not sure how far gone we are...

[SeanB]

Here is my first post. I just picked up DR last night and have started reading.

My W and are both 39.
We have been M for just over 2 years now. T- for about 7 years.
We are both on our 3rd major relationship. Her 3rd M and my 2nd.
We both have seemed to repeated the same behaviors that didn't work in our previous M.

Last week my W told me she needed Space and Time to figure things out. she stated she still loves me, but there has been much hurt and resentment that has built up inside her that is not sure she will be able to move past. This past weekend she spent away from the house with her 2 sons. She had been getting into a habit this year of when she take trips (she travels alot for work) she stopped communicating alot while she was gone. this weekend was more of the same and it upset me to the point of confrontation. I forgot she asked for space and demanded why she thought it was ok to disappear for a day and a half and not give me a call. She blew up stating I wasn't respecting the space/time request. she needed me to give her FULL space and time, when I asked if she meant for me to move out, she responded with " I don't know". This was in the absolute pinnacle of the emotional moment and she said she wasn't sure.

That was 4 days ago.

Since then I started a journal, and started looking for a counselor for myself. My W and I have had a couple of talking sessions where she stated some things that had really drove her over the edge of frustration. This has (of course) been building up over the months, actually into the previous year and she couldn't take it anymore. She said she left hints, and admitted she is bad about stopping and confronting. She swallows the hurt until she can't keep it down any longer.
But she needed me to give her space and time to sort through the hurt and resent. It crushed me. She's crushed. She has said over and over this isn't easy. She's finding solace with family and friends and trying to find her way through this.

We had some recent issues where my inactivity or willingness to act has led to grief/heartache/stress. These events led her to feel unprotected, wounded and I was not there to protect her. she is a super strong person, and thought of on that level to the public, but I underestimated the unprotected child lying under the surface.

She is hurt and has said she hasn't reached the point where she is "done" with me and our marriage. But she is close. I fear it might be a simple matter of another argument.
I am doubful there is a OM...but my insecurities plague me anytime I let them (which is often). she has a friend whom she has recently become quite attached to, and I find myself wondering if he is trying to strike while the opportunity is there. She has vowed to me that she would never cheat, she would leave a marriage before doing that...but that is all I hold onto right now to stifle the self doubt. She is constantly on her phone chatting with various people...but when those messages come later and later into the night, my self doubt peaks. I don't challenge her on any of this, I dont acknowledge its happening. trying to give her that space.

I have begun to give her as much space as she needs. I stay out of her business location (she operates our family business while I support it with full time job) unless she asks me for a favor. I give her all the space she needs @ home.
I grabbed the Sandi's 37 rules and am trying to abide by them.
I am taking care of myself and working on the things I have let go: health, mental health and just overall quality of who I am. I am trying to be an even better version of the person I was before.
I struggle with sandi's rules as I want so much to talk to her about everything.
I don't feel like she is a WAW yet, so I am so hesistant to treat her that way in fear it pushes her away and over the edge.
She has been displaying signs of interest and 'normalcy' with me in the last day and a half.

With each engagement or sign of connecting from her I become more desperate to toss aside the rules. I fear being too aloof might cause her to separate even more. If I am absent form her heart, will she allow someone else to come in?
This weekend looms as a large event as I am sure she will spend most of it away from home with friends. Friends I am sure will talk to her to console her, but fear what else might be told to her as 'advice'. I know she needs a break from US...to just forget her troubles for a weekend. I just hope that she returns more ready to work on things than more ready to break things off.

I am determined to continue working on myself, but I want to work on US too, while I still feel there is an US to work on.

So I float on, adrift in life's rowboat.

[zew]

KShane, you asked about this on my thread. I'll answer here.

can you elaborate? I have seen so much stating aloof, and I fear aloof will allow more distance to be created.

Aloof is a little too cold, like you just don't care.

Acting "As if", on the other hand, suggests that you are in control of yourself, and that you are confident and prepared to move forward with your own life on your own terms. You still care, still are engaged, but you can deal with the alternatives.

[SeanB]

KShane, you asked about this on my thread. I'll answer here.

can you elaborate? I have seen so much stating aloof, and I fear aloof will allow more distance to be created.

Aloof is a little too cold, like you just don't care.

Acting "As if", on the other hand, suggests that you are in control of yourself, and that you are confident and prepared to move forward with your own life on your own terms. You still care, still are engaged, but you can deal with the alternatives.

thanks Zew.

[MrBond]

In your post, you put alot of the responsibility on her. As if SHE was the one with the problems. Was she right about the things she said about you?

[zew]

when I asked if she meant for me to move out, she responded with " I don't know".

You DO NOT move out, but you do give her space.

She said she left hints, and admitted she is bad about stopping and confronting. She swallows the hurt until she can't keep it down any longer.

This is common. She feels she is communicating but spouse doesn't recognize what she is saying. She will try and try unsuccessfully in the wrong language until she gives up and walks away.

Be prepared for blunt advice here. Do not be offended by it, we are trying to help. We will speak whatever language it takes to get through to you. This is your third round. If you haven't read Venus/Mars, you should. I think if everyone read it, there would be a sharp decrease in WAWs. It won't do you any good right now, but put it on your list for a time when you need to understand what she is saying in a normal relationship.

Friends I am sure will talk to her to console her, but fear what else might be told to her as 'advice'. I know she needs a break from US...to just forget her troubles for a weekend. I just hope that she returns more ready to work on things than more ready to break things off.

She will gravitate toward people who comfort her and tell her what she wants to hear. They will want her to be happy, and many people think that D is a remedy, so they will suggest it. You cannot control that in any way. You will drive yourself absolutely nuts if you worry about what others will advise her. You can't control that, so focus on you. And don't hate them for it. They only want her to be happy. And much farther down the line, you may find they were rooting for you all along.

You will be told repeatedly to DETACH. That is your biggest job right now. You must let go of her every movement and statement and stop hyper-analyzing it. You will not be able to deal with this objectively and rationally as long as you are hanging on her every word. And if you deal with it emotionally, you will not make your situation better.

She has asked for space. GIVE HER SPACE. In the meantime, learn to control your own emotions, so that you aren't reacting to everything she does. Focus on you, you, you.

I struggle with sandi's rules as I want so much to talk to her about everything.

The rules are guidelines, but are pretty well proven out. I'd bet everyone here has broken a rule and regretted it. Sure you want to talk, but she may not be willing to listen, and if you do, you can drive her away. Speak when spoken to, and then, just validate. No confrontation. Don't initiate conversations about R - she might not be comfortable with that.

If you think about it, you want her to be as comfortable talking to you as she is talking to those people you are afraid will give her bad advice. They are doing more listening than talking.

With each engagement or sign of connecting from her I become more desperate to toss aside the rules. I fear being too aloof might cause her to separate even more.

OK, now I see where your question came from. If you follow the rules, then with each engagement, you are validating what she says, AND NOTHING MORE. You aren't challenging her with any ideas you might have. Stow those. If you only validate, you will do the least harm. Validation is not aloofness. Even if you disagree with whatever she says, you must acknowledge that that is the way SHE feels. Just shut up, but pay close attention to what she is saying. She is telling you exactly where her perception differs from yours. These are things you will have to work on to close the gap in your thinking.

[SeanB]

MrBond,
you're correct. In my post I did write it that way. But the truth is I know that I share blame. Equally if not actually more.
I had turned into an emotional reactor. Over reacting with emotional outbursts that were far over what the situation called for. I never shouted, that is not my demeanor. But I made it obvious I was angry in those moments. I started IC, something I knew I had to get back to. I had stopped being happy go luck into an unhappy mess. We still would have our great happy moments, but then something might happen that I might not appreciate, but I would act like it was an intentional personal assault on me. The truth is wekept doing this bad mix of me reacting and her getting hurt/angry but not resolving anything.
We had a fairy tale start beginning to our marriage and had seemingly lost that magic.
Still loving each other, but growing distant. Over the past year I grew to be a jealous and insecure person. She, in kind, became more distant and sought happiness outside the home.
We continued this downward spiral that would eventually see a few events become breaking points.

Since this post, and actually prior t it. I started to realize just how seriously in danger we are.
But the first part is for me to work on me.
To be happy again. To find not so much WHEN I began sliding in my personal happiness, but WHY and HOW and more critically, how to not repeat those mistakes.
The power of happiness in my marriage was always in my hands, as well as hers, we just both seemed to let it rest in the other's grasp.

I just hope that we can find our way to a new happiness.

[lovethehub]

What are your W"a complaints about you?

[SeanB]

What are your W"a complaints about you?

I have become extremely critical of everything. Judgemental. Withdrawn. For a while she had asked me to go back to the doctors to see about my health because I am diabetic. I take medications and have adjusted many things, but the biggest was I was not exercising as much I needed to be. I needed to lift weights to get some muscle mass on me to really make progress on my diabetes. She is an athlete by trade. She has said that a healthy H is important to her. So by me not taking care of myself, I wasn't taking care of HER and our M.
I have read DR and something jumped out at me (well tons of things did)that highlighted something I was wondering about anyway: looking back over the past year, I really think I have been in a state of depression for a long time.
More things she has said:
I became needy and obsessive when she traveled. She travels often for her work, and I began to request check ins. To which she either didn't do or when she did, it was short and without feeling. She would come off as almost resentful that she had to do it. She later told me that those trips she had to do for work, yes, but she was also trying to use them as a break from US and the stress of life @ home. And I kept crushing that by not giving her space to be free. And by doing so, I was pushing her away from me.


I have begun IC to get to the bottom of my depression issues as well as how I wandered off the path of good, loving communication with my W. I had been doing things for the perceived reward I would get from her, instead of just doing things out of love. To do things that made me feel good to do, whether she came to me with gratitude about it or not.

I have been handling these things so wrong for a long time now.
I just stay committed to my 180's to set my course by on track.
Hoping it's enough that it sets my M back on track as well.

[SeanB]

HELP! I am not seeing my replies to this thread, my sitch has changed and I really am looking for some help. I have replied to the above questions but don't see it. I am trying to get my W to marriage counseling, but need guidance.

[SeanB]

I finished DR. The W confirmed her EA and gave me the ILYBNILWY type of speech.She reiterated her desire for space, and had we the financial means, would have asked for me to get a place to stay.
She needed to separate from BOTH of us (the OM) to clear her head.

I reminded her I was continuing IC and extended an offer of marriage counseling. she agreed to it, but the counselor wants us to do IC first. Stating that if the individuals were not stable, it made it that much harder for the M to succeed. I am so relieved she wants to work on herself and knows she has to create space from everyone to get her head clear. Not sure if I am doing this right...I keep doing my 180's, and she has noticed some of it. I just have to steel myself for the journey ahead.