WAW not admitting to affair #3

[shodan]

Well, i did finally figure out how much she tallied on her credit card (she got her own CC that must go to her work about two months ago). I found it in her wallet after I did not see a big charge come through on our shared card. The check cleared to pay the bill....$5K+. so yes, my wife is funding her affair with our/my money. Lovely. I am a bit pi%%ed to say the least.

my anger is definitely growing b/c she is destroying our family. Her mom is beside herself and so sad (she knows about the BD and the A b/c I told her). She keeps saying that she has lost her daughter.

I need to keep this anger growing but still stay "loving", which seems somewhat illogical.

[shodan]

Another question...i am taking my kids to the cape next week. I booked us a nice hotel and am looking forward to the vacation. My W wants to come for part of it (she has to work for 3 of the 7 days). I know my kids want her there, but I feel this is cake eating. Should I be blunt and just say "until you are being honest with me and our family about what has been happening in NYC, you should not come with us."

[Wet]

Hi Shodan, first you have to protect yourself financially. Close the shared credit card. Yes, financial irresponsibility, even stealing is something I have seen in my sitch also.

I think you have the right idea about not letting your W go on the vacation at the cape. But I wouldn't mention what's "happening in NYC". Instead, I would say something along the lines of "I will not be with you on a vacation while you have made the choices you are making." Leave it vague and without any detail, and let her imagination fill in the details. Make this more about a boundary you are drawing, than about specific actions she did in NYC. I hope this helps.

[Nettles]

Why did you book the trip to the Cape? Seems punitive. If it was just you, no question, but it comes across as if the kids are weapons.

[shodan]

The trip was not punitive. I needed some time off. My wife is taking the following week off. I actually wanted it to be a family vacation where we could just be as a family. I was feeling soft and trying to be Plan A. My MIL even said that I should focus on what brought us together and show her a great future. But with all of the lies and deceit just piling on, it now seems like a bad decision on my part. I really s**k at this detaching thing.

shared CC: unfortunately, i don't have access to the card that she now has. When I asked about it, she said it was another example of me being controlling. So outside of filing a D and getting a freeze/restraining order on our assets, I am not sure what i can do. Spouses can have their own credit cards and bank accounts.

[Onguard]

Sho, I am in a similar situation. Although my waw has admitted to her A she is still ambivalent, at best, on our M. We have 2 kids and I am also having a very hard time detaching. I am constantly reminded of the good times we had because we have been together since age 13. It's still hard for me to accept that she doesn't love me the way I love her. I have been following your situation and it has given me strength knowing that I am not losing my mind. The pain is so intense that it's hard to think about anything but her.

Someone gave me some good advice recently. If you want to kill your wife's attraction for you then reach out to her. If your goal is to repulse your wife then pursue her. These 2 sentences have helped me to back off big time. I have been telling more of my friends who have been incredibly supportive. So, in my efforts to stop pursuing, when I get the urge to reach out, I call one of them instead. We don't need to file for D right now. We need to really execute the 180 first. Let them feel what life is like without us. Let them see us getting stronger and happier without them. Let them see that they are losing their power to hurt us. Let them realize that they are losing the control that they take for granted.

The other thing that has helped me is to realize that we are in a war right now. An emotional war with our spouses. My waw said something to me the other day that pissed me off and woke me up. She was upset that I had exposed her A to one of my friends. She accused me of making it seem like I was dumping her and said; "We both know that if I wanted this marriage to work that we would be together." She has all of the power and she knows it. She is convinced that plan B (me) will be here waiting if things dont work out with whatever she has as plan A. It hit me like a brick that I need to change that right away. Her strength comes from my weakness. I am giving our relationship 100% of my effort and attention so she has to give ZERO. I need to match her investment. I need to show her that we can BOTH walk away and start a new life. But we need to mean it too. It cannot be a bluff. Starsky and the others are right, we need to harness the anger and embrace the fact that starting over with someone new is better than being anyone's plan B. Sho, we are not plan B material. We were good husbands and fathers. We were not perfect but neither were our waw. They made the decision to cheat, not us. We are not responsible for their bad behavior. We deserve to be loved, respected and appreciated as equals. Anything less is unacceptable and demeaning.

My waw has hit me with both barrels but I am still standing. She emotionally abandoned me when I needed her most. She betrayed me by having an A and bringing him into our home. She is rejecting me even though her A is supposedly over. What more can she do to me? However, I have just begun to fight back. What will she feel when she realizes that I am not a given? When I find someone else? Maybe a younger woman? Maybe a woman with a successful career? Maybe both or one of each? It will be interesting to see if she can take it as well as she can dish it out.

[shodan]

onguard, thanks for the pep talk. My mood definitely sways with the winds. Some hours I am good, and then in others I am sad. I am trying to detach and just have fun. i read through your thread and agree that we have very similar sitchs. I know that I need to back off, which I do from time to time. but not all of the time. I just need to do it more and show her that I am moving forward.

Right now, she has no remorse and won't even admit to the A.

I struggle with finding friends with whom I can share this issue. If I tell them about the D and the A, I feel like they will judge my W and then she will find out and we will never get back together. But, I need people with whom I can share my feelings. The other issue I am having with GALing is everyone I know is married. All of my friends are married. So to ask them to get some beers on a Friday night will seem odd unless I share with them my switch. But I am not sure I want to do that at this time.

[25yearsmlc]

you are right, I am just feeling sorry for myself. I just don't want to lose my family.

I promise I will read your entire thread but I saw your comment about wanting to force your wife to agree to things she clearly will NOT agree to now.

Don't corner her when it's a no win situation. You won't like the choice you force upon her and even if she somehow "woke up" b/c you forced her to, you'll be right back here soon.

SHE has to make these choices and you cannot force her to. You are trying very hard to control things & people you have no control over.

Instead, figure out why she prefers OM (and that's assuming you are 100% correct in your A assumptions) and stop talking about him AT ALL.

Be the better choice. Become a man only a fool would leave.

Stop snooping and the stinking thinking has to be halted or you'll go nuts.

The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them. That just cements those in her mind and heart.

Back off.

GAL and I mean that with all my heart. GAL is mandatory to detach and detachment is needed for your own health.

Your kids are watching you and someday they will face a setback or betrayal.

Show them how a man of strength and honor handles a blow to his heart and ego.

Show them that although your pain is deep, it's NOT fatal and it's NOT eternal.

you will be happy again b/c you are responsible for your own happiness, just as they will be responsible for theirs.

Make sense?

[25yearsmlc]

Onguard,


just curious --have you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy books?

There is advice AGAINST exposure and I've never seen it work. A guy around here claims it worked for him but I don't know the details, i only know that it is NOT a practice advocated by MWD for Divorce Busting. There are many reasons for that if you are interested...

But really, I just suggest you choose AN approach and give it a fair shot,(= sufficient time) before giving up or mixing it up with another one, or mixing them together (which is unfair to both approaches).

Just my .02

[25yearsmlc]

Sho,

I have read your whole thread (Of course, it's familiar b/c I read it a week or so ago.)

You have gotten great a dice from your DB coach. Anything new there?

Also, I think your wife's comments about having LESS interest in NYC is darn positive. She's admitting work stresses her (which sounds true), she is at least saying and acting as if the kids are her priority, and those are positives.

She's also NOT asking you or the kids to move to NYC. To me that is huge.

As for her saying "Oh, I see the real you now!" when she sees your temper or snooping, sure there are valid reasons to doubt everything she says b/c of the A

but then, you need to communicate in some form...

(I know you have your A "proof" but other than the text and a trip somewhere with someone other than she said she was with, what is there? I'm not saying to draw a diagram, but how sure are you that it's an all out "soul mate/love of my life" affair?)

I MAY be in the minority here, but as annoying as lying is,

I see the lying about it a lot more favorable to you than her declaring "OM's the best man I ever met, My first real love, and..." blah blah blah.

And how do you know if it isn't fizzling out all by itself? Just throwing that out...

oh, and she probably won't come and say "I stopped the affair --the A I denied having."

But she MAY come out and say "let's work on the M".

If you still want to insist on getting her to admit to the A, I'm not sure what your benefit would be other than proving her wrong or feeling "right".

I DO understand your desire to have everything out in the open; I really do.

I'm merely suggesting you figure out all the reasons

for that IF she wants to stay m to you for real anyhow.



Why not run that^^ by your DB coach?

Also, your MIL's comments to you about your d and how She feels she "must not be a good girl" b/c of your criticisms, well Sho, it did break my heart. I know you were stung by that too and I feel for you. Ouch.

But don't minimize how that feels to a mother. It kills love pretty fast.

(Much as I hate having to say this, I know someone will pipe in about your wife's affair, b/c somehow they'll believe if someone gives you feedback about YOUR behavior, it amounts to defining your w's A. But No, I'm not defending it and indeed, I'm not even talking about the A. I'm saying there are factors at play here other than OM. He's a symptom not a cause.)

You have been doing some great personal work, and I hope you'll stay the course b/c it will pay off, regardless of your w's choices.

The very good news is that as your w sees you becoming a more loving father, she will be touched. Absolutely. To mothers, it's a turn on to see the children lovingly interact with their father. For many, that in itself is a reason to marry or stay married to a specific man.

That's why it's key to keep working on that. (B/C if you are, arguably or actually, destructive to your d, that's a handle you don't want your w to grab onto.

I don't want to think about what I'd have to do IF I really believed my h had a temper that was hurting our children, and he did not change it. Yikes...

Of course all your kids need you, but a kid who wondered if she was "good enough" for her dad b/c of his remarks to her, she really really needs to hear you tell her some good authentic things about her.

I know you've been working on that and it'll show.

And dont' worry about "showing" your w that. Your d will tell her!

Plus it'll show in your d, and the way you two interact, and your w WILL BE AFFECTED, no matter what she says (or does not say.)

Agree, I need to set my boundaries. I am not around tonight. Tomorrow I plan to go see a friend so I won't be around either. Today, I also told my W that I am booking a vacation with our kids in two weeks. She is taking off the following week and said she had not planned to be out for that week (would be two weeks out of the office if she did). I just want to show her that life is moving on with or without her.

What has changed in things she has said to me...she no longer wants to move to NYC. She said if she were single or if it was just the two of us, she would go. But with kids, that is a different story. She said it is not the right move for them. She also commented that her company has not provided her with a relo package and she knows they won't offer much more money, so it is not worth it.

What does this mean to me? I have no idea, so I won't even begin to project or try to get in her head. What I am writing this here then? Just to document it.

I think it's fair to say it's NOT BAD NEWS FOR YOU...

and in my opinion, it's good news. I think it's pivotal, but no, not yet a slam dunk. Your changes were needed, and I'm amazed at what a fast learner you are AND at how bravely you have listened to some feedback that a lot of us would have turned from (like your MIL's comments).

So in a way, this could be the best thing that ever happened to you.

I know how ironic^^ that sounds. I'm just telling you that the worst experience of my life was, in the end, a turning point for me in becoming a much better parent and wife, and much less of a bitter person.

If my h had not had his awakening I think those things would still be true.

So there's that. I hope you'll stay the course with your DB coach and keep at this. Good luck
.