There is a book called N.U.T.S get it and read it. It was an eye opener for men to stand up for themselves and be real men.
ME:51 W:46 M:25 S:22, S:20 Divorced 16/9/15 BD 10/12 W left 12/12 with OW, affair confirmed Nov/12. Dark since 6/13 I"m in a new relationship since Feb 14.
I think LL lives in fear that his W will react negatively to his actions and her reactions will end his chance for a R, and the fear drives him to not act at all.
when in fact it is the non-action that will end his chance for a R.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Thank you all for your posts and ideas. I feel a bit overwhelmed with all this exhortation just now - need to keep the plan somewhat simple, if possible.
Main points: determine and maintain boundaries, and become who I want to be.
I am doing some of the NUTS stuff, but not consistently: e.g. I still don't play my instrument at home because W criticized this before, but I do go out now, with friends, to play, definitely something new. I am going to lunch tomorrow to meet a new possible guy friend, without asking, taking the car to get there, but when I said this weekend that I was going to get it washed, W pointed out that it was not so dirty and so this was environmentally and financially wasteful (we try to be environmentally conscious), and I was dissuaded.
I have problems with the idea of leading. What important things do you all decide/lead for your families? Isn't 'leading' really more of a negotiation or persuading rather than a commanding the other(s)?
It seems illusory to lead my W.
I will spend 3+ weeks in the States again, including Thanksgiving at BIL's. There is more friendliness at MIL's than there is here, though time spent with d15 is infinitely precious.
I am booking flights for son and I to spend a week together after Christmas, without the women. We had fun, just the two of us, last year, without complications.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
I have problems with the idea of leading. What important things do you all decide/lead for your families? Isn't 'leading' really more of a negotiation or persuading rather than a commanding the other(s)?
The most fundamental concept of leadership isn't the ability to command, it's the ability to be someone others would want to follow.
There aren't any lists of what areas you should lead and other areas where it's okay NOT to lead for you to follow. That isn't leading - that's following...a LIST!
You can't lead others if you can't lead yourself, so focus on leading yourself well first. Your family needs you to be the man, Luke. If you want a list, here's a short one:
Act honorably.
Always do the right thing.
Stand firm in your convictions.
Be courageous.
Be strong.
Do everything out of love.
Be patient, gentle, kind, and respectful.
If you do those^ things on a consistent basis, if that's the kind of man you are, you may not realize you're leading, but if you turn around you will see people following you.
Write that list down, or type it out and print it off. Keep it in your wallet. Look at it. Memorize it. When you decide something, when you are confronted and need to act, are you adhering to your list? Hold yourself accountable to it.
Two things stuck out to me:
1) " I am going to lunch tomorrow to meet a new possible guy friend, without asking" - Is she your wife or is she your mom and you're a little kid again?
2) "...when I said this weekend that I was going to get [the car] washed, W pointed out that it was not so dirty and so this was environmentally and financially wasteful (we try to be environmentally conscious), and I was dissuaded." - Don't be. If you want to wash the car, wash the car.
What you need is a whole lot less talk, and a whole lot more action. Be the man I described above, and do it quietly.
Quiet confidence. Strength.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
"I still don't play my instrument at home because W criticized this before,"
So start playing at home and get your kids involved if you can.
"W pointed out that it was not so dirty and so this was environmentally and financially wasteful (we try to be environmentally conscious), and I was dissuaded."
After she said that, you should have told her 'noted' and then wash the car anyway.
Why are you still living in fear of her? That's why she's still leaving.
"Isn't 'leading' really more of a negotiation or persuading rather than a commanding the other(s)?"
No it's a take charge attitude where you know what actions to take and when to take them. You negotiate when you need to and you make plans on your own when needed. It's making A decision and not let others make the decision for you. Which is what you allow your W to do time and time and time and time and time again.
No offense, but your W seems like a total b*tch.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
"W pointed out that it was not so dirty and so this was environmentally and financially wasteful (we try to be environmentally conscious), and I was dissuaded."
she gave you the opportunity to show her you could make a decision on your own, and to do it against her (not very strong) objections, and you backed down.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
I had lunch yesterday, without asking for permission, and without announcing that I was going, with a guy who was interested in the lunch club. It was just one person, sure, but that is a start, and I hope for > 1 when I am back in December.
In the Questions and Complaints department: for the guys here: what is reasonable to expect from life? How often do friends check on you or say hello? I feel lonely a lot - are we simply supposed to grin and bear it? Do we just live from hope to hope, looking forward to the next planned amusement, and ignoring the rest? Right now it isn't much fun.
Stopping my fear of my W - is it just a rational thing, telling myself that she is not an ex-commando, that her weapons are just (admittedly painful) words, at worst?
Tonight is playing music with guy friends.
I hear via d15 that we are having a Russian-themed Christmas party. We had neighbors over last night for enchiladas. Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
"for the guys here: what is reasonable to expect from life?"
Everyone is different, therefore everyone's answers will be different and will not have anything to do with yours. Some expect success in business, some expect to have a great family life, etc. The question is...what do YOU expect?
"How often do friends check on you or say hello?"
Again, this is an open-ended question. To have friends means that you can call them up if you feel like it and vice versa. Some closer friends may go out with you often and others not so much.
"I feel lonely a lot - are we simply supposed to grin and bear it?"
I'm glad you're feeling this way. Too long have you lived a lonely life and didn't see it as such. This may be your turning point.
"Do we just live from hope to hope, looking forward to the next planned amusement, and ignoring the rest? Right now it isn't much fun."
You're way over-analyzing things again. Bottom line is that you do what makes you happy. I think you've been so "proper" for so long that you forgot what that's like. Here's a suggestion. Go to a playground where children are playing. Watch their faces. They have no expectations or worries about whether someone is going to judge them. They just ... be. They play with whomever and whatever is around them and if there is nothing around, they create things from their imagination. You've forgotten how to "play".
"Stopping my fear of my W - is it just a rational thing, telling myself that she is not an ex-commando, that her weapons are just (admittedly painful) words, at worst?"
It's the FEAR that's irrational. YOU give her power. YOU feel the creature. Imagine if a crazy stranger on a street corner talked to you the way she did. Would you give that person any credence? Would their words hurt you? Of course not. Your W's words don't hurt you. YOU do by giving those words power. You can just as easily take that power away.
When she spews or says something ridiculous, just chuckle shake your head and walk away. See her as the crazy stranger. Visualize that. Understand that you are more powerful than she is.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Bond - thanks - that is one of the kindest things you've written.
PM - thanks also - the only unclear thing in your list is doing what is right - but I need to think more about that.
Quiet weekend - work Saturday, as a big meeting is coming up at work, and student interviews on Sunday, nice to meet enthusiastic, smart kids. Off to the US again tomorrow, gone till early December.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
