T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
Yeah she called again just now on my work line and I couldn't see the number and answered it. She sounded pretty submissive and was telling me about how she was going to try to fix the damaged table and how much she wanted to sell it for and started to ramble a little. I kept acting like I was busy and had to go and got off the phone first. She didn't argue or make any demands.
Farking nailed it
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
If you try to "explain" things by correcting her account of the facts, then she will probably react badly. But you don't have to agree with her. She is going to see through her own eyes the way she wants, and she will try to justify her reasons in wanting out of the M. Unfortunately, having the anger issues you do, only helps her to make it sound believable to anyone who wants to side with her. The only defense you have about your part of the breakdown in the M is to prove you have changed. So far, you have good intentions, but it takes a lot of time to change lifelong behavior. You can do it, but right now she doesn't trust your good intentions to go any further.
You don't have to listen to her rave, especially if it triggers your anger. Just say good-bye and leave. But don't start explaining anything, b/c she is not in the place to hear it.
She doesn't want to feel bad over the EA, huh? Well, she should feel bad, b/c if she never feels badly for having the EA, then she will never feel remorse or humble enough to want you to forgive her...and that is important. Couples who try to reconcile without working through these steps, stand a,good chance of another A.
I'm not saying you should preach to her, punish her, guilt her, place blame, etc. But neither should you try to pretend she did nothing wrong.....just so she won't feel badly. Both of you have done damage. When and if she ever wants to talk about reconciling, then the issue of her A needs to be dealt with. If she truly wants the M, she will be willing to listen.
LBH'S try to talk the WAW out of D by hashing through the problems. Sounds logical, but you cannot reason with a WAW when her mind is messed up from an EA. I realize that is a scary feeling for you, but talking does not work at this time. A lot of time may need to pass before the talking will be productive. Sometimes, it takes a couples of years, or more, before reaching that place. And that is considering there is not a third party involved.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The reality that you will see on this board again and again is that you really cannot make much progress at all with WAS as long as they are involved with an OP. You're simply shut out. You can do lots of work on you, but not on your marriage, because they are not emotionally available to you. It becomes a waiting game, or "limbo" as it's called, and only you can decide how long you're willing to wait for the affair to end.
Just saw this on another post - it echoes Sandi's point.
I appreciate the advice Sandi and Jon, and everyone else too. At this point I am ok with letting the divorce happen. I have been going to our old MC still by myself and talking about anger with him, and since my W told me she wanted a D a lot of my family and friends have come out of the woodwork and told me stories about her acting immature or saying things that they thought were bad, and this has helped me realize that our marriage was never really an all-in effort. For example, on a vacation earlier this year my W and my female cousin were cooking dinner together and my W told my cousin not to tell me that she knew how to cook since she didn't want to cook for me. There were other stories like that too. in the past year she really didn't make an effort to clean much or even to do my laundry when she was doing hers. I've been doing most of the housework and her lifestyle is work and go out with her "friends".
I don't want to get too far into details or bashing her, but what I'm beginning to see now is that I really wasn't that happy being with her. It was comfortable at times, and even happy at times occasionally, and we had a lot of time together, but I didn't really feel that she was my partner, and especially given how crazy the past few months have been and the fact she's been lying to me throughout the course of our 10 year relationship about her ongoing secret "friendship" with her ex-boyfriend and more recently the emotional affair, I feel like I've been disrespected by her a lot. This is one of my triggers for anger as I've learned, being disrespected. I can work on my reaction to it, but I don't want to be with someone who will blithely disrespect me.
She crossed a lot of my boundaries while we were together, both by lying and also by complaining about me to a lot of other people as I am finding out now.
At this point I am prepared to sign divorce paperwork and continue to detach from her. If she wants to make things work she is going to have to make the effort to get back into counseling. If she won't, I don't see her future relationships going well either.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
I don't want to get too far into details or bashing her, but what I'm beginning to see now is that I really wasn't that happy being with her.
After BD, WAS's tend to rewrite history so that they only remember bad things in the M. LBS's do the opposite, BD makes them put the WAS on a pedestal and remember nothing but good things about the M. Eventually the fog clears for the LBS and they remember the M and their spouse wasn't perfect. So you're getting there now, just take care not to let it cloud your judgment and make you think your W is some kind of witch, because that will detract yourself from the DB'ing path of owning your mistakes and becoming the best spouse you can possibly be. Remember, your journey is about YOU.
"I don't want to get too far into details or bashing her, but what I'm beginning to see now is that I really wasn't that happy being with her."
Now you're going into your own fog.
"I can work on my reaction to it, but I don't want to be with someone who will blithely disrespect me. She crossed a lot of my boundaries while we were together, both by lying and also by complaining about me to a lot of other people as I am finding out now."
Did you ever once think that she did try to reach out to you, but because of your anger issues, you didn't want to listen to her which is why she went to other people? The reason why you haven't gotten anywhere so far in you sitch is because you've made it all about her. She had to live with your anger issues for 10 years and the OM was a safe place for her to go to. I don't think you see and understand that. Just because now you're getting help for your anger issues (which you wouldn't have done if she didn't leave), doesn't mean that she's going to come rushing back into your arms.
I see alot of blameshifting on both your parts.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Bond, I didn't exhibit anger with her on a regular basis. Remember that everything that you know about me is based on what I've told you. In the days immediately following this situation I began to believe that I was completely at fault for this and drove her away.
When I used the term anger, I think a more accurate description is that we fought about things. She would be unhappy or I would be unhappy and we would get into an argument. During these arguments if they got bad enough I would swear at her. She never liked this and would demand I apologize if I ever did swear at her, and I would.
The only time I have ever broken anything of hers was after I discovered her affair, and no that doesn't make it alright, but this is not a situation where I've been terrorizing her over the past 10 years and she's been living in fear.
Her biggest complaint about me was that I was not cuddly enough, and did not enjoy talking to her enough about her day and my day.
And another thing you need to keep in mind is that she has been talking to her ex-boyfriend and hanging out with him secretly throughout our entire relationship, going back to when we were in college and when we only saw each other once a week or so. Back then every moment we had together was very affectionate and fun, and there was never time for fighting, so I don't think the theory that I drove her into another man's arms is accurate. I was working overtime trying to win her back then and apparently my efforts were not good enough to keep her from seeking out this other guy who she had told me she had stopped talking to.
The reason she cheated on me was not because I was scary or terrible, but because she wanted more than what she had. It comes down to a choice on her part. When she wanted to play Mario Kart or other Wii games and I didn't, she would sneak out to play it at this other guy's house. When she wanted to go rollerblading and I didn't, she would go out with these other guys and tell me she was going with her girlfriends. That's nothing I did to her.
She is very conveniently now using the excuse that she is "afraid of me" and that this justifies all of her decisions to be unfaithful prior to me finding out about her affair and going ballistic. And yes, for the final time I am aware that my reaction to that was not appropriate and am working on this in counseling.
I would appreciate comments going forward that are constructive and helpful and not blaming.
T 10 years, M 4 years, both 28 years old 7/3/2013 - W wanted D, we attempted to reconcile 7/20/2013 - discovered W's EA, attempted to reconcile 8/24/2013 - W told me she wanted D, filed papers
