WAW having an A but she denies it #2

[shodan]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2471264#Post2471264

It looks like my first thread is locked (not sure what that means) so I am starting a new one. Focusing right now on my kids and decided to get back into martial arts if I can find morning classes. I want to be the best dad, friend, son and H possible (although I need my W to end her A before we can discuss being a better H). We have not spoken in a few days, so it will be interesting when she returns on Saturday. The more I think about, the more I realize that she is in a daze/fog and is making very bad decisions due to this A. But, only she can realize that. No one else can tell her.

[Train]

Hey, sho.

I didn't get around to posting re: the "exposure" question at the end of your last thread.

I am in Starsky's camp on that one. Granted, I had already exposed the A by the time I came back here to the boards. I told my family (including our children - even S8 because he was on his dad's phone and read some disgusting texts), H's family and OW's place of employment (because she was on-duty when she gave her phone number to my H). And then I exposed the A to OW's H once it was clear the two were still sneaking around after they said they'd end the A.

I don't regret it.

I don't like shaming ANYBODY and ESPECIALLY the man I love. I take no joy in that at all. And I can take my lumps all day long. But I will never lie down and say that I deserved to be cheated on. No way, no how. And call it ego if ya want, but I was not going to let my H run around and trash ME by saying I was a POS wife, without gently telling people the REAL reason we were separated.

I also exposed because I think it shortens the duration of the A; a huge part of the allure is that it's shrouded in exciting secrecy. The fantasy can exist as long as it's secret. Exposure rains on the parade. It also makes "real-world problems" come along, which make them realize their affair-partner maybe isn't so perfect after all. They get to start seeing that person for who they really are.

I didn't shout my H's affair from the rooftops by any means. I wasn't PROUD my H was having an A. I was, actually, ashamed and humiliated. I also made sure to tell anyone I told that I took responsibility for my part of the breakdown of our M, and I was open about my "contributions." I also told them I would be willing to work on my M as soon as the A ended.

I'm not suggesting it works for everybody. But it worked for me.

My H is home, and our relationship is growing stronger each day. We're hitting bumps along the way, but none of those have been attributed to the fact that others know of the A.

Be careful WHO you tell - and, outside of family, I wouldn't say anything unless prompted or asked. And maybe this is a moot point now, but I did want to share my experiences, especially since Starsky - who makes THREE smart cookies - mentioned them in your last thread.

Hope you're well. You sound like you're in a good place, considering the circumstances.

[Drew]

"25,

With all due respect, did you even READ his initial post? It's ALL ABOUT the positive changes he made. Meanwhile, his wife PLAYED HIM.

There was nothing "lucky" about a strong hybrid approach of positive self-improvement mixed with strong boundaries and self-protection. It's worked for PLENTY of people around here, including some current sitches (like Train's, just off the top of my head).

The OM may not be the CAUSE, but he is most certainly the most immediate OBSTACLE.

Starsky"

[25yearsmlc]

I understand why you did what you did.

Do you understand why MWD and Div Busting advises AGAINST it? And do you see that confronting your SPOUSE about an affair is a lot different than involving 3rd parties?

I strongly oppose exposing to 3rd parties. Almsot 100% of the time I oppose it b/c I think it's almost 100% of the time that it comes from a place of wounded pride/ego and a desire to punish,

and not a place of love or self respect, (though that is what we tell ourselves.)

IN fact, We justify a lot of "teaching them a lesson/showing them the consequences" of their choices and we rationalize it quite well.

But per my DB coach, "it's NOT OUR JOB to teach our spouses a lesson or show them consequences of their actions.

LIFE does that for them."

Besides, it's too tempting to use those rationalizations to vindictively seek revenge, all under the guise of being "noble & Honest"....

I could see if there were legal ramifications, then and only then would I tell the necessary parties. But telling an 8 y/o? Sorry but that sickens me but hey, he's your son, not mine.

So, How'd it work out for you?

The times I have seen it, it backfires. Here's one TRUE example of how that works.

My HS class has a fb page which makes reunions a lot easier to plan.

A LBW posted on our class page not to "let OW steal your h like she stole mine last year".

Both OW and H were classmates. Other people in our class messaged me to delete Ow's post (b/c I administer the class page)

and they ALL said things along the lines of how "inappropriate" and 'weird" and "angry/bitter" the wife sounded.

Right or wrong, not one person expressed sympathy for the wife OR anger at the h or OW. Not one.

Have you read why Div Busting goes against this?

Are you really familiar with her reasons?

My main point here isn't just how bad it makes the wronged spouse look to the general public, but I think that can matter.

I think it's a bad idea b/c it does NOT help the situation at all.

The truth would have been revealed in time anyhow, and if it were simply a fling, now telling others just cements it into something more, so it's going to be stronger not weaker. It often pushes the spouse into the arms of OP MORE, not less.
The more people who know, the harder it is to come back from.
Is the goal to keep the road home, paved and smooth (per my DB coach) or to punish them?

I'm NOT saying they don't have to earn our trust back, but I am saying that shaming them is no way to get them home.

The momentary pleasure you might feel will pale, over time, when the world/your kids see you as the messenger of evil news, and possibly the cause of it ("See? She's such a bitter woman of course I had an affair!"---and yes I have seen that said and believed, too often to count).

Your kids are not blind or stupid. Why be the bearer of news that ruins the hero they have in their dad? B/C you don't want him to be admired by them? That hurts THEM as much or more than it hurts him...and

it greatly lessens the chance he'll come home; it does NOT increase it.

Shaming them fails.

If it worked, MWD would advise in favor of it.


Starsky says it worked for him (& I believe him) but there are 2 things you must remember:

1) he also worked on himself, big time, AND his wife had seen that and

2) he's not typical.

I think there will be a time that you regret it and even if there isn't, there will be a time that you see the pain inflicted on your kids and you'll know it could have been less if you'd handled it all differently.

No, I am not defending your h and if he lied about you to justify his A, then I would have warned him to stop doing that or you'd be forced to defend yourself.

But the way you are making it sound IS as if you did derive pleasure from it.

I could be wrong of course, and I'm Sorry, but that's how it reads to me.

[shodan]

Train, thanks for the feedback and input. I would say that I am in an OK place, trying to be a PapaBear for my family. What really stinks is I miss being together as a family. Since early May, things have not been right. I suspect that my W started this A before May. We have not been doing too much together but when we do, before I knew about the A, it has been pretty great. But now that I know about the A, I cannot get that feeling back until she ends it and we work on our M. I know I need to take the hard line, I know that I need to be tough. I know I need to GAL but I felt like I had it all before this happened. A great family, great wife, great job, etc. I know we did not spend enough together as H and W, but I figured that was the growing pains of M and having two kids, 10 and 7. I honestly never knew how unhappy my W and that it would/could end our M. So part of me wants to show her just how great things can be/are, but it is hard to do that when I know about the A and she is not being truthful. I want to send her a pictures of the kids doing fun things with me (I did this before I knew about the A) and text her on Saturday to say "meet us out at X place" and order a bottle of wine for us. But I know I cannot do that.

So what motivates me is that I know my kids love our family. Living in separate homes and not having a Mom and Dad at dinner together is not a family. I love our family. So I need to be strong.

Thank you to everyone for their continued encouragement and advice.

[25yearsmlc]

Drew

I don't know who you are quoting.

I give Starsky a lot of credit for work HE has done. I still believe his approach is unique but he'll admit it's not DBing's teachings he's following too much.

This post did not reveal work the poster had done and I've only read some of the thread but what I read in that post was sufficient for me to address. That is all I addressed.

Besides, I am a proponent of DB works, not another approach.

What approach are you citing? IF it's not DB, then admit that and say so. It's not "wrong" per se but its not DB.

I have not seen a lot of success with exposing to 3rd parties which I'm honest about. (I am not referring to confronting a spouse, but to third parties).

[Train]

25,

If your long post was addressed to me instead of sho, we can pick back up on my experiences over in my thread, "Train, roll on." That's if you're truly interested instead of just trying to bait.

I don't post a lot there because my M is in piecing now. Because of that, however, I'll continue to share my experiences - and what worked for me - with people on these boards. Are you even familiar with my sitch, 25? I don't recall you ever responding to any of my thread posts.

I respect you and your wisdom and experiences. But I think your tact is quite lacking.

[Train]

sho,

And what you said up there about the A changing things? Yeah. It does.

I think you've got it right.

[shodan]

Per usual train, thank you for your input. I am going to focus on creating a great environment at home for my kids and do 180s without being totally "friendly" to my wife. I need to be an awesome papabear and save my family.

Once she ends this A, we can go back to repairing our R.

[Train]

Yes, sho.

I think SO many of us are blind-sided when As happen. Looking back, we can see that things maybe weren't as great - or steady-going - as we thought. Good ol' hindsight, eh?

I think that's why some people say that after an A is over, it can actually be one of the best things to happen to a M. Or, at least it can make a M a lot stronger. These "scares" cause us to wake up every day, deliberately trying to meet our spouses' needs in a way we didn't before. At the same time, they cause us to dig deep to remember the people we really are ... who are the people our spouses fell in love with.

Who was THAT sho? I could be wrong, but judging even from your very first posts, I expect he was strong and confident.

Sounds, too, like you're a romantic. And W got to see that in you even recently. Good!

Those "old-flame As," from what I've read, die hard. So brace yourself for that, of course.

But you just be the man your family needs, always keeping the family's best interests at heart. You have a great head start.

Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"? It was recommended to me here at the beginning of my sitch and really helped me a lot.