she called me, and said, roughly, "I want to start fresh with you. I'm tired of living in the past. Everytime something negative happens, I start remembering all the junk from the past, and I get lost in it."
I seriously wished that my XW had this realization every time a disagreement pops up. Before and After BD!
How about applauding your W's 1%?
M35 XW34 D5 D4 M 6years T 10years Bomb 5/2013 Joint Petition signed 6/2013 Moved out end of 8/2013 Court Hearing of Joint Petition 9/2013 D finalized in 3 months - no news yet
Well, if the 1% would stick... I really would rather W just say she can't commit, and she needs to process things, than to make these 100% committed statements, and blow them up. I thought I was past the roller-coaster!
After asking for space, she did invite us over for dinner tonight, and we went. (Both kids objected, but I told them only for dinner and chit-chat, 2 hours tops) When I got there, she kind of stood in front of me for a minute, real awkwardly, then she came over and hugged me for what seemed like 10 minutes.
It was a great dinner with W's new recipe for chicken picatta, and all the kids loved it, and ate everything. I picked up cookies on my way, and of course, that pretty much made the night. We hung out doing various things, and had a nice relaxing night. D13 got all choked up because she didn't get the part in the play she wanted, and W talked to her for awhile about her time in school and different parts she didn't get or did. She was very sympathetic with D13, and I think it meant a lot.
Also, in the kitchen while cooking, W pulled me aside and kissed me like crazy, and said, "If the kids weren't here, I'd yank you into the bedroom and make out with you."
Well, I chalk this up as one successful night for me, W, our relationship, and our family. One night at a time!
I know you were kidding but if you think being angry is an excuse to say things you don't mean, it isn't. It is a very bad thing to lose control of yourself.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Oh, no excuse at ALL. I'm honestly a little embarrassed sometimes when I vent on here in the heat of the moment. But I'm gaining control little by little; obviously I vent less on here, because I'm working through the dumb stuff.
You're sidestepping my point, again. Last time it was to say that w dished it out to you too, and worse. Which doesn't make it ok, for either of you. You don't seem to take it very seriously, this excusing your blowups. It's hard to see when you're used to excusing and minimizing and blame shifting. I do wish you well but i'm not blowing sunshine up your skirt, your stories here suggest that you need to work on self control. I'm trying to help you see that, because you tend to brush it off.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Well, if the 1% would stick... I really would rather W just say she can't commit, and she needs to process things, than to make these 100% committed statements, and blow them up. I thought I was past the roller-
Jon,
I read this the other night and I have been trying to think of the best way to explain how I was feeling when I had an A and then did the same thing to my H . I am going to lay it all out the way I felt when I was going through it. Some of it may sound like justification of the A and blaming my H but in the end I hope it will be clear I don't feel that way. I hope you will be able to see my thought process and why your W may be doing this. And I apologize because I have no short way of explaining it.
I spent many years alone in my M. H worked a lot and when he wasn't at work he was watching/reading about/listening to sports. We rarely had an extra dime to do things together because our business was struggling and we were traveling out of state almost weekly for medical care for our son. We mistakenly did not spend time together because 'we couldn't afford it, we were busy with the kids, we worked too much, we traveled too much'. I started working nights and our 'tv dates' fell by the wayside. Now we were really distant, I was very unhappy and I kept asking H to spend time together, come to bed when I did, have more sex, etc. He didn't and I felt like I didn't matter and that I was unloved. He regularly said he wanted a divorce. When I told him other people found me attractive he said 'go be with someone else'. I honestly believed my H didn't care about me or what I did and that we were together only because we didn't have the money to split up. This went on for several years and I was miserable inside. I quit complaining so we would at least get along (like the book says, guys think it is better and women are just fed up) but I felt like I was existing and not living.
I was closing up the bar one night and it was just me and a guy I had known for several years, we were talking and laughing and I was overwhelmed by the urge to kiss him. I didn't. I went home and the next day I begged my H to tell me how he felt about me, I told him he had no idea how important it was and he said "I feel like I don't want to talk about it" and he left the house. The next time I saw OM, I kissed him. Talking, laughing and kissing led to more and more, and then more, and more. I finally felt alive again. I felt happy and loved and like I mattered to someone.
I wanted to leave my M one day and stay the next. After a few months, I ended the A because I knew I wanted my M to work. A few days later H found out about it and the cycle of what you are describing began. I WANTED to work things out. I would say I was committed and I meant it, yet every time something would happen between us, it would feel hopeless. I would mentally and emotionally be back out of the M even though my heart always wanted to be in it. It didn't seem possible it would ever work out. I didn't feel I would ever live down the A and I was exhausted from the whole situation.
Read my story and think about how I felt. It isn't your W's story but I can almost guarantee she has one that is similar in some way. She didn't feel important, she didn't feel loved, she didn't think you cared. Whatever her reasons were, she felt they were true and that you didn't care about her. Maybe she felt the way I did - that my H wouldn't care if I was with someone else because he didn't want to be with me.
Now, imagine feeling that way for however long she did, and doing whatever you could to change it until you become so tired and hopeless that you quit trying. (Read MWD's description of a WAW again) You feel your S doesn't care about you, doesn't love you, doesn't want to be with you and out of desperation/loneliness/sadness/whatever you make the terrible decision to have an A. Then, when your S finds out, YOU are the horrible one. YOU have made the worst mistake ever. YOU have done something that shouldn't be done to anyone. YOU have hurt that person so deeply they may not recover, and therefore your marriage may not recover. YOU may not even deserve another chance at their love. YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON. YOU ARE A WHORE. YOU ARE A (FILL IN THE BLANK).
Now, this M that was going so horribly wrong to start with (and you thought was the other persons fault), is ALL your fault. YOU have to fix it, ON YOUR OWN, and while you're at it, it's up to YOU to prove to me I can trust you. YOU have to make me feel safe. YOU have to tell me where you are and what you are doing every minute. YOU have to give up those news friends. YOU have to make it up to me and whatever you do may not be good enough, I'm not sure I can forgive you. And MY behavior? Well, we don't even need to discuss that because YOU had an A so there isn't anything I did that comes even remotely close to that, I would NEVER have an A.
The person who was so hurt/lonely/sad/unloved that they had an A to start with now has to bear the entire burden of this mess and do all of the cleaning up on their own. For me, I knew I didn't want a divorce but I really wasn't sure I wanted back in. I had felt unloved for years, why would I want that back? At the same time, I loved my H and didn't want a divorce for us or our children. For someone who doesn't have DB and DR to lean on, this is even more of a nightmare. (These words don't even need to be verbalized, a lot of it can be felt by the cheater by the look in your eyes, your body language, your actions, etc.)
Your wife (most likely) isn't trying to deceive you, hurt you more, play games - she is confused. She wanted out because of whatever pain she was in (or at least wanted that pain to go away) and then when an A is discovered, everything focuses on the A and the cheater and not at all on the series of events that led to a M being so broken an A could happen. It is overwhelming to be in this position and you are trying to sort out your feelings quietly because you can't discuss your confusion of a should you stay, should you go, I really want to stay but can it really work, etc, with your S. You have already hurt them so bad you have to show them you know exactly what you want or they may leave and/or be hurt even more. In addition, you don't want to bring up all of the stuff they did before your A because not only have you hurt them so bad, but, hey, sorry S, YOU had an A and that trumps anything I ever did wrong so don't you dare try to talk about my mistakes, NONE OF THIS IS MY FAULT.
Can you try to understand all that goes on in the mind, heart and emotions of the one who made the worst decision of their life? It is a lot, it is confusing, and, secretly, you probably still think it's their fault you had an A in the first place (unless you have a great counselor or DB/DR).
It wasn't until H and I quit talking about everything and were going to divorce that I found this site, the books and was able to sit back, stop justifying and really understand that the A was my decision. Yes, H had done a lot wrong but so had I during that time. No, he wasn't responding to my requests to change things but not because he didn't care, because he was having his own experience of our M and his own way of handling it. I just couldn't see that then - and even if I did, I don't believe it would have changed all of the emotions I went through, my frustration and despair at the fact that it felt as if our M didn't go bad until I had an A, etc.
An A isn't a tough thing to recover from for just the person cheated on, it is a tough thing for the cheater, too. I had to face the pain I had caused my H, I had to face myself because I previously had been someone who judged people who had A's and now I was one of those people. There is a lot your W needs to work through and she has to do it with your support and love.
I know you say you have forgiven the A. I can't say what you have done or haven't done. I can say that some of your posts appear that while you may feel you have forgiven it, there is a residual anger there. Understandably - it hasn't been that long and their is a great deal of pain that comes with an A. Even if you aren't angry, I can't imagine the hurt and pain could be gone already. Even if you don't express it, it could be that your W is feeling and/or seeing this underlying anger or pain and is responding to it. Maybe she is still trying to figure out how to make this work, how she can come back to the M she wants and still keep the happiness she rediscovered during her lapse of judgement.
There are many things at play here. It may not be that she can't commit, it may be that she is afraid that all of her efforts will leave her empty handed or back in the old M.
The new you has to be sure to be supportive, not condescending, not holding the A over her head, not glossing over the A either, etc.
It takes a lot of work on both of your parts and a lot of time and effort to put a M back together.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
And, I forgot to mention, that after I ended the A and H and I decided to stay together, I texted OM, too. (The whole reason I wanted to write this in the first place when I saw your text about xmas eve and in that long winded post forgot to mention!!) When things would go wrong between the two of us, I would think, "I knew it, this is never going to work, he is never going to forgive me, I may as well text OM". I wanted things to work but I hated that feeling that everything was my fault and always worrying that each fight/disagreement would be the end of our M. I sent a text that H found. I know in my heart I did it on purpose because I looked right at it, thought I 'I should delete that' and then thought 'no' and left the phone there and walked away. I believe it was a subconscious way of trying to make the nightmare go away - either leave me alone and get out or let's put this behind us and rebuild our M. It may sound like a ridiculous way to fix things (and it was) and it wasn't a clear plan on my part, I was just tired of shouldering all of the blame and I wanted him to go because I didn't think we would ever get past it.
Either way, your W texting him and then her telling you she wanted you to find it, sounds like some sort of desperation on her part. For me, I believe it was to see how committed my H really was because I didn't believe he was. What were her issues with you? What did she need from you that you weren't giving her? What fears does she have that she could be testing by leaving this message for you to see?
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
I have quite a different perspective on some A's, not all ( and certainly not mine, there are some circumstances you just don't cheat under, like pregnancy). But I can really see this. And I was told to leave my H before we were married so many times. And he was a cheater before . But I stuck by him. But I should have been the one to leave.
GM,
That is my perspective as the cheater trying to make it work. I understand what you are saying and I agree not all circumstances are the same. "And he was a cheater before" - I had an ex like that. He, too, cheated on me when I was pregnant and I found out after he had cheated in every R. He is married now and I know for a fact he has cheated on her, too. Some people are serial cheaters and will cheat no matter how good/bad the R is. The majority of people I know that have cheated fall into the category of "I never thought I would do that". It's too bad everyone isn't given a copy of DR before they get married. I think most M's go bad because we lack the tools to do a better job.
H and I are much better now but that didn't happen until I was truly able to stop justifying my A. I didn't even realize I was justifying in the beginning. Once I understood my behavior better and worked on my own issues, I was able to let go of "yeah but you did this and that's why I did that". It no longer mattered to me, I just wanted to move forward together and build a better M. Now that we realize how dangerous it is to neglect time together no matter how hard it is to afford/fit in, and now that we can talk about things more effectively, we are definitely moving forward. We still have a long way to go!
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
JonF really listen to what LTH is saying. It really hit home for me. Sorry to hijack your thread,but....
LTH, Check out my tread when you get a chance. Thanks
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
LTH - your story is awesome, and I believe my W is the same way about the A. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to write all that out, and be honest about yourself. Truth be told, I'm probably lucky because the PA was less than a week; there was no romantic connection, and very minor emotional, and the result of the PA was to make W feel what she described as "dead inside and disgusted".
The texting bothers me because of the spite involved, not because I'm worried she still has feelings or would have an A again. I really don't think she would, but what kind of person would say they were sorry, beg to be married, commit 100%, then do something so hurtful just to throw something in your face? It would never cross my mind to do something like that; it just seems vile.
---------------------------
Anyway, it's been a weird week. Last week, I found out that because of W's spending our savings, our tax return is pretty much gone. I told her I was very angry, but I wasn't going to yell or be nasty, but I really needed her to understand that this kind of thing can't happen again. She got mad and told me to get out and slammed the door. (She hates being held accountable for stuff). I felt really bad even though she was the only one who acted poorly, so I tried to call her to apologize. Nothing. I texted her a couple of times to see if she was OK. Nothing. It was at that point that I realized I was still very attached - because I was feeling bad for HER being in the wrong, and I kind of freaked out that she would WAW again. She was silent for almost three days, and then finally texted me just to let me know she had a minor fender-bender so was going to contact the insurance.
So, I detached that day (last Friday). Like, on the spot. It was the weirdest feeling, honestly. If someone told me they detached in a moment, I would call them a liar, but it's true. I realized that I'm having a great life, and I'll continue that alone, with W, or with someone else. So, now, I get to CHOOSE to be with W, not because of a piece of paper, or some misguided loyalty, or fear of being alone. W did finally call me and tell me that she would deal with her debt, and wanted to keep moving forward.
I feel like I'm stuck in a bit of limbo again, but it's OK. I am rocking out at work, having good times with the kids, going out with friends, and planning on getting new carpet!
