't give her something to focus on that you tried to "take" from her. of course, take what i have to say worth a grain of salt because of my failure in my sitch.
don't give up!!
M40 XW35 M11 T15 S9 D5 Bomb 6/3/14 Papers del 10/3/14 D final 12/5/14
I wish I could love you and make you believe it 'Cause that's all you ever wanted From me
true enough, i was referring to her "feelings" not the nuts and bolts. if she wants to move, she has to take that on all herself. just referring to the idea.
M40 XW35 M11 T15 S9 D5 Bomb 6/3/14 Papers del 10/3/14 D final 12/5/14
I wish I could love you and make you believe it 'Cause that's all you ever wanted From me
Email from W this morning that she set up her own bank account, but we still have the joint account. She also said the following: 'This s*cks. Life s*cks. I hate people that complain about those things, but do nothing to change it. I am making a change.'
I have no idea if that's positive? negative? do I respond? She didn't end up coming over last night, so we haven't spoken since after MC the other night. No idea where we stand with things.
