WAW...Again

[stumps]

Well, another nice night with W. She came home from work and after dinner we threw the football around in the yard with the kids, watched a little tv with them and then put them to bed. Afterward we built a fire in the firepit and hung out talking (no R talk) and listening to music for a couple of hours. W mentioned that her friend (F) who had come over the night before told W that she had a really great time spending time with us. I told W that I had really enjoyed F coming over as well, and (major 180 for me) that she should feel free to come over any time she wants. After the firepit we came in and watched tv in bed for a little bit and then called it a night.

I am noticing small...twinges...of resentment/negativity within myself over the lack of physical affection. MUST keep a grip on that. Physical touch/affection is my LL and I'm am really feeling the lack of it...especially since it's in such stark contrast to how well W and I are getting along. Plus, it's not like W has become modest around me all of a sudden...it's hard not to get turned on, but I've been doing a good job of keeping that under wraps. But it is creeping in mentally. I need to make sure I don't start pushing for any type of physical intimacy, and I need to be vigilant in making sure any of my "unmet needs" don't start expressing themselves negatively in some other way. No hostility, no resentment... but d@mn my W looks good.

I can say this for sure, if I can keep up MY current behavior...the 180s and GALs that I've been doing for the past month...if I can keep them up indefinitely moving forward into the future, W will truly be abandoning something good. Something special. Even a couple of the neighbors who have seen us together recently have remarked that we seem like two peas in a pod going through something like a second honeymoon period.

I think the best I can do is to keep up my current efforts. If W doesn't change her mind (and I have to assume she hasn't/won't right up until she says differently) and chooses to leave anyway, then at least I know I did everything I could for myself, the kids, her, and our marriage. At least I know I've given her something good to miss. If she leaves, then I go dim/dark and continue my efforts for myself and our kids.

[stumps]

I am going to give myself a compliment here... one that I think most of us on this forum deserve to give to ourselves. When my spouse said she was done and wanted a D and told me the reasons why, instead of pointing the finger at her and her faults/flaws, I instead turned the spotlight on myself and found the truth in what she had to say about my faults/flaws and began to remedy them. That is HUGE. That is not the norm. We all deserve to pat ourselves on the back for that. If my W ends up not being the beneficiary of that effort, I will be no matter what.

[bashy]

Heh man. Read your last few posts. Hang in there. U seem to be a top guy and doing all the right things. She seems to be fighting thoughts of going back but if your changes are real I think you're in with a great chance. I hope you get her back but if not you really have got a great future with the 180 you've implemented!!!

[stumps]

Heh man. Read your last few posts. Hang in there. U seem to be a top guy and doing all the right things. She seems to be fighting thoughts of going back but if your changes are real I think you're in with a great chance. I hope you get her back but if not you really have got a great future with the 180 you've implemented!!!

Thanks! I really appreciate your comment. W and I get along so well, but I'm really fighting to not get my hopes up. I really privately worry about the "friend zone" thing. I know my W envisioned a D in which we stay friends and split time with the kids 50/50, which is why I think she gets distressed when I mentioned (when she asked me) that my plan is probably to move relatively far away if we split (a couple of hours). I figure all I can do in whatever time we are still in the same house together is become a better version of me and, in the process, let her see what she'll be missing.

Incidentally, I've been following your sitch a little bit and I think you handled staying over at your W's/the spider thing quite well. I think the best you can do is find a balance between being available, but not *too* available.

Wishing the best for us all...

[bashy]

Ty. It wasn't too bad but, like u, when we get on so well during these difficult times you realise how much we love them and want to be better people for us and them so that they can have the marriage they deserve.
I get the feeling we're feeling the same things. Trying to have a life if our W's do not come back but finding it tough when we love them sooo much.
Jeez this is hard. But I know we can do it.

[stumps]

Interesting night last. W and I were supposed to go to our neighbors' 30th anniversary party together. This was another 180 for me, as usually W would go to this type of thing alone. But this time W was pleased to find out I had taken it upon myself to get a sitter so that I could meet her there after she got off work.

However, W texted me after work to say she was on her way home and that she wanted to talk to me about something. When she got home she told me she had found herself getting angry thinking about all the changes I had made, and how at the party I would be socializing and "shining" to all of our friends and neighbors and that it started making her mad to think I was becoming the man she always wanted only after her saying she wanted a D. As a result, she said she didn't think she wanted to go to the party anymore because she was afraid seeing me getting on so well with everyone would either make her lash out in some way or make her upset to the point of tears.

I validated everything she had to say, telling her I understood 100% where she was coming from and that it made perfect sense to me. I asked her what she wanted to do, and she asked if It would be ok if we sent the sitter home and she would go to the party by herself for an hour and a half and then come home and spend the rest of the evening with me. I told W that was completely fine with me, as long ad she made it clear to the neighbors that I wasn't there by choice. So she told them our sitter had cancelled, and in a 180 of sorts for her she was true to her word and back at home when she said she would be.

We ended up having a great night together when she got home. Stayed up for around another 5 hours just hanging out being friends, talking, listening to music. Really great time. W remarked several times how much she was enjoying herself, and how validated she had felt by me understanding her feelings earlier in the evening.

I hope what is going on here is that she is making an effort to rekindle things on her end as she sees me doing my 180s/GAL. That's definity what it feels like. I don't want to get my hopes up, but we are connecting in many ways that we haven't in quite some time. And very notably, W mentioned how good it felt to her to be able to express negative thoughts toward me and not only have nothing bad happen as a result, but to actually have a lot of good come from it instead.

[VFL]

You're doing it right Stumps, well at least in my opinion. Keep at it!

[stumps]

You're doing it right Stumps, well at least in my opinion. Keep at it!

Thanks VFL, I really appreciate that. Especially because at the moment I'm feeling like I'm at a low point. While I was out with the kids yesterday W texted and asked if we could grill some burgers and have W's mom and W's friend come over. 180 for me: I said yes enthusiastically and without hesitation. We had a great time, but it kind of had a weird effect on me (kept it to myself, so pat on the back for that).

From a 180/GAL perspective I feel like I'm doing well... But I've been having feelings creep in of "maybe this would be easier if W just moved out". Being "just friends" with W gets agonizing sometimes. And I'm doing so much of the household work right now, nothing would change from that perspective. I can't remember the last time W did some dishes, or the kids' laundry, or fixed dinner, or made a grocery store run...and keeping the kids busy and entertained on the weekends has become my sole responsibility. She even blew off the kids' Easter baskets this year; that was all me. It's feeling more and more like W is in a MLC... and if I'm understanding DBing correctly the best I can do is patiently stand by while she goes off the rails and hope that my quiet patience and acceptance brings her back. Meanwhile we've gone from what used to be a pretty 50/50 split of the household labor to it being more like a 95(me)/5(W) split.

I'm continuing to show W nothing but calmness and positivity, but inside...despite GALing...I'm just really lonely. I'm aching for her affection...for her to say "I love you". We had another good time last night hanging out with W's mom and W's friend by the fire pit, and it was hard not to notice that even W's friend gets more affection from W than I do. I don't let any of it show... but it does hurt. Especially in light of how good our friendship seems to be. W asks me to be with her, to spend time with her, to keep her company while she does x, y, or z, but... there's always this limit to it.

It reminds me of our relationship before we were dating. We were good friends that used to hang out with this couple we knew, and we would always sleep over in their guest room if we'd been drinking too much. She always wanted me to sleep in the same bed with her and snuggle...but it was like strictly platonic...for her. I really liked her, and one day realized if she didn't feel the same way then sleeping in the same bed and having this limited platonic kind of physical contact was actually not good for me. So one night as she prepared to get into bed I instead gathered up my stuff to head home. And she got pissed. She couldn't believe that instead of our "snuggle time" together, I was choosing to go home.

I don't know... I guess I'm feeling like I'm almost in the same boat again. I had gotten advice here that suggested that the tact I'm taking right now is the right one. That all of what I'm doing right now is what W is going to miss if she leaves. But sometimes I wonder...she's not missing anything *right now*. I'm a model husband...but feel that I'm squarely in the friend zone. I know we're not supposed to be trying to teach our WASs a lesson or anything like that... and it's not like I can gather up my stuff and go home like when we were just friends. But if she left, if she went ahead and moved into her parents' like she said she was going to, maybe she would see what she's missing.

The advice I've gotten seems to suggest that she is seeing what she'll be missing, even if she doesn't show it, and it is making it harder for her to leave (maybe it's why she hasn't left yet), but in the meantime, even with all the 180s and GALing, it feels like it's taking super-human strength sometimes to be strong, and stoic, and calm about it all.

I really want someone to give me a hug, and say "I love you". And when I say "someone" I mean "my wife".

[stumps]

Little self-pep talk to remind myself what I'm doing right...

I have been about as close to 100% successful in my 180's as a person can get. W has remarked several times that I'm doing the things she always wanted/being the man I was when we first met.

I have not brought up any R talk at all since the bomb drop. The few times it has come up it's been brought up by W.

I have validated everything my W has had to say about her feelings. She has acknowledged this and thanked me for it.

I have accepted 100% my role in our sitch, and accepted 100% of the responsibility for my behavior and changing it.

At no time have I pointed my finger at my W, her contribution to our sitch, or at her current behavior. If we ever start piecing/reconciling, then that will be the time for a calm constructive conversation regarding these things.

I have displayed near-100% positive mental attitude and kind, generous behavior toward W, her family, our friends and neighbors since bomb drop, even when I'm dying on the inside.

At least two things I need to step-up: 1) GAL. I'm doing just ok here. Been in touch with a few old friends, but we're far-flung across the map and it's hard to make things happen with them. But I have been open to all of the social events in the neighborhood I used to avoid (sort of a 180/GAL mix), I have plans to go to a concert on my own in a couple of weeks, and I've been thinking about taking drum lessons if I can fit them in to work/child care schedule. 2) "Internal" detachment. From the outside, my detachment looks pretty good. I've adopted a pretty good "laissez-faire" attitude regarding W. But on the inside, I still have moments of pretty hardcore despair. I'm aching for physical affection...not even necessarily sex, just touch. Physical comfort. I'm suffering too much mental pain from the lack of affection. I think I'm doing a near-perfect job of hiding it...but I want to do more than hide it. I want to handle it.

[Crimson]

Stumps -

It sounds like you are going everything right - even at a stage where it is gut-wrenchingly painful. I remember that stage well, and you have my sympathy, support and encouragement. Hang in there - I am wishing you the best.

Crimson