Pre-piecing Thoughts

[NTX_Dad]

Wow I feel bad I was hard on you in the past. She's clearly confused and may I say imbalanced.

I think it's possible that two people can love each other but can't be married or live together. Perhaps this is the case here.

Your sitch is getting pretty complex, its getting more difficult to be an armchair therapist and help.

It's probably best to go back to plan A and focus on going dark and GALing.

[JayMan]

Well, figured I'd pop back in here, and give the final straw. Back in late March, W asked if she could dismiss the divorce - she filed a continuance when it was supposed to be finalized 4/1, and it got pushed back to 4/14.

She came to me and asked if we could "start over" - her kids/my stepkids were going south to see their biological dad for a week, and she said we could take that week to really reconnect. (This was last week)

I figured I had nothing to lose, so I did. We both were working long days, but we watched TV, and talked, and laughed, and snuggled, and had a good time. She started texting me cute things, calling me "shnookums", etc. Friday came, and our last big date night, and we met at our favorite restaurant. She was talking about what a fantastic and amazing week we'd had, and how she was so excited, but a little nervous - she got all dolled up and looked great. She said she'd like to start dating once a week, and start counseling and really build on what we had.

We had an appetizer, and were just chit-chatting, and I told her I might be taking the kids to an island off Florida for summer vacation, and would be gone for a week.

That single innocent statement set off a nuclear explosion. She got real quiet for a second, then she said, "Well, you better take me somewhere nice." Then she sat there, and ate a bit of the appetizer, and then started ranting about how I always put the kids first, and never think of her, and it was hopeless. I asked her what the heck was with the response since she had JUST said that she wanted to take our time and date once a week for the next few months - I said I had taken the kids on vacation every year I'd had them. I told her I'd love to go on a cruise with her, and spend time with her, but we needed to get things figured out and move slowly so we didn't mess up again.

She then got up, took her purse and stormed out. I enjoyed my beer, then went out, and she was still sitting in the parking lot 10 minutes later. I came up to the window, and could see she was crying. I knocked on the window to try to talk to her, and she mouthed, "Go away", so I left. I even tried to call her afterwards, and she said, "Why don't you go make out with your daughter since you love her so much?" *** CRAZY ALERT ***

I talked to her today to get back some of my stuff, and she basically blames me for the whole situation. She said that me telling her about taking the kids on vacation was the same thing as putting a drink in front of an alcoholic, and I "pushed" her because I know how jealous she is of my closeness with the kids. I guess being a good dad automatically means you can't have a good marriage.

So, I was done. I mean, it's one thing to really stand for marriage, and DB, and do the right thing, but I'm pretty sure that someone who isn't even living in reality can be reached. I wished her well, told her I hoped she found happiness, and would see 4/14.

[Wonka]

Jon,

As a man, you have overlooked the obvious:

Not making your W feel important. You drop this mini-bomb on W on YOUR date that you will be away without her for a week. How's that helping you draw closer to W and vice versa? Take a hard look at your role during the interaction during the appetizer part. No wonder W went "nuclear" right there. As a woman, that's outright rejection right out of the starting gun.
You flubbed this one, Jon. OWN it yourself.

then she said, "Well, you better take me somewhere nice." Then she sat there, and ate a bit of the appetizer, and then started ranting about how I always put the kids first, and never think of her, and it was hopeless. I asked her what the heck was with the response since she had JUST said that she wanted to take our time and date once a week for the next few months - I said I had taken the kids on vacation every year I'd had them.

Did you just forget basic DB 101 here? Validating. I don't see that you did any validating to W. You just argued back with her and then naturally it escalated. When are you going to learn this very basic DB tenet, Jon?

So, I was done

Over this blow up that YOU played a role in? So you are going off to a D in a snitch because your W rightfully felt rejected right off bat. You cannot blame W in this. Yeah, she didn't say the right thing about your daughter. That was a doozy on her part. But to just run out and file for D just because of this blow up?? Get real, Jon. You know better than most that there will be inevitable bumps along the way. You're not giving your W many allowances which to me is not being flexible nor seeking out her input.

Own your part. And really listen to your W.

This is nothing to do with being a "good" father....but how you can be a better communicator. The timing of your comment sucked big time!

What are you going to do to make W feel desired? She's given all hints, cues, and words to you during that date that she's really interested in working on the M.

[JayMan]

I didn't file for D, W did.

And I didn't reject her at all. It was HER idea to date once a week, and she specifically said until maybe September; so I assumed that didn't mean long romantic getaways. I was letting her know I'd be gone for a week so she wouldn't wonder what was up. I also said after we got ourselves back on track, I'd love to go on a cruise or something nice like that with her. I complimented her on how good she looked, bought her a drink, smiled and laughed with her.

Sorry, Wonka, I disagree completely with you, and I don't take any blame in this. I did fail to mention that BEFORE she stomped, I asked her to take a breath, and understand we were on very fragile ground, and to talk to me and share her feelings if she was upset with me. She cursed me and left.

So, regardless of the myriad things I've done wrong, I did this one thing right.

[melissag]

I'm just not sure there is any way to be married to a woman who expects you to love her more than your children, or put her needs above theirs. I assume that's never going to happen, so unless and until she addresses that insecurity, you can DB her to the moon and back and ultimately, it won't do you any good.

I do think that we need to listen to our WASs and understand them, and make changes to make a better R, but if the only change you can make to make her happy means you have to sacrifice your own values, well . . . that's not going to work for you.

Sorry, Jon. And PS, come back!

[paul19510]

I have to agree with M on this and the idea hits very close to home in my own situation. If that is truly the case that the WAS is asking to be placed completely above the kids needs a d that's not what you value...you will ultimately end up at the same place either now or somewhere down the road.

I can see a couple UNITED in facing challenges/opportunities and tasks...but not if that means that one partner wants to be the recipient of the attention beyond everything and everyone else. In my case my W expected me and our kids to work towards HER happiness. She however also had the same goal. That doesn't work in any relationship. My 2 cents. Btw, now that my kids see this " give me your all attitude" 2 of them have really backed away from their mom. Its not healthy.

[Wonka]

Jon,

And I didn't reject her at all.

Yes. You did. Go back and re-read what you wrote.

so I assumed that didn't mean long romantic getaways

Assumptions again, huh?

I was letting her know I'd be gone for a week so she wouldn't wonder what was up. I also said after we got ourselves back on track, I'd love to go on a cruise or something nice like that with her. I complimented her on how good she looked, bought her a drink, smiled and laughed with her.

Timing of this sucked. Again, I see no validation in any of this convo. Did you?

Sorry, Wonka, I disagree completely with you, and I don't take any blame in this.

So you're entirely blameless in this??! Hmmm...interesting. You're wrong on this one, buddy.

I did fail to mention that BEFORE she stomped, I asked her to take a breath, and understand we were on very fragile ground, and to talk to me and share her feelings if she was upset with me. She cursed me and left.

Still no validating W's fears. If it were me, I'd say: "Wow, I didn't realize that's how you felt about this trip. Maybe this is poor timing on my part. I don't want you to feel excluded...isn't that what you are feeling at the moment? Wouldn't it have been better if I had brought this up after our date? What do you think?"

It is UP TO YOU on how to communicate effectively with W and defuse the situation. You didn't. So you aren't blameless in this. Accept the responsibility for your role in this.

Again, no, you did not do this right. If you had, then your W wouldn't have had that reaction she did. Timing and choice of words are within YOUR control.

[unbidden]

The real issue, I think, is what does he do now. He could probably right this ship but is too angry right now. But, anger isn't going to keep him warm at night or help get his W back. I think the anger is a problem and won't let him see things clearly right now. But, if he wants to leav things spiraling downward due to anger, so be it.

[Wonka]

Gineen,

Yes, it is understandable about being in the heat of the moment. Not once did I say that W was right...what she said was a real doozy for sure!

Now...put yourself in W's shoes for a moment. She's telling Jon all kinds of romantic stuff and even called him a pet name. Then Jon drops this line, during the appetizer course, that he'll be taking the kids on vacation. What do you imagine W thinks of this on this date??! The subtle message to her, albeit unspoken, is that she doesn't matter and isn't valued at all. In her eyes, Jon isn't making the effort to include W nor reciprocating her sentiments during the date...which translates, in her mind, that Jon doesn't give a damn about the marriage.

When you are on a date with your spouse, make it about them and make them feel special and included. Make sense?

To me, Jon really flubbed on that one. If I were in W's shoes, I wouldn't be too happy either. All that romantic comments, flirting and now this?! What a dismissive comment.

See where I am coming from as a neutral outsider looking at this event and this is why I am pointing out all of this to Jon to get him to see W's point of view. I would hope Jon will do better the next time and be mindful of the romantic moment in trying to reconnect the M.

Jon, if I were you, I'd seek out W and apologize to her for making her feel excluded. I think you can smooth things over with W.

[paul19510]

I agree with gabbysmom. There was no reason to act that way.