We combined our finances while she was earning her MA, now that she has it she wanted to split finances since she makes more than me. So I'm not sharing in any fruit persay, that and the divorce...
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
And on the topic of her MA, she doesn't really need it for her current job but it's something that could give her more opportunity in the future (although its arguable because she makes more with her certificate job than she would in the MA job). We argued about that. She had about 70k in debt from getting her Bachelor's and I had wanted her to hold off on the MA but she wanted to do it. I worked two jobs to get us through that. But with the debt she owes she can't really take off work now to have a kid without the interest swamping us (I have benefits and make enough to probably support us but not support us and pay down the debt). This was a concern for me. I wanted her to work and pay down as much of her student loans as possible in the next 3-4 years so she could take some time off work and have a kid and I would be able to support us. She never really was big about having a kid anyway, so maybe this was a pipe dream on my end. Now though she is saying she wants to move on quickly due to her biological clock ticking, etc.
I know she felt like I pressured her about her student loan debt, but I resented that she really racked it up by living the high life when she was in school. She got to live in the fancy dorm downtown with the most expensive meal plan and paid for everything with loan money and all that stuff while I crashed with friends and drank gravy out of jars and worked my whole way through. I got out of school with a total of $3,000 debt, and because she owes so much money I didn't feel like I could move somewhere for more opportunities because she couldn't leave her job and get a license in another state, etc. So I was stuck trying to find work around the area we are currently in since she made more money. I do ok where I'm at, but I'm back in school now trying to get more education to get a better job.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
So if you knew all that about her going in, why are you now surprised at the direction this has taken? To a casual observer it seems you're blaming your W for decisions you made. You knew she had a lot of debt, you married her. You knew she didn't really want to have children, you married her. You resented her lifestyle, you married her.
Have you split finances?
I don't think you answered the question, Do you love your W?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I married her right before she started getting her MA degree. I was 23 and wasn't sure about getting married but she told me that if we didn't get married she would find someone who would marry her, etc. We had been dating for 5 years by the time I proposed and I thought what the hell, let's go for it.
When we got married I thought she wanted a family. She TOLD me she wanted to have my children since they would look like me and her. She would leave me sweet notes all the time about how much she loved me. She TOLD me her MA degree would turn into this extremely lucrative career, but it didn't and we didn't know how hard it would be to get out of this kind of debt. She TOLD me she would cook for me, start doing more shared activities once she got out of school and had more free time, and I thought our future would be amazing. We were 23.
When she got into the real world though she didn't like working as much as she liked going to school. I think she is someone who likes a lot of structure and accomplishing things. The routine of just doing your job every day doesn't satisfy quite the same as knowing you are building up to something like a degree or a grade. She filled up her time with professional volunteer activities (basically serving on lobbying/advisory boards that just suck up her time and add to her stress) and she spent the rest of her free time trying to "de-stress" from how stressful her life was. This meant that she didn't feel like cooking or cleaning or just being chill. She was always stressed out about something. That was something I didn't know before we got married, and it bothered me because I wanted her to just be ok with things and able to keep a good perspective and not freak out all the time.
I feel that I was mislead into what I got into, but I can't really blame her since she probably wasn't that self-aware, and neither was I. We were kids. I should have taken a harder look at the financial picture and been more realistic about expectations. I think my resentment of our situation helped put a wall between us, especially when I would see her spending money on stuff when I think "that should go toward paying off our debt". I didn't like being that person, but I felt like she would spend a lot and she could always justify it. For example we had a washer/dryer in our apartment complex but she wanted to buy a high-efficiency washer/dryer to put in our actual apartment unit so she wouldn't have to carry clothes outside fifty feet to the laundry room. When her computer died she had to buy a $2,500 Apple laptop with all the amenities even though her job does not require it (she claims it helps her with her volunteer activity). And then there were weekly massages and chiropractor visits. I felt like we would be living hand-to-mouth forever and would never be able to buy a house or have a kid because all of the money was going toward stupid crap that we did not need. I felt out of control as a man. I felt like she always got what she wanted. There was never a time where she said she wanted to buy something and I said "we can't really afford it" and she would listen to me.
Instead of compromising with how we spent money, her solution was that we split up money and don't interfere with each other. She had been talking about it for a while and it got serious when she first brought up divorce back in July.
And yes, I always did love her. We've been together 10 years and she was my first long-term relationship (started when we were 18). We would go on vacations together, dream about a better future, watch the same silly shows, make love, make each other laugh, and all kinds of things. Even after finding out about the lies and the cheating, I've realized there is really nothing she could do that would stop me completely from caring about her.
I would like to be married to her, but in a healthy relationship where we give and take.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
Yes you were. Go back and read 25yrsmlc's post to you. She outlines it very well.
"Her calling me all the time went way beyond normal phone needs."
Who are you to say what's "normal"? What you thought was 'abnormal', others would think differently. These are YOUR interpretations.
"I was also supportive of her while she dealt with numerous health problems including a brain tumor and collitis."
That should be a given. You don't get brownie points for doing things a regular husband is supposed to do."
"I did get on her case about her unhealthy lifestyle."
Controlling.
"I don't want to live my life like that."
You were worried about HER health, yet you complain about you.
"And on the topic of anger, again. I state that I didn't hit her not because I think that is some kind of accomplishment, but because I didn't hit her (and I don't want people getting the idea that I was physically abusive). And I never damaged her property until I found out she was cheating on me,"
You detailed times that you lashed out and it wasn't because of the A. Punching holes in the walls counts.
"and I realize now that was wrong. Mr. Bond, what more do you want from me?"
I don't want anything from you. You are the one who seems to forget what you post. Not me.
"How long are you going to keep bringing that up as if that is the only thing going on here?"
The issue is that you don't see how great of a contributor that is to your problem.
"I realize it was wrong, and I am taking steps to work on it. Yet the only advice you can reply is to keep repeating "damn right she left you, etc".
Go back and read the posts. YOu're not "getting it".
"She was planning to leave me before that,"
I doubt that.
"and she was cheating on me before that,"
Talking to others (even old BF's about your behavior isn't cheating). She wanted to maintain a friendship which to her wasn't wrong. I'm sure she felt the same way about some of your female friends, but you didn't think anything of it because YOU thought it was okay.
"so I have a hard time believing she was some kind of long-suffering victim. And for the record, she never once said she was afraid of me until after she had moved out of the apartment and needed to come up with a reason to give to people about why she left."
Ask ANY woman on these boards if what you did wouldn't make them afraid. You say that you are working on the issue, etc. Well the first thing you need to do is to stop downplaying them.
"She is a deeply fundamentalist Christian and she needs to be able to justify what she is doing to her family and the community."
Mindreading.
labug makes alot of good points. You do seem to blameshift alot and are only talking about what you did and how selfish your W was, when in fact, we who have been on the boards for awhile can see your W's POV also.
If you want to save your M, you are going to have to learn to do that as well. Or you can spin your wheels and keep arguing, in which case, nothing gets solved and you're right back to where you started.
Just my 2 cents.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
1. I didn't have female friends who I hung out with on my own without my wife. That is a boundary I respected. As a man, I had male friends, or I would hang out with my male friends and their wives/girlfriends simultaneously, but not on my own.
2. You undermine your own credibility if you are going to tell me there was nothing wrong with my wife secretly hanging out with her ex-boyfriend for 10 years behind my back. I found emails between her and her ex-boyfriend where she was asking him to go to a burlesque show with her and offering to clean his apartment. meanwhile she was telling me she was going out with her sister or other friends. But that's ok because the WAS is always the misunderstood person who gets a free pass to do what they want? One of his ex-girlfriends actually had to tell my wife to leave him alone, and she told me this after she found out the circumstances. The more recent actual EA was from June 2013 and was literally her going on dates and texting non-stop with some guy she met who told her he had feelings for her and tried to convince her to leave me. He even mailed her a stuffed squirrel that she was carrying around the house for about a week and when I asked her where she got it she would lie to me.
3. I stated the instances in which I was supportive of my wife since a number of people JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS and told me that I was not supportive of her when I have always tried to be supportive of her.
4. I am not trying to blame shift. I know I have issues that again, I acknowledge and am going to counseling for and working on. How is that downplaying the issue? I am doing everything I can. What I am trying to do by talking about my marriage and my W is give people a better idea of what is going on in my marriage so they can offer more helpful advice and not just "well you're a dick".
5. And finally, on the "she was afraid of me issue", she never once stated she was afraid of me or attempted to retreat from me during the course of our marriage. Not even once. I haven't punched a wall in probably over 6 years and I never really put a hole in anything, and I didn't do it directed at her. Say my behavior was inappropriate, ok, but I know she is using that issue now to try to manipulate people into giving her permission to divorce me. And no, that's not mind-reading. Her parents don't believe in divorce and I know for a fact she was trying to get them to accept her divorcing me.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
Hey Magic Jack, we all change as we grow and get older. About having kids, saying something like 'our kids will be so cute because they look like you' is very different from a conversation about the nitty gritty of actually caring for little humans. A lot of people don't have that conversation, now you know the importance of it, you won't make that mistake again.
Quote:
She was always stressed out about something. That was something I didn't know before we got married, and it bothered me because I wanted her to just be ok with things and able to keep a good perspective and not freak out all the time.
We can't wish people to be who we would like them to be, it's impossible and disrespectful. Unconditional love means you accept our partner with all their warts. We either love them with their warts (and feel they love us, with ours)and learn to bring our best self to the table in our interactions or we move on.
You judge your W, and she feels it. Your outbursts of violence don't seem like a big deal to you but you don't know (or perhaps you do) what old wounds that might have opened in her or how it afraid she is of you.
The anger you have inside is not her fault, so maybe it's time to just let her move on and you figure out what that's all about.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Your 5 point response was great - if you're a lawyer.
One of the things that has resulted in drastic changes in me (although I'm still far from perfect) was that I stopped making excuses or explanations, but simply took it and went and thought about it. W would make drastic accusations such as "You never spend any time with me." Obviously this isn't true, and I could've made a list of 27 dates or nice things I did. But if W REALLY thinks that, then there must be some reason. Either she's completely crazy, or perhaps there is some specific TYPE of time that she needs.
Just an example, but even when I thought about something and still disagreed I was able to approach it calmly. At the very least, even if I'm furious, I'm able to say to W, "That really stinks. I'm sorry that bothers you so much." Again, I still mess up, it takes awhile to break bad habits!
Appreciate the advice overall. I am considering all of it, even the advice which I argue with.
I have been doing the following:
1. Giving her lots of space and not calling her to talk about personal things. Not calling/emailing her family or friends. 2. Not acting desperate/needy if she calls me, and not trying to bring up things to talk about. 3. A week or two ago when she was spewing I just listened and tried to validate, didn't argue with her version of events. My concern with validating too much is that I might have reinforced some of her beliefs that I don't agree with. I did lapse a week and a half ago and got into an argument with her via text but apologized and backed off. I'm trying to learn not to get into arguments. 4. Going to a counselor to work on my own issues. 5. Promised her I wouldn't swear at her ever in the future no matter what happened. 6. Lowering my expectations and preparing myself for the possibility that this could really be over.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
