22 Years; He's Filed: Need Advice on Boundaries

[GoatGal]

Well, I slipped this morning.

Got an email from H asking that I change our streaming video account to "my" credit card.

All our cards are held jointly, he doesn't use his, except one. That should have been a clue.
He is paying the bills. Both our names are on all accounts, but we have different cards.
We discussed this before and he swore he was not going to try and saddle me with debt, nor cut me off financially. We agreed (I thought) that any changes in our financial situation would be discussed together, yet ultimately he has complete control. His style would be to try and "sneak" in changes slowly, thereby avoiding discussion or conflict.

Immediately my heart started to pound, I felt sick to my stomach, my hands were--ARE----shaking.
(So much for my detaching! I was right back to ground zero in a flash. I think the detaching goes in waves. Some days I almost don't care. Other days, like today, I find myself in a panic.)

My thoughts went like this:

OMG---he is starting to try and separate our spending/debt during this time because he is moving towards a total splitting of our finances in preparation for the BIG D!

That thought led to:
OMG, all my DB is not working! Thought things were calming down!
What happened yesterday to make him do this?
What difference does it make, he's paying for it?
Is he planning to try and stick with me this debt after D?
I'll never be able to pay it. I'll have to declare bankruptcy! Doesn't he know that? How can he do this to me? Does he not care AT ALL????
Doesn't he see how he's destroying everything?

Incidentally, for the last several years I have not "worked" in the traditional sense. I have been a Jill of All Trades, picking up DJ/teaching/music gigs and basically running the farm and dog rescue at home. We talked about me working part time often over the years, but he always said we'd save money if I didn't because it would bump us up into a higher tax bracket, being a wash.

So I am COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on his income at this time. And I do get freaked out. I'm 54, the job market [censored], chronic pain condition... my options are limited.



And THOSE freak-out thoughts led to a total scouring of our accounts, credit cards, phone records, to see if he'd called his lawyer, his former "Friend" (they still work together!), or any "evidence" that would give me a handle on what *might* be going on.

What did this do for me?

NADA. Unless you count feeling even more nauseous and stressed at every turn. AND--I found NOTHING that was good or bad. Just the usual expenses and calls.


I told myself not to go there---but I felt compelled. And now, even though I found nothing, I feel worse.

So what everyone says is true--the SNOOPING DOES NOT HELP.
Really, it doesn't.

What DID help was:

Reminding myself that it's just something he said. Believe NONE OF IT.

He simply could have been pissy about not living at home and being able to enjoy those movies because I kicked him out. He'd been out with our friend and had a few drinks. Sent this email late at night.
Who knows. WHO CARES?

I remind myself: I'll be fine. I will survive. It's not over til it's over. I have a great lawyer. I have legal rights.
I CHOOSE TO BE HAPPY.

Period.

Definitely true that our thoughts drive our emotions.

My question is: How do I respond to this email?

My first thought was:
Don't.
Followed by: Don't. Until I calm down and I'm not reactive.
Then I thought I'd just say "sure" but never "get around to it".

Or "Sure!" and make the change. Just let it be. (This is my #1 choice now.)

I thought about adding:
"If you're planning on phase one to start splitting up our debts with the intent of making me pay for my expenses after a divorce, that's your choice, but please let me know so I can curtail my spending. There is no way I'll ever be able to pay any of this back and I want to avoid bankruptcy."

That sounds like thinly veiled guilt-inducing, sanctimonious crap. So I won't say that.

But I want to know if that's his plan because I do travel a lot---because he wants me to---but no way will I be able to pay those expense back after a D.

How do I go about this without putting him on the defensive but finding out what I think I need to know?

Thanks!

--GG

[GoatGal]

I am waiting for advice before I respond to his email...

Here's one thing I did right:

I went through this by myself, and did not engage with him.
I got on here and started writing instead of firing off a response to him when I was upset.

I am getting better and better at that.

And I see clearly that my actions to start checking everything for clues was counter-productive to my PMA.

He will be here in a while and IF I talk to him when I'm worked up, he will see I'm upset by my tone and my expression.

I am working on keeping my emotions to myself. I am not a good liar generally, and terrible when it's about something emotional.

Meanwhile, my strategy is to NOT be around him until I am able to get myself into my "Happy Place!!"

(And that whole thing about vibrating at a higher level is true! I was way up there yesterday and I swear, everywhere I went people were smiling at me, talking to me out of the blue...I was "open" and "happy" and this seems to be infectious.)

Happy Place--Here I Come! I have my tricks... playing ukulele on the sunny deck serves two purposes. It makes me happy, and he can hear it. He KNOWs that I'm happy if I'm playing.

That'll work.

[GoatGal]

I'm going to keep journaling here and hope I get some feedback.

I know there are lots of people on this forum who need help, so I'm just using it as a tool to get it all out there. I'm doing pretty well so far, but I could really use some wisdom because I'm trying to figure this all out on my own.
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Yesterday was WEIRD. I got into my "happy mode" when H was here. He is supposedly ONLY here "for the animals" but he kept coming around where I was and walking in and out of what is now "MY" living area like he'd never left.
I was honesty happy with my day once I got into it, playing the hot jazz I love, bopping around the house, singing, cleaning up for him being here and doing nice little things for him (making an appetizer plate, setting out clean towels and sheets for him since he was staying on the couch, clearing off half the bathroom sink for his stuff, putting out a vase of fresh flowers, all things I would do for any "guest" I cared for.) all this with no expectations--just enjoying my day, and doing what I do.

And---he did a lot of nice things for me without my asking... talked a lot about work, stuff he wanted to get done, what I thought about new light fixtures for the house, (that neither one of us will be able to keep if we D!), just sort of talking to me more than he has in YEARS. He was actually following me around talking non-stop. It was BIZARRE... It was freaking me out, because I kept thinking we were going to get into R land and I really didn't want to go there.

So I listened. And listened. And listened some more. Validated... all good. I left the room first, cut it off first, all that stuff.
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I had a friend's birthday party last night, something he'd never go to even prior to BD, and he was going to stay here at the house to "pet-sit for me". (That's what he calls it. I think he just wants to be here.)

I made a point of looking fantastic when I went out the door, hair done, perfume, a flattering brightly colored short dress, the whole enchilada. I even asked his opinion on which high heels to wear! (He chose the pink ones. Good choice!)
Truth is--he hasn't looked at me in years, not as a whole person or attractive woman, so I was trying to get him to finally "see" me. And he did.

I left him alone to "have a GREAT night!" with the dogs...and I also
left some things around that I'm sure he saw, like the card from my old college friend (male) who I visited last week, the brochure on the RVs and trade-in value on my vehicle (my first--and maybe best--living alternative if we D), my to-do list which included things that support his vision of us going our separate ways, like looking into the cost of COBRA for health insurance, etc.

I had a great time at the party and got home around 2 AM.
He and I chatted a bit and it was obvious he'd been here "drinking and thinking". (Don't ask me how I know, we've been together almost 30 years.)
I could almost see the smoke coming out of his ears...
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This morning was more of the same.
He no longer lives here but he's "allowed" to come and go from the basement since that's all he needs to do to complete his chores while he's here. Yet here he was, coming upstairs into "my" part of the house without asking, just like he still lived here. Hanging around me, chatting me up.
Traditionally, he has texted "Can I come up?" from the lower level because I've said I need to have my space respected, that I need some kind of sanctuary.
Today, he was acting as though nothing had ever happened.

I'm not sure what to make of this.

I was almost shooing him out the door, saying "go enjoy your day! It's beautiful outside..."

(It's his birthday today. He didn't acknowledge mine, but I just couldn't do that to him so I left him a simple card last night. The card was already printed with "I hope you get what you want" and I wrote, "I mean this", and also "Nothing was 'appropriate", and 'Nothing' was inappropriate, so it's just this card and a simple wish for you." And I meant it.
He thanked me for it this morning.)

He asked again about my thoughts for completing the remodel and unlike pushing my usual opinion I said, "that's a great idea, let's see how that might work out...let's think about it." (Hey I was functioning on a few hours' sleep and wasn't quite ready for the "Relationship Games" first thing in the morning. I've learned how to stall--nicely!)

I just don't get why any of this would matter if we were just going to sell the house... I'm trying not to think about that too much and just let it stew subconsciously. But if one or both of us wasn't going to be here, who the heck CARES what color we paint the bathroom?
Oh well.
--------------------------------------------

I called my Mom to wish her a Happy Mother's Day, and she mentioned his birthday, to tell him she wished him well.
I told him this and he was surprised, as I was.
(Last conversation with her she called him an "a**h#@le".)

I guess he assumes she hates him, and I know she was angry when all this happened, but as I said to him, she always loved him like a son and she always will. That she understands people can make mistakes. (My father was a cheater--whooo boy is there a back story there!)

She is not happy with his behavior, but she still loves him. (Like me.)
I thought it was important to let him know this, and also that it's really about how he treats me NOW, that matters to her.
(And me. But I didn't say that part. I am getting a lot better at STFU!)
The door really IS open for him with me, my family, our friends; if he chooses to do the right thing by me. People make mistakes. It's how they handle those mistakes that really matters in the end.
I gently alluded to this fact... and then STFU... to let it sink in. Hopefully.

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But here's the best part and I didn't even realize it until now.

On one of my recent trips it appears I'd gotten a ticket for something I have no idea about.
He usually would have texted me a "what the heck is this?" sort of message. BUT---

HE CALLED ME!

I realized, this is huge.

I called him back, left a voice mail... but now I'll slowly start to work my way back into phone land. (His preference historically.)
It's a big step up.

[GoatGal]

Typical...

So here we are on Sunday and he's finally hanging around me, chatting me up, smiling, talking like nothing had ever happened between us, (which has been one of my goals; that I was able to be relaxed and happy around him so he would feel comfortable too), and he said ONE THING that keeps running around in my brain.


With the job market as it is, he has been approached by head-hunters. And that if he wanted to further his career, "I would have to move.". He said this twice, not that I'm counting. :0

He's said the same thing prior to BD, that taking a new position would mean re-locating. But it was the "I" part that bugged me.

I tried hard to not make much of this, after all, I am planning for my possible single life too.

He ended it by stating that he wouldn't want to do that, at this stage in life he doesn't want to start all over in a new area, low man on the totem pole, only to get canned in a year when they restructure...


I didn't freak out. I just kept thinking: "Listen and validate. Listen and validate. I don't have to agree... if I get stuck, just say 'I need to think about that some more and get back to you..."

Gosh this is hard.

And I still have not replied to that email.

I'm starting to think it wasn't important to him, maybe just a crabby moment about me watching Netflix (in the lap of luxury-- NOT!) while he's living in a friend's spare room. Who knows?

I am still waiting for the big discussion about him moving back into the basement. As of next weekend the second full bath will be fully functional, and it's only a matter of time after that.


So I am watching and waiting and just being passive about him, active about myself. That's not easy to do...

[GoatGal]

Quick note:
I almost forgot!


Short story: He needs a knee replacement. It was scheduled until I discovered OW and then put off indefinitely.

It came up again yesterday and I said that as long as he had the good health insurance from his company he might think about taking advantage of that since it could end any time.

I said as long as we were relatively stable we could work it out so he could get that done. He said, "Well, yeah, but I'd have to live here." I said we could probably work that out because it was important. And left it at that.

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Part Two:

The Porn Problem.

We have not discussed our computer situation since the last big blowup about his addiction. Today, seemingly out of nowhere, he was discussing his laptop (mistress) the old PC, my new laptop, opening this whole discussion about what should be where and used how.... no discussion of the porn issue, but talking about sharing printers, revamping the old PC for all our old pictures and videos... again I was not operating on all cylinders so I'm still processing what this was about.

But we have NOT talked about his new fancy laptop since we both know the only reason he got it was for his porn...
Again, I tried to just STFU, listen, validate... it gets easier.

I am still really confused, but I think after a few days it might make more sense.


One thing I can say for sure: HE IS CHANGING. Something is changing.
Right now, I can't say good or bad, but different for sure.

And I still choose to be happy.
Every friggin' day.

---GG

[GoatGal]

Oh, and the doing nice little things got him before I left Saturday night was because I read the Five Love Languages.
I had to guess at his, but he has always been big on acts of service, gifts, and words of affirmation--- towards me.

So I have been doing those things for him in a very casual open-ended way that is low key and doesn't require any response from him.

So far, so good.

I realized my top one is physical touch, and realized that I have never had that need met in this relationship.
Sad.

[GoatGal]

Well, the phone call plan is working.
He called me first thing this morning and usually on Mondays he is MIA.

He called later on because I missed first call; didn't check my phone because I assumed I wouldn't hear from him and checking for communication from him often leads to disappointment.

So was I shocked to see two VM from him!

I guess we're back to talking on the phone, which is a lot more personal than texting.

It was one of my goals, to feel comfortable talking to him on the phone, and although I anticipate some awkward exchanges, it's an improvement.

It is harder though, to think on my feet with tone of voice and quick responses.
Practice makes perfect...

[Italian]

I feel you - I've realized I feel much better if I stay in no contact. Hearing from Ex just upsets me and gets me obsessing again, setting me back. No contact is really helping me, I'm lucky I don't need to speak to him for anything and can just delegate the stuff that needs to be sorted out to my mother.

[GoatGal]

Thanks, Italian!

(Meanwhile, somewhere around here you said about having salami slices over your eyes--I loved that!)

Update for Today:

I got an email from H; he found that in spite of the whole house remodel we could still refinance the house at a lower rate because this new offer doesn't require an inspection.
This is very good news since rates are so much lower now.

However, one discussion we've had is that after a D, one or the other of us would have to refinance to get the mortgage solely in one name, and I didn't think that could happen until it was in a sellable condition.
(Right now it is gutted.)
I saw that as a deterrent to a D. I guess now that is void.

Anyhow, I think it's a great idea to refinance, and said so.

I am not going to worry about whether or not he's going to try to put it in his/my name alone now. It's irrelevant. If that's his plan, I will not allow it, but I don't think it is at all.

I'm pretty sure he'd need my permission. If he wanted to do this and didn't need my permission, he would have already done it.

Supposedly his lawyer strongly recommended that he split our finances and deny me access to joint accounts, close my credits cards, supposedly to "protect him from my potential actions". He can do that legally.

I am proud of him that he said "No" to doing that to me.
And so far, he's stuck by it.

I have never given him cause to believe that I would try and mess with our finances or take any vindictive action. He knows me well enough to know that's not something I would do, except to protect myself.

I have a really strong personal code of ethics, and once I got over the initial shock and vented all my emotions, I made up my mind that I was going to behave in accordance with those ethics, no matter what he did to me. That thought alone has kept me on track when I was about ready to veer off.

"If I do X--how will I feel about myself when all this is said and done?"
This thought works for me.

But---about the refinancing email:

He *SAID* "we" could refinance the house, how "we" could benefit from the reduced rate, and how "we" should discuss all the options, "no matter what happens with the house."

Even though it's just words, I am pleased he was framing this in terms in what is best FOR US, and the mention of the disposition of the house down the road is just that--a mention.

I always phrase things that way, because it suggests that I've got one foot out the door...and that our future is up in the air at this point.
And both those things are true, more true some days than others.

It's an important part of my overall stance: I don't want a divorce, but I won't stop him if he still wants one when he can legally get one.
The fact is, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't really love me and who doesn't really want to be my husband.
And although this was my "AS IF" at first, now it is truth.

Also true is that part about taking all the time the law allows to make my decisions before I consent to a D. He understands that when the time comes, the burden falls on him to get the divorce finalized.

He'll eventually have to prove that we've lived separately for two years. If he follows through on pushing the D down the road, I will not stop him.
I've also made this clear to him from Day One.

We are officially in limbo until that time!

[GoatGal]

POSITIVE SIGNS:

Although I see lots of positive changes, it's wa-a-a-a-ay too early to think that he'd even think about taking the D off the table, or asking how I might feel about R, that is, if he ever does. Yet I do feel good when I see positive movement.

Originally one of my goals was that he'd use the words "we" and "us" about the future, but I took it off the list because it was about HIM and beyond my control. So it became more about being kinder, listening better, setting the stage for him to consider that maybe we're not "done" after all. Not in words, but in actions.

I worked on my stuff, and I see it's happening anyway. Go figure!

Also, the phone calls have become an ongoing thing, so I'm glad I reached out.


But everyone says to watch his actions and here they are:

He comes every day to help as promised.

I used to worry about him leaving here to go on a date but realized at this point it's pretty silly.
He comes here an hour away from work every night.
He wants to be here every Friday and Saturday night, prime date nights. He's here all weekend.


OK, he's SAYS he only comes to "help" me if I want to get out of my cage, to work around the property, but if he had a hot number in the wings, I think his behavior would be very different.
While he was having the A, he found every excuse not to be here, was always late, had overnights "for work", etc. and was really nasty to me the entire time.
So I'm just looking at his behavior, and stopping just short of mind-reading on that one.

He has also agreed to things I've asked for--demonstrated by his actions, not words---like keeping me in the loop if he's running late, respecting my space, answering questions about financial transactions without defensiveness, not treating me like an employee as if his time was more important than mine, and giving me information that will set my mind at ease rather than letting me stew or humiliate myself by having to ask him. (Like about his lawyer, finances, etc.) Essentially, treating me with kindness and respect as his wife, however we may end up.

Basically at this point, I couldn't ask for more.
I am happy here on my own, and until he's ready to really step up and do what needs to be done, I'm OK with it staying that way.

I am so grateful for the books and this board. I have learned so much and applying it to my sitch has really worked. Even if that only thing that ever happens is that he and I get along better so we can move ahead with whatever comes.