CeMar and Dave36, You guys have put a lot of work into this. When I got to the bottom of the list I was thinking "Where do I sign it, where does the wife sign it and how many witnesses do I need to sign it!" The thing that really worries me is how long will an LD wife stay interested in this project. Surely in a few weeks (days more likely) they will go back to the same old rejection routines that they have been using for years. The strongest force in the universe is the force of habit. Have you ever seen a posting by an LD person? I've been looking but haven't seen one yet.
Corri is an expert in the LD field. She has some VERY insightful posts on this board and has been one of the LD's to finally realize what a HD is thinking and doing her best to accomodate. Try reading some of her posts. She really is an intelligent woman with some great advice.
I can see it now on Super Millionaire, the 10 Million Dollar question "How to restore Desire for Sex". Of course everyone would be crying foul with such a question, since no ones knows the answer to this.
Really, this is a question I struggle with to. I keep thinking, why go to all the trouble of trying to figure out my wifes needs, try to build a great marriage with the wife, have her make some little improvements, only to have her drop off again. Go through all this work of getting closer to her, only to have to face eventual divorce when she still can't meet my needs? How do you fix our wifes problem with desire and then actually KEEP it fixed?
As far as I can tell, restoring true desire really never happens. The LD spouse must realize that THEY must make major changes in the way they treat affection and sex. It will ALWAYS be work for them. So it is the responsibility of the HD spouse to make it as easy as possible for the LD to fullfill the need for sex. Here are things that HD spouses can do to help their LD spouse out:
1) Take over some chores. 2) Learn THEIR love language. 3) Meet their needs. 4) Help to clear their minds (particularly LD women). 5) Schedule sex as well as schedule nonsexual time. 6) Remove pressure to perform. 7) Be romantic 24 hours a day!!!
SuperDave, it really comes down to the LD spouse making the commitment to change. We HD spouse try to help, but we are pretty much powerless over this situation, which REALLY, REALLY sucks. The LD spouse ALWAYS runs the marriage. Without change on their part, the HD spouse only has the option to divorce. I have heard 2 different men call into Dr. Laura and ask her for advice on how to restore affection and desire in women that have none, and unfortunately Dr. Laura told these guys to "Stay in the marriage until the children leave home. Then you have a very tough decision to make". She knows that it is the women that must make a commitment to change in relationships like ours, otherwise NOTHING is going to happen. These are not things I want to here from her, but it pretty much is the truth.
Well guys...I gave her the list. It's in her nightstand drawer. It's been there 2 nights now...unread. 9 pages in all (I included CeMars guide..thanks). Oh man I wish she would read it. I'm losing hope that this will change much.
Dave - Oh man, I like your list. Althought I do not have the LD spouse issue, I can sympothise with some items like try new and improved items, frequency etc. I would suggest buying a small token that may help. This Valentines day I bought a small silk pouch full of scratch off cards called: "52 weeks of naughty nights" at pureromance.com (I bought other things as well - this was for "us"). There is also a 52 weeks of ...Romance which I just found tonight.
These cards are divided equally for him and her - We are on week 2. The first week - Her, the card read something along the lines of leave a sexy note everyday for H telling him to be ready for the weekend, each day increase the "sexiness if you will", by weeks end, he will be ready to explode. I was getting little love notes in my lunch everyday - I could hardly wait to open lunch and find it. This week is mine - the card read to offer myself to W as a sex slave and do whatever she desires on 1 nite - This has not happened yet but I can see her leading up to it - the anticipation is killing me If you asking - we were not like this before, we were not bad but not this exploratory if you will. I know thi sis not a complete answer for you or me but I think it is a great start which will lead to non-prompted LM sessions...
Another post that I loved here at the BB (It was Cemar's) had a link to the following site. This was for woman who are having trouble getting the H's attention. I would have to say if any woman followed this, her H would be Wow'd also. Link for woman to follow to get H's attention just my .02 MNDad
SuperDave put up a post about the shoe being on the other foot. While I think your list was really great for helping you discover what you want from a relationship, I hope you never give that to your wife. Imagine receiving a similar letter from your W. How would you feel? Here's an example:
Here's my list. It is similiar to most women. Note that none of these things are "new". He used to enjoy these things with me at one point or another.
----- begin -----
First, I love you tremendously and am addressing this to ensure that we have a wonderful, fulfilling life together. This "guide" addresses only one aspect of our relationship that I wish to improve but I strongly believe that other aspects are deeply intertwined.
My vision is that your shopping desire increases to a level near mine and that you become an active, enthusiastic partner in nurturing this part of our lives for many years.
I will try to indicate activity-intervals but this is very complex. For example, a week of intense shopping could precede a week of nothing. But to achieve the goals we probably need to force a little regularity.
Some ideas might seem silly but I hope you consider that it is not really the acts themselves but the mentality behind them. Somewhere in your ingestion process of a potential store to shop in, take a second to re-evaluate what I'm asking for and understand that I truly want to add some depth and color to the fabric of our shopping relationship.
Besides the enjoyment of shopping, I want to enjoy the fact that I'm married to someone who embraces new shopping experiences objectively, and faces challenges with enthusiasm instead of despair. If some stores push your current comfort level a little, then embrace it as a challenge and enjoy it.
With that said, the following list of behaviors would represent a near-equal exchange of physical interest and dramatically change the way I feel on many different levels.
1. Daily Reminders. You get an A+ for the effort you are currently making. I recognize this and really appreciate it. I recognize that you are doing some of these already but I'm just repeating them to indicate how much I like it.
* Make sure that once a day, you give me a really enthusiastic suggestion to shop in addition to regular ones.
* Occasionally mention how it would be nice to have the "little one" spend time at friend's (or relative's) house so we could shop together.
* Power Shop with me frequently. I love everything about power shopping with you, the way it looks and feels. If walking through store after store is an issue, then let's get you more comfortable shoes. Heck, I'll even buy you an electronic cart with a basket for Super Mall days. If you are concerned about crowds... I'll get you a cattle prod, etc.
* I really love it when you talk and chew the fat with me when shopping. I love it when we peoople watch together. I can't give you a specific example, but you do occasionally do it and it's really cool. Occasional things like this remind me that you can put your mind into "shopping mode" sometimes - it's very fun. I'm not asking for more of this but just letting you know I like it.
* Occasionally talk to me about some of the things in this list and how we can keep things "fresh" and enjoyable.
* Let me know where I can make positive changes to increase your shopping desire. It's very hard for me to do all the driving...take the wheel occasionally on this topic...even if it means writing instead of talking.
* Address some of the goals we are working on. Either privately or with me. Do a little research upcoming sale events and let me know you did...this would indicate that you really care about improving things.
* I respect that we should have some TV time, but if there's nothing on...let's take it as a cue to spend some time leafing through the circular ads.
3. Build Anticipation and Hope I would love it if you surprised me occasionally with a disclosure or a clue that you had thought about shopping all on your own. This could be the following but isn't limited to....
* The clipping of coupons...can range from news paper ads to joining direct mail lists.
* A disclosure about a new store.
* Buying a tote bag for shopping.
* Hiding a surprise in my suitcase before a trip. Like a 10% off coupon to Bath and Bodyworks.
* Letting me know what I can do to surprise you...I'm guessing you would want things a little more sports oriented than clothes oriented.
* Find a place for our daughter to play with the intention of spending time with me.
4. Honor Certain Days We should agree that certain days need to be "sacred". Knowing this, I will make extra certain that I'm not a buzzkill and you can prepare yourself and/or the schedule to make it work best. Here are the days I'm thinking of right now...
* The day before (or day of) a trip. I love to have a new outfit for my trip.
* The day when I return from a trip. It would be great to have my comfy clothes and slippers ready for me to erase the tension acquired by the travel.
* Special days like our Anniversary, Valentines, my birthday, your birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, Presidents Day, MLK day, Juneteenth, 4th of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day... these are great sale days. Although Thanksgiving Day sales and After Christmas sales are the best time to find deals.
6. Being Creative We should get a book on "shopping weekends for two" and be creative to keep it interesting and fun. I'm sure we will happily fail sometimes but that's ok because we will hopefully be keeping the game alive and trying something else a few days later.
* Once again, your research and purchase of a book like this would be really cool
* Collaborating with me would be nice too.
7. Initiation I would really be excited to have you occasionally take the lead and plan a time for a shopping trip.
* Give me a clue like a note, email or something. It might make setting expectations easier while making it fun for me. You will then enjoy how cool, calm, and relaxed (and probably more helpful) I am prior to it. I would like to do the same but would probably need you to communicate a timeframe that would work for you. let me know what things I can do to boost your desire to shop and minimize any "buzzkills" that might affect your desire as the time approaches.
8. Regular Intimacy I've invented 3 categories of "shopping sessions". Each one addresses different dynamics. I've thought carefully about how I feel, my thresholds, what triggers certain emotions etc. I've labeled these into 3 categories of "shopping time" or (I hate this term) "sessions".
C. Grocery Shopping (that say a little more) I love light shopping about every night, but a "GS" time would involve just a little bit more with about 10-15 minutes of finding fresh dinner ideas (more passionate) grocery cart pushing. A few times a week would be good. It is not expected to lead to a huge grocery haul unless you desire it to. I will always assume that night-time is sleepy time and not expect anything more than this unless you tell/clue me that its going to lead to more. Duration: 10-15 minutes Minimum Interval: Every 3 days. Substitutions: "A" and "B" time satisfy this minimum.
B. Fun "B" Time I would love to have regular sessions of window shopping at least once every 4-6 days (but the more the merrier). I'm uncertain of the mechanics of your desire but I definitely enjoy giving more than receiving and seeing your eyes light up in front of some sporting good store. While these times will be extremely enjoyable for me, I would gear these toward trying to connect you to the good feelings of love and togetherness. While there may be moments of deep euphoria at finding an unexpected sale, there should be a sense of freedom to communicate and explore all the sales have to offer. Some activities I would desire during this time would be.... * Asking for and encouraging impulse purchases * Quickies shopping trips at noon. * Trying on goofy hats, different outfits, and creating our own fashion line. * Despite the fact that it might just happen, I won't expect/force you to try on clothes outfits with me.
Duration: 30-60 min. Minimum Interval: Every 4-6 days depending upon past "C"s and "A"s. Substitutions: "A" sessions satisfy this minimum. "C"s extend the interval.
A. Power Shopping While "B" is geared more towards learning, play, exploration, and self discovery...an "A" session is a where we focus on the true art of shopping toegher as a couple and hone it to a science, utilizing the instinctual aspects of our repertoire while focusing on building mutual passion and thrill of the experience. This would typically involve traditional shopping but can also be achieved with passionate online browsing and ordering. For now, I would like more "B"s than "A"s because I think "B"s are good for building comfort, trust and new skills which I feel like we need. Duration: 30 min. - 2 hrs. Minimum Interval: Every 10-15 days depending upon past "B"s. Substitutions: Multiple "B" sessions satisfy this minimum. "B"s extend the interval.
9. Playtime To keep things diverse and fun, I would like you to be open minded to the idea of an occasional experimentation (such as bidding on items on EBay) while drinking wine and listening to some soft music. This could range from Kenny G and Chardonnay, to a little John Mayer and some Merlot...maybe you would like to buy me a leather wallet for all my credit cards :-). The fun is in the fact that you are open to this. How you would approach them is meaningful too. Some examples..
* Trying something that I buy. It would indicate that you are open minded and a good sport.
* Discover your favorite shopping site online. It would indicates that you thoughtfully considered your own physiology and pleasure points.
* Go shopping on your own and show me the great deals you found, or see how many pairs of great shoes you can buy with only $100. This indicates power and bravery along with all the other qualities I mentioned.
10. Boldness If you discover a shopping activity that increases your excitement then "go for it" without shyness or shame, explore and pursue it. You will never have to worry about judgment from me...I truly love you and want you to enjoy feeling groovy.
Conclusion I wouldn't be intensely stewing over this if I didn't completely and utterly love you. You are getting more of my focus and brain-power than anything else I ever engaged in. Trust me that I love you and will not hurt, embarrass, or humiliate you. My desire for you is to love yourself, love life, love shopping in every way, and generally feel powerful and fearless. You are such an incredibly great partner and friend.
Corri, you've got me on the floor laughing. This is brilliant.
My initial reaction to SuperDave's letter was horror, but I guess I was afraid to say it. As an LD wife I would feel utterly defeated by such a letter, especially if my H was not fulfilling ALL his household obligations to the T. I think I would conclude that the situation was hopeless. And maybe it is. But this letter would feel like an incredible burden.
Fulfilling the terms of this agreement would feel like slavery to me. Is there enough time in the week for all this?
Corri: I am so HOT to SHOP with you, baby. Let me reach right back here and slide this out for you to touch. That's right...it's my wallet, and you are welcome to that MasterCard right in front. I just hope that, when we go to the grocery store, we can take turns "pushing the cart," if you know what I mean. And, when we go clothes shopping, if I see a great rack across the store, maybe, just maybe could I convince you to go over there and take some clothes off it with me? And....oh....oh...oh, gosh darn it. I hate it when this happens. I dropped my wallet before I was done...and now I can't get it up.
