living with WAW who hasn't walked yet (4)

[zew]

OK here's W's latest scheme.

W wants password to phone account "because she needs to look up a client's number that she forgot".

I said I'd send her a dump of the call records. She asked again for the password.

So clearly, the posse wants to look through my call records. (where they would see calls to L, and GAL stuff.)

If I don't give them the password, then clearly I'm hiding something. (They are accusing me of having an OW because I went out to GAL on Sunday. Therefore, W, you should leave Zew, because he's cheating on you, and see how controlling he is, and you're justified in having an A.)

See how this works, and keeps spiraling downward?

So, I'll respond with her call log and this:

W, while you're having an A in our M, you don't get access to the family accounts. Period.

But there comes the denial again. And Zew's the bad guy again. Am I wrong to think that this would be easier if A was acknowledged?

Starsky, I'm thinking the nuclear option you used may be the only option for this case. Otherwise this is just some endless BS dance.

[SemperFi00]

Maybe I shouldn't care. I should just be walking my way down the road, regardless.

zew, have followed your situation a little bit and can certainly hear the pain, frustration, etc... that you are experiencing. I think that none of us would choose to live thru what we are currently faced with however........ this is out currently reality.

As tough as it is (and I am by no means a dB expert), I think what you typed in your previous post is what will serve you best to stay focused on. Walking your own road is really the only thing that you can control.

I can't say from direct experience, but certainly understand your desire to expose the A and maybe change some of the pain. I would ask one question, is there anything about your W's current behavior that would indicate the exposure would change anything?

Thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong!

[dingo]

I think you're doing a lot of mind reading and what if'ing - spinning things around in your head trying to find the angle that's going to get her to admit the affair and then end it.

Thing is, if she admits it, she may still not end it. If she admits it to you, she may continue to deny it to everyone else. While it probably would be better if she did admit it, she doesn't look like she's going to.

I don't think you're being consistent with you actions. If you know - then act like you know. Stop being 'nice zew' and be 'dim zew' - all of the time. Stop worrying about how she can turn that around onto you.

[zew]

Thanks, Dingo.

I think you're right.

I have to go back to what I texted her a couple of months ago:

"I can't work with you until you're honest with me. Then everything is on the table. If you can't be honest, you've made your choice."

That's a pretty simple message to stick to.

[indigo1]

I agree with the above. If you know beyond a shadow of a doubt she is having a A then act like it. She needs to know she cant have you both and be clear on that. W might want nothing to do with you right now, but keep being the better man you want to be and let her see you happy without her. She needs to know you will not share her and until she is committed to working on M with you alone you're done. This does not mean being a d**k to her, just try to seem happy with yourself. Get a new haircut and buy some nice new clothes.

I was in a similar situation not very long ago though it was a EA. I was lied to over and over. It did not end until I laid my foot down as hard as it was to do. It will not end over night, it took a couple months to completely go away for me, but it did.

I must add that I had made positive changes to myself that W had noticed and had time to believe were the real deal. If W is still very mad with you now may not be the time to lay down the law, but she needs to know that she can not have you both. Can you move out for awhile and give this time to sink in for her? I'm not very sure of your situation just read the last few pages.

[indigo1]

Take that back, you should not move out. She is the one having fun on the side not you. Spare room at least,certainly not same bed if that is still the case!

[sandi2]

You said it was too bad that confrontation doesn't work. Work how? I think I told you it was not an automatic fix. You have to have something more than simply approaching and telling her you know about the A. And the idea of confronting her......to seek admission from her seems kind of......empty! IMO. That is why she has continued to deny it and you continue to be frustrated.

I still say your big hang up is the idea that she's lying and thinks your buying. You want her to know that you know. So tell her you know. But do NOT present some "plan" or a list of options for her to choose. She chooses you or the A.

Need I remind you that she is not in the frame of mind to listen to all that stuff you listed? And she sure doesn't give a flip about your needs.....or even working on the M. Don't give her a five point outlined sermon. It is not the time. Keep it simple. If she chooses you, then that discussion can come later.

But what if she doesn't choose you.....or plays the same old hand as before? You MUST be prepared to take some type of action, Zew! Enough with the talks!

I believe Dingo made a very good point about the evidence you gathered. What do you plan to do with it? You just want to have something as proof to stck in her face,trying to force her to admit her A. That is what it all boils down to.....and what has been eating away at you this entire time. So, if she tells you to believe whatever you want.....then what will you do? It can be difficult to force her to admit an A or to it end. You have to have some kind of leverage. Even if she admits it.......what have you got other than an admission.

Starsky knew what would hit close to home for his WAW. Plus, he did a fantastic job at bluffing at how much proof he had. However, he was not all talk. He was prepared to carry through with action. That is the main point you need to realize in your stitch.

I don't usually encourage exposure unless the wayward W has refused to end the A.......and the M is clearly headed for D. I don't see exposure as a solution (in itself) to fix the M. It is telling the truth to chosen people that she had been lying to. Or, you can expose the A just between the two of you. But it won't cause her to fall into your arms when you do it. I doubt it will cause her to break down and repent right then & there. There is a good chance it won't end her waywardness.....and she may leave at that point. Which is okay as long as you know it could go either way.

So yeah.....go ahead with confronting her with solid evidence of her unfaithfulness. But you better have a plan for further action........for Zew. And don't tell what all you are going to do.

And I am moving on. I guess I'd like her to understand my reasoning, and that she has something to do with it and some choice in the matter, rather than just have her wonder why I'm out without her, or call me an a$$hole that's trying to make her life miserable because he never loved me, etc. etc.

I don't understand what you mean here. Is this part of your reason for wanting to expose? Whether it is or not, do you think that telling her these reasons will matter to her? You are speaking as if she were the girl you M. She's not.

[zew]

Moving out requires filing or else you screw yourself for custody. W and I both know this, so neither of us will EVER move out, which makes this all the harder. (no separation in this state)

[Devaste]

Hey Zew

I'm not an expert at all, but I do know that I exposed the affair to my WAW's family, and it didn't change her actions one bit. This was pretty much right after I found out, and asked her to leave the house. I made a lot of mistakes that first month, but I'm trying to learn.

I would agree with Starksy you should have the talk where you tell her you know with the hand etc, but just remember that there is a high chance she will not change anything she is doing. She just won't care enough to change her behavior.

Obviously, you've been thrown for a loop, and much like myself, feel the affair is a f&$&$ing major stumbling block for the WAW to move past and start to realize what they are losing. It's like relationship Disneyland to have a M and cake eat and then have an A on the side. So I would surmise that we tend to focus our efforts on ending the A, because we think that is the only problem. What I'm starting to realize is that even if my W ended her A, I'm not sure she would chose to even attempt a R again with me. But that's out of my control and same for you. We need to keep working to continually improve ourselves so that we are ok no matter what happens

Exposing the A will not change her behavior I don't think, because it sounds like she is in denial anyways. She will just not talk or avoid people that know. She will justify her A however she needs in order to maintain her relationship, utilizing "evil zew". Don't give her that chance by focusing on yourself, so easy to say and yet so hard to follow.

Cheers

Devaste

[zew]

Hi Sandi,

I still say your big hang up is the idea that she's lying and thinks your buying. You want her to know that you know. So tell her you know.

It's not that I need her to know that I know. It's that I think that if it's exposed (only to her), then she becomes aware that my actions are in that context.
Again, she is convinced that by denying it, I have no reason not to believe her.
So if I were to file right now, she'd say "See, he never loved me, because he doesn't know about A, so what else could drive him to that?" If the A were obvious, she might say, "Hey, my A is causing me to lose something here." Maybe I'm wrong on the what if's, maybe she'll never have a logical thought again, but it seems to be the way she behaves.

For example, she's called three times while I've been writing this, all to get the password for the phone account, under the guise of needing a client's number from last month, in spite of my repeated offer of the last month's records for her phone.
In the last call, she asked if I was reluctant to give her the password because I had something to hide. You see, it has nothing to do with her records, the posse wants to look at mine. Because I am now going out some nights without her and GAL, she assumes I have an OW. I'm not going to subject myself to the scrutiny of the posse. And my thinking is that if the A were in the open, she might more easily accept that I am going out because there is nothing for me at home while the A is going on.

It was the same thing last month when she asked for a year's worth of bank statements. I'm not having that stuff go all over town. And as long as there is no proven A, then she continues down the "he's hiding something, and he has no reason not to show me" line as opposed to the "I'm not in this M, he has absolutely no reason to trust me, so I shouldn't be that surprised that he doesn't want to show me his bank statements" line.

So she spins up the "he's hiding something" with her friends, they repeat it, and I honestly think she believes it. I may be completely incorrect that she would assume any responsibility for what is happening if the A were in the open. But that's what's driving me there. It's not as simple as "I want you to know that I know". It's that I think it may take away the ability to deny responsibility.

And I am moving on. I guess I'd like her to understand my reasoning, and that she has something to do with it and some choice in the matter, rather than just have her wonder why I'm out without her, or call me an a$$hole that's trying to make her life miserable because he never loved me, etc. etc.

I don't understand what you mean here. Is this part of your reason for wanting to expose? Whether it is or not, do you think that telling her these reasons will matter to her? You are speaking as if she were the girl you M. She's not.

I'll restate to clarify.

And I am moving on. I guess I'd like her to understand that I have gone dim because I am letting go, and that is because I won't share her, and that she has some choice in that matter. Currently she wonders why I'm out doing things without her. She believes that the reason I don't pay $5000 a month on her CC bill is because I'm an a$$hole and I want to make her life miserable; not because we just can't afford that.

So, while I don't mean to be obstinate, and really, I do hear you when you tell me she won't listen to anything I say, and I won't convince her of anything right now, I also know she has some very wrong impressions of "what I think", and sometimes I think that if this stuff got written out, that maybe when her friends or her T look at it, someone might say, "Hey, this doesn't quite match what you're saying." So I get it, really, that she won't listen. But I also know that everything I do, absolutely everything, gets run by the posse multiple times daily. So I'm not just dealing with her anymore. It's me vs the crowd. And it is probably unlikely that I can get any influence with any of them.

And as I said yesterday, every line in that speech addresses a misconception of hers in her language. Agreed that none of that matters to her now.

Maybe it's this simple:

I love you far too much to settle for only part of you. I need all or nothing.
You won't give me all of you, so I'm letting go.

You can't have both of us.
If you want to change the path we're on, end A then we can move forward. However, I can't wait forever.

And I just go as dark as possible. And the whole while, she doesn't understand why I'm moving on. And then one day, it's over.

Or, you can expose the A just between the two of you. But it won't cause her to fall into your arms when you do it. I doubt it will cause her to break down and repent right then & there. There is a good chance it won't end her waywardness.....and she may leave at that point. Which is okay as long as you know it could go either way.

Agree on all points. Highly unlikely that she leaves yet because she is worse than broke, still with months before her first commission, and she won't leave kids. So unless one of the posse agrees to put she and the kids up, she will never leave the house. And I agree it may not stop A. All I really want is that she understand that things are unwinding because of A, and that is her choice. At least for a while, I'm sure it is just what she wants.

So tonight, when I go home, I'll have to deal with the phone password. And she will have no idea why she doesn't "have a right to the family account" (her words)
Well, it's because she's not part of the family right now, followed by denial.