This all started because I posted that I was going to fight for what I believe is right and "fair" in my D settlement. I still am going to do that. I have to for my own sake. I won't be "unfair" or punitive but I also won't allow her to take me to the cleaners either.
And I think that there, is where the disconnect happened...
Matt, I don't feel that anyone is against you fighting for what you feel is right...
I think that, at least for me, it is the HOW you are presenting yourself when you fight, that struck that bell.
I know you are hurting, and I know that you think that the world is against you now. And then you come to what is supposed to be the safe place for you, and you feel attacked.....
I can assure you that that isn't true at all...
What I don't want to happen, is for you to get stuck in the past, and stuck on how this incident, ruined your life.
I am not what happened to me...
I am what I chose to become
Carl Jung
Now...
Apparently, you feel that I insult you....
And I feel that you are very condescending...
I can tell you, that I have been where you are. Some of the posters that helped me, I HATED at first. I thought that there was absolutely NO WAY, that they could know what I was thinking and feeling ,and going through....
Guess what Matt.....they did.
They were a lot harder on me, than I ever have been to anyone else.
The FIRST response I got from another poster, was this...
You want the easy way ?
F easy, if it were easy, then any a**hole could do it
You want fair ?
F fair, who said life was fair..and who decides that ?
You want I'm sorry ??
Yea, well F sorry, we are all sorry that we are here
And I think that is what pissed me off the most, is that they could see right through me, and saw , not the details of WHAT, just more of a HOW.
HOW I presented myself, has become a LOT more important for me, than WHAT I did....
I can tell you that I wanted to walk away, actually RUN from facing this crap. And it took some time to realize that what I wanted to run from.....was myself...
I can tell that you are a pretty upstanding guy, and you want to do things the right way....
You are loyal, you have morals that you stand by, and you try to take the right path....
What I can't seem to get across to you, is that I am NOT attacking WHAT you stand for, I am trying to get you to see, HOW you are coming across to other people...
Do you mean to sound judgmental, controlling, condescending ???
I don't believe that you do...
I am just telling you how others see you...
Look. I understand how hard this is, when you feel your world being turned upside down....
Yet acting with anger and fear is only going to make things worse for YOU in the long run....
And it is also going to have a much harder time when you look back on this moment in your life...
It is also going to make you feel justified, in acting in a way, that I am certain, that you do not want to act.
Please, step back, regroup, and try to really see what I am trying to say to you....
I chose daily, and sometimes minute by minute, to act with Dignity, Honor, and Grace. Through all of my interactions going through this. There were times when I would get angry, and scared, yet I chose to not let those things interrupt how I wanted to present myself during the small battles.
It also didn't interfere with WHAT I chose to fight for during my legal battle...
It determined HOW I chose to fight for it.....
I knew that anything that I did, or said, and no matter how much mud I COULD sling, would ALL be public record IF one day, my children chose to look it up...
What did I want them to see ???
Within that, was where MY answers were...
Now....
What I would suggest for you to do here...
Is to make 3 lists of things...
Things that you want, with no exceptions...
Things that you would LIKE to have, yet are willing to negotiate on...
And lastly...
Things that you place no value on, and are willing to let go of..
Then you can find HOW to navigate those things....
Hi Matt, As a newbie, I don't know a lot of the others very well or have a lot of friends here (that comes w/history) . Was popping by as I occasionally do to see what's going on.
I just want to let you know that I miss you & hope you are well. Thinking of you (as I know, those you knew long before me, probably are) & supporting you in spirit ... always.
Take care, pb
Last edited by pbetra; 09/27/1407:10 PM. Reason: formatting error
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
I do understand that you weren't trying to be insulting, Mach, truly. I apologize if my response was rude or condescending.
I have much trouble with thinking of my W as my "opponent" in the D proceedings. It's why I have tried to NOT fight over the small stuff or even the large stuff and just "let go" of the things that my W has "claimed" in all this. I was fine with the her keeping the things that were important to her as, even if the value wasn't "equal", I would have a place to live that I could call my own and make it mine without her. It also would be a familiar, safe place for both my D's, the only home they have ever known and a constant in a sea of change. For her to tell me to my face that she was fine with what we agreed to and then when it came down to actually doing it, (and after she had already claimed all that she wanted), she, once again, "changed her mind", was, in my mind, another huge betrayal.
Even after I got the first paperwork from her lawyer I thought it might just be her asking for more as, like you said, a way to "negotiate" to get something else. But after I fought it and I read her "response" full of lies and unfounded complaints about how W is having to do so much more, well I knew it wasn't just a "tactic". And I also realized that I could no longer see my W as anything but my "opponent". But, even now, to do that, I need to remind myself just how much damage she has caused. How she has become someone new, someone who no longer cares at all about anything that I care about. I can no longer afford to see my W and feel compassion for her because that has only served to allow her to take advantage of me up to this point. Besides her actions have shown she has no compassion for me and how her actions have affected my life, nor does she even seem to appreciate it when I do.
My life won't be my own until the D is final. I really do get that there is no other outcome possible at this point. I don't have any hope that there will ever be anything close to "reconciliation". It just isn't possible as my W came to a decision on B-day that she won't ever see any other way. Besides, it was never really about me or our M. It's always been about her and how she feels about herself and her life. I really see that she is searching for what she feels is "missing" in her life more than trying to escape me. Sure, she is running from me but it's not the only thing she is running from. She is running from herself and her "old" life, I was just the biggest part of that life.
I really miss my family being together. Having my W and my D's and me all working towards a common goal, living together, being there for each other. Do I think that there's nothing ahead for me and my D's? No, of course we can still make great lives for ourselves it just isn't going to be the way I have always hoped. For now it's a lot harder due to the timing of my W's crisis but it won't always be that way.
In the end, the more you care about someone, the more they can hurt you. When someone who you haven't invested much time, love, energy in, may hurt you but not in the same way. Between the start when you think that this will "blow over", to the spewing, the acting out, the blaming, the wacky destructive behavior that follows, interspersed with times that they seem like their "old" self, it's a roller coaster ride that never seems to end. I actually think now that I would have been much better off if my W had just left at B-day and not waited as long as she did to leave. All it did was waste time and money and make things worse when she finally did go.
I agree that my W is going to be in for a really bad time when (if) her father does end up dying. I also don't see any way I can either make that better or worse for her. I don't see any way anything I may say or do will have the slightest affect on her. She has totally disassociated herself from me and only see's me as someone that is supposed to help pay for the things that our D's need. As this person who takes care of D14 half the time and is supposed to be there whenever she doesn't want to put herself out for her. She doesn't seem to have any respect for me, any appreciation for anything I may do that helps her out. Like this weekend when I offered to keep D14 until Monday so she didn't need to rush home from visiting her father out of town. I still do these things but not because of any other reason than it's the right thing to do.
Yes, I hate what she has done. I hate that she totally just gave up after so many years without even trying ( I understand she may feel that she did "try", I just don't see it). I hate that because of her doing this my life must now totally change from what I planned it to be for so very long. I hate that I have to do things that I don't want to do, give up things I don't want to give up. More than anything I hate that she has taken away my best friend in the world and the one person I trusted more than any other. At times I'm OK with it, other times I'm not. I will get through it in time I'm sure and then I'll be OK 100% of the time. I'm just not there yet.
Thanks so much pbetra, Some days are so much harder than others, usually because I'm reacting to something my W has said or done that shows just how much she has changed from the person I loved so much. Or because of the fact that my life is so much harder than it had to be because of her choices. Choices she had swore she would never make. I'll be fine, someday, when what my W does no longer effects me or my life (like after the D is final). Thanks for thinking of me!
I could have written what you wrote up there ^^^ . I get it, I really do, so do most people here. I originally started posting to you because I saw the similarities in our W's with the long-term depression and all. And I saw myself in you...this is the time that W was supposed to start working and we could really start knocking down that debt, start working on and growing "us" as the kids didn't need her as much (she was an attachment parenting style person, so the kids trumped everything...I got that, and could wait for "my turn"), start figuring out what our "freedom years" would look like... I get it. That's why I started posting to you.
I get how you feel. And to be honest, those feelings creep in every now and then when I am tired and stressed, or not being mindful of my thoughts.
There is a way through this, cuz you can't get out. Only through.
I lurked here for months, pouring over the archives, reading Starsky, Mach, UR, J3B, Go Blue, job, Bond, bworl, Truegritter, AmyC, jeanette, etc and etc. Reading them before I ever started posting helped me decide ONE crucial thing:
Was this MLC thingy going to break me, or make me?
Was I going to use this gift of time to grow and become the best man, father, human (and "maybe" husband) I could be? Or be like my co-workers friend, who after his D will have nothing to do with women and is content with a big screen TV, full on sports cable programming and several p0rn site memberships, bitter and angry?
I knew in the beginning, I could go either way, but found inspiration in those posters above. To turn this unfair, horrid, soul-crushing and self-esteem destroying event into a tool to change myself, a pivotal point in my life to be and become something better.
I worked hard, most of it is in my threads, but there is some that is not. Here is something that is not:
After stbxw finally decided she wanted out, a D, I was having trouble letting go of one particular "role"... "Protector". I am guessing you know pre-sactly what I mean. I was the family protector, and her protector for 24 years. I was damnned good at it, too.
I was chatting with Mach about this, and he told me something that really, really, pissed me off (yeah Mach, I was pissed... )..."You do realize, that THAT contributed to her being where she is, right?"
But I'm her H, a man, that is what we are supposed to do!!!...right Matt?
Nothing wrong, or dishonorable in that...
I still hold that value strongly, but Mach 's little truth dart made me dig deeper to SEE why...
Due to our long-term financial tightness with her being a SAHM, and only one income, there were a lot of things which neither of us could stretch our wings and take a risk on, for financial reasons alone. The point is, she didnt have many opportunities to do things, like take classes, learn to dance, take a trip by herself or with girlfriends, have a spa day, whatever. And we couldn't risk her (or me, for that matter) taking chances on something that may further hurt or precarious financial sitch.
Then add her her depressions and me having to pick up the pieces, make things happen, direct things because she just couldn't, not her fault... (sound familiar?)
Thing is, after years of that ^^^, she felt stifled, one of the BD points was "I feel like a little girl who can't take care of herself"... that I didnt trust her to take care of things...(deja vu Matt?)
To be honest, after A LOT of thought and soul searching... I didnt trust her to take care of things. I didn't, plain and simple.
I was thinking of the welfare of the family unit as a whole.
Good, right, moral intentions, but the road to h3ll is paved with....?
Is there anything I could have done differently at the time? Yes. But I didn't know better then.
The point of all that, was, that this process is tough, if you are going to do the work, it makes you examine everything and yes, even friends who point out a dose of reality will anger you, but they do it because they care, they want to help you get yourself to the other side. Even if they have to tell you things, point out things, that you may not want to look at...even if you will hate them, they will be honest with you. So hopefully you can be honest with yourself, look at yourself, and see what, where and who you are, and who you want to be.
Because that is the only way through this if it's not to be wasted, IMO.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
We had a talk about this recently, To her...it felt like CONTROLLING then...and she understands NOW why I did what I did, her role in this dynamic we cycled and fed into...that I wasn't intentionally being controlling, that I was looking out for the family as a whole...but 3 years ago? Nope.
And this is why she has to go and figure out herself and become a strong, confident, mature woman who can take of herself and not put all that onto someone else. <--- her words.
Last edited by TSquared2; 09/29/1403:18 AM.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Hey Matt. For some reason that maybe only you know or maybe you dont realize it, but, you dont acknowledge when I post to you. Now, I dont mind it. At all. I dont post to get a reaction. Just something I have noticed.
Anyway, I get that you are angry and upset with all that happened. Been freakin there, done that.
The thing of it is, that feeling that way doesnt change anything....except you. I know for me, that wasnt an option. This couldnt be at the expense of me.
The most important thing in being able to move forward is to accept what is. You dont have to like it. You could hate the heck out of it. But you do have to come to a place of acceptance. If you dont, it holds you back, keeps you stuck, and weighs you down.
The way to get there is to understand that her decisions are hers. It's to believe she is in crisis. It's to accept that these are the choices she is making now and they are out of your control.
That was so hard for me...the letting go of wanting something different. It takes real strength and courage. It takes faith.
I know this isnt how you wanted your life to go, but life rarely goes how we plan. You get what you get and you try to do the best with it. That's how life is most times.
The key to all of this is...are you going to waste this amazing opportunity of introspection ...holding onto things you cant change?
As I said, the letting go part is so hard. But man, it can set you free. I lost a lot, Matt, an awful lot. Some things I may never recover from.
But, I can only control what I can. I leave the rest.
It's hard to let go of the life you thought you wanted, but you do need to let it go. And start building the life you want.
And this next is very personal to me, special...but I'm going to share it anyway:
Quote:
It is because you looked inside and saw your flaws and hers. And even when you did, what you really saw, was your capacity to love. You faced your flaws and changed what you needed to. You saw her flaws and loved her.
What an incredible thing to do even when you were getting nothing in return. You loved her true and real, T, even when she wasnt lovable.
You learned to love you, too. Even when that wasnt comfortable.
I have not shared that before, Matt. That is really the crux of it all.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Hey Matt. For some reason that maybe only you know or maybe you dont realize it, but, you dont acknowledge when I post to you. Now, I dont mind it. At all. I dont post to get a reaction. Just something I have noticed.
Anyway, I get that you are angry and upset with all that happened. Been freakin there, done that.
The thing of it is, that feeling that way doesnt change anything....except you. I know for me, that wasnt an option. This couldnt be at the expense of me.
The most important thing in being able to move forward is to accept what is. You dont have to like it. You could hate the heck out of it. But you do have to come to a place of acceptance. If you dont, it holds you back, keeps you stuck, and weighs you down.
The way to get there is to understand that her decisions are hers. It's to believe she is in crisis. It's to accept that these are the choices she is making now and they are out of your control.
That was so hard for me...the letting go of wanting something different. It takes real strength and courage. It takes faith.
I know this isnt how you wanted your life to go, but life rarely goes how we plan. You get what you get and you try to do the best with it. That's how life is most times.
The key to all of this is...are you going to waste this amazing opportunity of introspection ...holding onto things you cant change?
As I said, the letting go part is so hard. But man, it can set you free. I lost a lot, Matt, an awful lot. Some things I may never recover from.
But, I can only control what I can. I leave the rest.
Leave the rest, Matt.
I just want to go on record as saying I acknowledge this as another wise and helpful post from one of DB's best! *kiss*
This is your calling, UR. Your passion. I'm not sure why it's not your career yet. It should be.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
I don't have much time but I wanted to acknowledge the last few posts..... Thanks T2, you and I have MUCH in common, the one difference I think is that my W waited until she went back to work after being a SAHM for many years before she went into full on MLC. If it makes any difference, even if your W had gone back to work, I doubt it would have changed a single thing. The seeds of her crisis were already planted and growing. You have given me much to ponder and I want to not just react to anything. I want to consider first.
uR, I'm so sorry if I haven't responded in the past. I want you to know I do listen and appreciate what you have posted now and in the past. Again, no time now to post back but know you are appreciated.
. 