I agree with everything Sandi2 said and I want to add that you should not discuss her spending habits with her. I'm not sure where she is getting this money (if she has a job or you give it to her) but telling her how to spend it is not going to go over well. Right now she wants the freedom S2 mentioned and going out for dinner and drinks makes her think she has it. Trying to talk to her about it will not do you any favors but at some point she will have to face the reality of her financial situation.
Also, you aren't the man she married, either. You have both grown and changed (I assume) but that doesn't mean you can't work anymore. You can't work NOW but you may work in the future.
You need to back off and stop being Mr. Nice Guy. It's annoying when you don't want someone helping you. Picking up and cleaning the house is fine because there is no reason you should be leaving your mess for someone else whether your R is good or bad.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
The answer to many of your questions can be worked through with help of a Divorce Busting Coach. If you think she is not 100% sold on leaving, then there is room for hope. Divorce Busting Coaches are here to help find the things you need to do and say to make a difference in her decision. Please call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004
Roberta, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 Roberta@divorcebusting.com
W just text me to ask if I was interested in doing something as a family this Sunday. I'll wait a few minutes before responding
As much as I enjoy doing family things, I wonder if it's confusing the kids. We haven't really updated them since our initial conversation. D9 seems to be having the roughest time- moody, more defiant, etc. I worry that she will be effected the most should we ultimately D. I tried to bring it up to W at one point, but she seemed to think D9 was just using the situation to her advantage. Seems to be a hard topic to approach with W without dabbing into R talk.
So right now we're sharing the house- I'm there 3 days a week, her 4.
Good luck. Do you have an alternative plan? I have never seen sharing the house as a solution when S. That's not to mean you should rake over the money for her to have an apartment, or that you should leave the home. I'm just saying that it gets very old staying at parents or friends.
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When I leave, I make sure the laundry is done, the house picked up, bathrooms cleaned, etc. My thought being that leaving her a clean house means 1 less stress when she gets back to the house, 3 kids and 4 animals. Should I continue doing this as a nice gesture or is that not allowing her to figure out what it would be like without me?
I would say neither one. If you live there, and these are your children and pets, you should be doing your part, plain & simple. It always irritated me to think a woman has to walk out of M before her H decides to start helping around the house. I doubt your W will see it as a nice gesture. She may see it as you trying to make brownie points, or she may think it's about time you started doing some of it. She may think, "Yeah we'll see how long this lasts". But whatever the WAW thinks or feels, it usually isn't what the H originally thought. So, let me leave this suggestion with you.......whatever you decide to do, it should be continued if/when the M is R. That goes for any self-improvements. Don't do it to just get her back.
Please don't misunderstand what I told you in my last post. Even though I compared her to a rebellious child, it is not your job to issue her discipline. Life will give her enough consequences without your assistance. I know what you are saying, however, I just don't want you to misunderstand what I'm saying. Okay? Some difficult DBing will be you learning how to stay balanced between no punitive behavior and no serving her cake.
She has to believe M to you would be better than it is now. (I am borrowing this piece of advice from one of our well known members.). Becoming the man only a fool would leave. If you are already that man.....or you become that man, and she chooses to leave anyway..........then you move on. But most LBH'S decide they aren't that man only a fool would leave. If you aren't. Then set goals and start working.
Now that would be what I'd say if it was the only piece of advice I could give. But most of the time, newcomers need things broken down into a few more steps. She may be in a fog, but your thinking may be off a bit, also. Take the housework for example. Your mind may be thinking you should do it all..........then you would be that man only a fool would leave. No, she wouldn't respect you if you took it all. See what I mean?
Your children need you more now than any other time. They need your attention. They need to feel secure. Put them first. Give priority to your kids, and then to yourself. This may sound terribly selfish, but it is not selfish when you have the right attitude and purpose.
I believe Lovethehub will be able to help you. She was a WAW. She is presently working on her M. So you see, it can happen!
P.S. Don't forget to share your goals.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
In response to your question, I suggest that you speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Your coach would be extremely helpful in giving you suggestions regarding parenting issues, in addition to Divorce Busting strategies. Please call me to discuss our DB coaching program. I look forward to hearing from you. 303-444-7004
Roberta, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 Roberta@divorcebusting.com
No, we share a bank account and have never had a set budget for 'fun' activities. Her recent spending just seems to contradict her point on not having money to afford different living arrangements. We're pretty close to living by the paycheck to begin with. I'm all for setting up an allowance for both of us, just fear how that will come across seeing that I make the majority of our income (she only makes about $900/mo)
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Good luck. Do you have an alternative plan? I have never seen sharing the house as a solution when S. That's not to mean you should rake over the money for her to have an apartment, or that you should leave the home. I'm just saying that it gets very old staying at parents or friends.
It's getting very old, especially for me staying with my parents. I've also made that clear to her. She made a comment recently about being tired of packing up every week too (she's staying with a friend) and needing to figure something out, but I didn't ask what she meant. I think that's her biggest dilemma right now- her moving in with her friend full time is really the only affordable option we have and she doesn't want to leave the house/kids/animals. Thus, we remain in limbo.
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Some difficult DBing will be you learning how to stay balanced between no punitive behavior and no serving her cake.
You're right- it's hard to remove anger or the desire to earn brownie points from my actions. I admit I've been lazy over the years when it comes to housework, but I actually enjoy keeping the house clean so I think this will stick regardless.
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P.S. Don't forget to share your goals.
Goals for myself *Continue to focus on the kids and giving them the attention they need *Get back to the confident and independent man I once was. No more relying on others for my happiness *Reconnect with friends I've not spent time with over the past several years *Focus on the positives in life *Accept that I will be good regardless of what happens with W
Goals for the R *Resist the urge to bring up R talk with W, especially when I think things are going well. Patience! *No expectations *W to feel that she can call me to talk about her day, job, etc without feeling pressure from me *W to ask me for 1:1 time at some point in the next month- she asked me to dinner for my bday and we had a fun time just talking and laughing. No R talk at all, but I think how comfortable it was may have scared her.
Sandi2/lovethehub- I can't tell you how much it means to me to see each of you sharing your wisdom and advice. Having experienced vets like yourselves taking the time to help me gives me hope!
I agree that she would not be happy to suddenly have an allowance, especially if she has has had the freedom to spend on fun stuff as she so desired.
For the financial sake of your family, you need to a plan......ASAP. Her recent spending activity gives you a glimpse of how it can get. There have been many WAW's who have cleaned out the bank accounts while in their wayward state of mind. Be smart about these matters, and get help from someone qualified to advise.
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It's getting very old, especially for me staying with my parents. I've also made that clear to her. She made a comment recently about being tired of packing up every week too (she's staying with a friend) and needing to figure something out, but I didn't ask what she meant. I think that's her biggest dilemma right now- her moving in with her friend full time is really the only affordable option we have and she doesn't want to leave the house/kids/animals. Thus, we remain in limbo.
If you can possibly avoid being the one to move out of the home, then do not volunteer to do it, and do not allow her to pressure you into leaving. Look, if she feels she can't live with you in your home....then she needs to be the one to deal with moving. You and the children can stay home. And if there's one thing I have learned in life.....it is how short lived friendships get when one is sponging off the other one. But it is not your job to work it out for her. That is what you need to understand. Your place is in the home with the children. It is up to her if she stays or leaves, but it should not stop you from going back into your own home. Again, get legal advice regarding this.
This is one of those things I said about being balanced. You are not being punitive by going home. She can make her own choices about where she stays. You do not have to pay for room and board if she stays somewhere other than the home you are providing. Do not let you feel that this is a joint decision, when you are not wanting to end the M. You don't stop her from leaving, but neither are you responsible for finances her another place.
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You're right- it's hard to remove anger or the desire to earn brownie points from my actions. I admit I've been lazy over the years when it comes to housework, but I actually enjoy keeping the house clean so I think this will stick regardless.
Okay look, please don't start out like some LBH'S have done and give some phoney bologna about how they are doing this b/c they really enjoy doing it! You may fool yourself into believing it, but it sure won't fool her. And when you stop doing all that housework b/c you've overloaded yourself, then she will think "I knew it wouldn't last!". Besides, it really makes you look very bad to say you enjoy it but just chose to leave for her to do. Guess what you need to expect, once you start doing all that work keeping the house clean? She will probably be furious!
So the goals are a start. Let's break it down some. And you don't have to take time to write it all down for me, as long as you are giving it plenty of thought. Take the the first one for example.
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Continue to focus on the kids and giving them the attention they need
Okay. Do you know how you will give them more attention? In what area do they need it the most? Do you have boys, girls, both? Activities, hobbies, school work, personal problems? How about finding time for one on one with each child? How do work that into a day?
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Get back to the confident and independent man I once was. No more relying on others for my happiness *Reconnect with friends I've not spent time with over the past several years *Focus on the positives in life *Accept that I will be good regardless of what happens with W
These are all very good. General...but good. Very good if this is your first time at setting goals! My point is that the next step is having a plan as to how you accomplish these goals.
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W to feel that she can call me to talk about her day, job, etc without feeling pressure from me *W to ask me for 1:1 time at some point in the next month- she asked me to dinner for my bday and we had a fun time just talking and laughing. No R talk at all, but I think how comfortable it was may have scared her.
I think I know what you are saying. Let me suggest that you direct you goals more at yourself than at her. In other words, you can't control her......only you, right? So ask yourself what you need to do to become more attractive and fun to be around. What skills would you need to acquire, or polish, in order for her to open up and tell you about her day?
I hope I don't appear critical, b/c I really want to help any way I can. You've made a big step and can accomplish a lot. It will take a lot of energy and that is why I caution you about working for brownie points. You cannot do it! Put your time and energy into your kids and yourself first. You are no good to them if your mind is wrapped around the WAW. It is important to eat, sleep, and exercise well......so that you can continue the work ahead.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She works as a vet tech 3 days a week and also does Real Estate on the side (not a steady income). She's talked about finding a new job or picking up more days, but she's mentioned that in the past and never taken action.
She sent me an angry text today because in my attempt to take over some of the finances, I paid a bill that technically wasn't due yet causing an adjustment to the budget. We agreed to meet and discuss our finances on Sunday, but she also gave me a pity party about how she's cutting all her spending other than on gas and groceries because she's tired of being broke. Easier said than done.
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Your place is in the home with the children. It is up to her if she stays or leaves, but it should not stop you from going back into your own home.
Wow, I hadn't really thought about that, but it does make sense. I had agreed to our current living arrangements because I was trying to be accommodating (Mr Nice Guy). I worry that telling her that I'm moving back in will make her feel like I'm forcing her out, but you're right- I need to be thinking of myself and the kids, not W and her actions. That's a big change in my thinking! I'm going to give that some thought and maybe bring it up Sunday.
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Okay look, please don't start out like some LBH'S have done and give some phoney bologna about how they are doing this b/c they really enjoy doing it! You may fool yourself into believing it, but it sure won't fool her. And when you stop doing all that housework b/c you've overloaded yourself, then she will think "I knew it wouldn't last!".
Maybe I'm kidding myself and the real reason I feel good about doing the housework is because I'm doing something nice for her. No more killing myself over housework. Way to call me out!
Thanks for weighing in on the goals. I'll start working on making them more action oriented and focus more on making myself a better, more attractive person.
Okay, so your WAW has her own income. May not be as much as she desires, especially for a single's lifestyle......but again, it is NOT your job to provide her with necessities for a life separate from you. If that has been part of your nice guy mentality.......get rid of it, and fast.
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She sent me an angry text today because in my attempt to take over some of the finances, I paid a bill that technically wasn't due yet causing an adjustment to the budget. We agreed to meet and discuss our finances on Sunday, but she also gave me a pity party about how she's cutting all her spending other than on gas and groceries because she's tired of being broke. Easier said than done.
Yes, she won't like it. But you have to see her as a person who could ruin you financially, due to her state of mind. I'm sorry if I sound vicious, but I am trying to get you to understand you will have to adopt a different way of thinking about her.....and a different way of dealing with her. I am not saying you have to stop loving or caring about her, but you have to get tough within yourself and make tough decisions based on what is best for your children and you.........and not based on lingering emotions about your W. She is different now. I don't know her personally, but I think I know the mindset of WAW'S.
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Wow, I hadn't really thought about that, but it does make sense. I had agreed to our current living arrangements because I was trying to be accommodating (Mr Nice Guy). I worry that telling her that I'm moving back in will make her feel like I'm forcing her out, but you're right- I need to be thinking of myself and the kids, not W and her actions. That's a big change in my thinking! I'm going to give that some thought and maybe bring it up Sunday.
I think you may need to make a new rule for yourself. You cannot accommodate a WAW. If she is going to break this family apart.....it will be without your help. If she is going to live a life independent from your M, it will be without your help. I realize it may go against your nice guy image, but you have to get over it. Throw away the nice guy shoes and put on the shoes labeled "Family's Fierce Leader and Protector". You can no longer be that passive, lazy guy who allows her to decide for you and the family's future. She just gets to decide for herself..... And joint decisions in co-parenting.
You may feel the fear of facing her and the thought of her anger. You may experience feeling the fear of how she may react to your decisions & actions. But do it anyway. John Wayne said that bravery was being scared to death -- and saddle up anyway.
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Sunday could be a big day for me!
Could be! But let me warn you, she will be loaded. Will you? In other words, don't go into it with a plan. Remember, you and children first. Be fair in your decisions. You job is not to punish her, but to protect your home, family, finances, and future. Giving over to her demands or self-pity will not bring her back home, and it will not make her think more of you. This is the downfall for so many men.
If and when the time comes that she is truly ready and wants to work on the M, then you will probably take a different approach, but as long as she is wanting to live her life separate from being your W, you cannot be "accomadating".
Wearing those shoes as family leader and protector does not require you acting mean or cold. But it does require you having the ability to say "no" and to make statements that include the words....."I have decided".
Do not share with her what you learn here. Make sure she doesn't accidentally find your activity here on the board. It does not help the LBH to show the WAW his game plan.
I wish you could rationalize with her, but I doubt very seriously you can. Logic doesn't work b/c she no longer has it in her brain. So, do what is best for your family....even if it means she thinks the worst about you right now. She will act out of her emotions. She will play every emotional card in her hand, to get you to do what she wants. But you must use common sense and good judgement to make right decisions. She may resort to tears, threats, tantrums, silent treatment, and a long line of emotional blackmail tactics. But you have to use your head.
Do your crying and throwing tantrums in private......never in front of her or the kids. Come here to rant and vent, but not to her. Your kids have to see Daddy holding it together. You are their source of security right now.
I know you want to save your M, and this is what we want for you. In order to save it, you have to make certain steps first. And that is what I am trying to show you. How you need to think differently and act differently than perhaps you were.
Have you checked into any free legal guidance about your stitch? You don't much time before tomorrow, but you may get some information on line. Part of your preparation of facing a WAW in any "meeting" is having your bases covered. Be on guard! The one thing that gets a lot of guys in trouble is when he is blindsided by the WAW. So don't let that happen to you. Know what you plan to present, and if you need to rehearse what you will say...then do it, if it gives you more confidence. Just remember that you don't respond in an emotional way to whatever she may tell you. No threats, no anger, and no tears! She must see you standing tall and strong!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I worry that telling her that I'm moving back in will make her feel like I'm forcing her out, but you're right- I need to be thinking of myself and the kids, not W and her actions. That's a big change in my thinking! I'm going to give that some thought and maybe bring it up Sunday.
W, I need to let you know that the living arrangements we came up with aren't working. Originally, I thought it may help to give us some space, however, this is not and never was a permanent arrangement. I have decided that I will be staying at home full-time. If you feel you need to make other arrangements, you will need to do so.
Yes, she is going to be very angry. TOO BAD. I can tell you right now that when I was a WAW and my H was accommodating, nothing changed. When he was fed up and done with me, things changed a lot - because I changed at that point. Giving her time to figure herself out will let her go on about her life while you sit there waiting indefinitely.
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she also gave me a pity party about how she's cutting all her spending other than on gas and groceries because she's tired of being broke.
W, I feel your frustration. There is definitely less money to go around now that we are S.
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I think you may need to make a new rule for yourself. You cannot accommodate a WAW. If she is going to break this family apart.....it will be without your help. If she is going to live a life independent from your M, it will be without your help. I realize it may go against your nice guy image, but you have to get over it. Throw away the nice guy shoes and put on the shoes labeled "Family's Fierce Leader and Protector". You can no longer be that passive, lazy guy who allows her to decide for you and the family's future. She just gets to decide for herself..... And joint decisions in co-parenting.
Exactly!!
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Guess what you need to expect, once you start doing all that work keeping the house clean? She will probably be furious!
Definitely. And not just the housework. What other complaints did your W have about you in the M? There were many things I asked my H to do together, for me, etc when we were M and he didn't want to do any of them until I was done with the M. All of the sudden he was willing to do everything I had asked and it infuriated me more than anything.
Work on yourself, take back your home, be kind and caring in your interactions but do not have overly involved conversations. Read DR and LRT.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
