Barrybran

[Mach1]

Stay YOUR course...

Keep working on you, and answering those questions..

She is the one that wants this, then she can be the one to facilitate it....

She is flailing around, because you gave her what she wanted (by not cleaning) , and now she doesn't want that either....

Stay calm...no reason for both of you to spin out....

[cat04]

^^^Exactly.

Let her do the heavy lifting and dont panic.

[Barrybran]

Thanks Mach. She's telling me to "take sh!t seriously and man up" now. I responded with this:

"W, I am taking things more seriously than I ever have before. I'm manning up by fighting for my marriage, not leaving it. I don't expect you to join me as I've put you through a lot of hurt and I understand that you feel you will never trust me again. I have a long time to live, you are a fantastic woman, our kids are wonderful and I will fight for the most important thing in my life. I may have been a moron in the past and I may have trouble understanding some things now. I know that I've let you down and I am going to make that right. You deserve the best. That doesn't mean you deserve someone else. You are worth every good thing you get and I hope I can give it to you some day. THAT is how I will man up."

[Mach1]

Thanks Mach. She's telling me to "take sh!t seriously and man up" now. I responded with this:

"W, I am taking things more seriously than I ever have before. I'm manning up by fighting for my marriage, not leaving it. I don't expect you to join me as I've put you through a lot of hurt and I understand that you feel you will never trust me again. I have a long time to live, you are a fantastic woman, our kids are wonderful and I will fight for the most important thing in my life. I may have been a moron in the past and I may have trouble understanding some things now. I know that I've let you down and I am going to make that right. You deserve the best. That doesn't mean you deserve someone else. You are worth every good thing you get and I hope I can give it to you some day. THAT is how I will man up."

That is still, a LOT of words....

Words that include guilt, being defensive, pursuing, and justification of your past actions....

Stop trying to talk your way out of something that you acted your way into....

A simple..."I understand how you could see it that way"...should suffice...

[Barrybran]

Ok thanks. Your way is how I handled probably 95% of the conversation so I feel good about it. I admit I lost my cool a little. The conversation is over now. I trying to learn how to have conversations like this without saying too much or sounding like a recording.

Tomorrow is an awkward day because I don't start work until 10am and my wife is home all day. It's a public holiday here too so I can't just go out for breakfast unless I go to work. I might be spending extended periods of time in the shed or at the park for a while. Does anyone have any ideas how I can give my wife space without moving out? I know GAL is a standard response. I still have to eat, shower and sleep at home and I can't keep the kids out until all hours of the night.

[cat04]

You need to be comfortable there. If she is uncomfortable then she can remove herself from the situation.

Personally, i found solace and peace in my room but i refused to spend all my time there.

[tough spot]

If you figure it out, let me know! My wife and I are constantly at a level 8 stress. I am sitting here thinking I shouldn't let her stress for the situation make me stressful (eg, detach). But then the hope to R pulls me back in like a yo-yo.

Neither one of us will move out until we get a temporary custodial arrangement (court date is set for 5-6). To be honest, my lawyer told me we could go to that hearing and he could say 'since they are living together and both paying housing expenses, there is no reason to have a temporary custody or child support put in place'. So technically, I could stay in the house even longer....

I don't think that is best though. We both need some space. I just can't believe she is fighting me on the 50/50 though. That is the sticker to the situation. Otherwise I would most likely already be out......because there is no way I know of for me to give her space and us be not only with no hope of a R, but even merely living together in some sort of peace.

[Barrybran]

I hear you. My wife hasn't brought up any legal things until her first threat of divorce last night. I get how she feels. I feel as though having our own places would be best now. I thought about moving out and the more I think about it the more I think "why?" As I said to my wife last night, this is my home. I've set some things up, I have little projects to do and also, my wife chose to separate and my wife is choosing to live in separate homes so why should I have to arrange the logistics and bear the associated costs of moving?

I'll have a think today about sharing another house with my wife. It was her idea in January to have a second place and have us switch between them instead of the kids. I can honestly say I'd rather have my own place. If she wants to stay and I want to stay then maybe it's best to meet in the middle and find a place for us to switch between. The most difficult part about this is that we would still be jointly responsible for costs and that somewhat defeats the purpose of separation I feel.

[cat04]

Barry,

I am copying something from Crimson's thread that Sandi2 wrote yesterday. As I read it, I thought of you. Read this and think about it, the concepts of forgivness and detatching.

Ever heard about the woman who was wheeled into the delivery room to have a baby......and she kept saying she changed her mind? True story!

Okay, what about a young girl who is barely in her teens who discovers she is pregnant, and she falls before God with her heart broken, ashamed, humiliated, and embarrassed. She sincerely asks God to forgive her. How will she know if He forgave her? Will she go by how she feels afterward, or how people treat her, or what happens in her life? What would you tell her, Crimson?

Let me go a step further. What if she questioned if she had been truly forgiven based on the fact she was still very much pregnant? Should she expect God to vanish the pregnancy to let her know He forgave her? Maybe I should rephrase that question, IDK. I am not saying we should tell Him how to run His business, but on the other hand........we seem to have certain expectations as proof of His love, forgiveness, and such.

I would like to hear your comments on this. In the meantime, I will give you what I believe. (Which certainly doesn't mean i think you should believe it since I do, but I like sharing this topic, so indulge me please.). I believe He forgives us based on His divine character, and not on how hard we work at being forgiven. I believe it is an act of faith, based on His promise in I Jn. 1:9. Our part is to confess it, and His part is forgiving, and the faith is believing He did what He said He would do.

I think if we believe (accept) it, then the feelings of peace, comfort, etc. can follow. But if we doubt......b/c certain things we had hoped for doesn't come about........we are really defeating ourselves and being our own worst enemy.

Just as God would forgive that young pregnant girl and love her throughout the whole nine months........she would still have the baby. It doesn't mean she wasn't forgiven. It doesn't mean God is punishing her. He is the only one who can take our faults and turn into something good...if we keep trusting Him.

We stand in the way of our own happiness.........and our doubt and hanging on to how we wanted God to work things for us....can prevent blessings coming our way. For all you know there is the greatest love of your life just waiting for you to give all of this stuff you are carrying aroind to God so you can begin to move her direction. But it can't happen b/c you won't lay it down.

Look, from day one I have told you to detach, stop contacting & sending her pictures, stop being available all the time, etc. And, since day one you have fought it tooth and nail. Even when others would tell you the same thing, you fought it and came back with the same talk as you are basically doing now. You never DETACHED! You were always AVAILABLE to her. And your reasoning was you feared she would believe you had not truly changed. After you really did change, you continued to hold on to that fear of what she would think about you. Even when you are told how a WAW needs to SUFFER some type of LOSS, you seem to turn it back to feeling you must show her goodness and kindness. But you admit you don't know if it is your own thinking or from above. You are asking 25yrs what goodness looks like.......(or something to that effect.). Why can't you just try dropping the rope, or even just the LRT? I mean, what can you lose?

You have been one of my favorite people here ever since you first came. But sometimes, Crimson, I want to turn you over my apron (as my grandmother use to say).......but I suppose I will give a hug instead. ((Crimson)). But seriously, this entire self destruction and torment since you have heard about OM is b/c you did not go through those BASIC DBing steps. You improved yourself as a man and a father, yes! But unless I have forgotten something (which entirely possible) the only thing I remember you doing that is recommended, is you did go out for a while. But I haven't heard about that in a really long time. But you never dropped your XW. You thought you would simply DIE if the D went through. But it did, and I had hoped you would finally start taking those DBing steps. You kept doing the same thing you are doing now. If there was ever a time you should have stepped back and let her wing it without you......but nothing changed. Then she moves back home for a very brief time and does it to you all over again. What did you do? Certainly not the basic DB steps in detaching, being unavailable, etc. So is there any wonder why you feel devasted again?

I just have to wonder how much of that fear she would not believe your changes were lasting......is really Crimson's excuse for not applying the LRT? I ask you again. What more could you lose? Plus, if there is ever going to be a time.......this it it, Crimson! I will tell you what you stand to lose. Your very last chance to apply it.

[Barrybran]

Is the point that you may never truly know if you've been forgiven so forget about looking for forgiveness and do what is right for you, and if you do so, you'll be looked after?