LBH on the Left Coast IV: I Want To Believe

[labug]

Yes, but in stating that do you see that it's trying to control her? that's what these mind exercises are good for, helping us to see what we're really feeling and uncovering our motivations.

[Wonka]

Be sincere in expressing your intentions to W. A false sense of expressing somewhat half-hearted care and concern to W will make her truly mad and you'll be set back in a real bad way. Think of the Candyland and Slides game. One false move and you're way back down to the bottom rung.

Well, my intentions are to help her as much as I can, explain how I feel about her, and to hopefully reconcile. I'm thinking I probably don't want to mention the last two, though, right?

Your intentions to help her are honorable and good. The trouble with this mindset is that your W isn't interested in your help at all at this point. Any R talk will have to be tabled for a long, long time. Your W is feeling vulnerable, pain, confusion, and helpless so she's putting up a wall with you as a means of self-protection. That is how she's operating and coping. There's no right or wrong about her process. It is how she thinks and feels at the moment. Be respectful by giving her space.

What do you really want in terms of interacting with W? Think about this carefully. The next few insights will inform you of the next step. Be authentic and genuine. Sometimes things are on W's terms and you'll have to figure out a way to meet her half way instead of insisting on certain things being done in specific, certain ways. It comes across as rigid and inflexible. And I am betting that it is coming across to W pretty clearly and she's picking up on that

I would like to have a face-to-face, honest and unguarded conversation with her about our M. I realize this is a lot to ask. I would settle for face-to-face and honest.

Again, M or R talk will have to be set aside. It isn't about what YOU want. It is about W right now. She isn't in the right frame of mind to even have any R talk. To address this Berlin Wall from W, it would be helpful to have the exchanges light, fun and innocuous. That is how I made a crack in Ms. Wonka's glacier that was 9 years long in the making. Boy, Ms. Wonka can be pretty stubborn. You might want to take a look at my threads for some ideas on how to keep things light and fun with your W.

I know what you mean about being rigid and inflexible. If anything, she is the one who has been rigid and inflexible since BD. I have not been rigid or inflexible with her for a long time. My reply to her was a question, not a demand or anything like that.

Yup, it is typical for WAS to close off and put up their own Berlin Walls to the LBS. It is a self-protection mechanism. It is only natural that they would do this since there's a lot of pain in them.

I'm not sure where to go from here, I have not heard back from her yet.
The ball is in W's court to respond to your text. Let it be. If you do not hear from W in say a week or two, my recommendation is to send W a fun, get well or thinking of you card. Then you can say, "I'm praying for you. Lefty" And leave it at that.

[HopefulStill]

Yes, I am about your situation, but it does not mean you cannot recover your marriage. You wouldn't want me to blow smoke up your backside just to make you feel good, would you? I took the time to read through all of your post strings yesterday before I responded. Just my opinion, but without a long history together and no kids to bond you, coupled with her actions, I really don't see how you will recover you R without going dark. I know you don't like to hear that, but it doesn't change my opinion.

I really do wish you the best, I know from first hand experience just how hard it is.

[AnotherStander]

Well, my intentions are to help her as much as I can, explain how I feel about her, and to hopefully reconcile. I'm thinking I probably don't want to mention the last two, though, right?

You didn't answer my questions to you. How would you like it if someone you hated were to offer you financial assistance? Would you be inclined to accept it? THIS IS WHERE YOUR WIFE IS. She doesn't like you, she doesn't want your help. Quit pressuring her to accept your assistance!

On your above question, not only should you never say anything to her about how you feel, or your desire for reconciliation, but you need to get to a place yourself where those things are not even on your mind. I think it's Cadet that says to stick in a box and put it on the top shelf of your closet. Your W doesn't care about how you feel about her or anything else. Maybe she will again some day, but not now and not anytime soon.

I would like to have a face-to-face, honest and unguarded conversation with her about our M.

The reason Sandi's rules say not to do this is because it never, ever goes the LBS's way. All LBS's want this, they want to talk sense into the WAS, talk them down from the ledge, help them understand why their thinking is wrong, they want assurances from the WAS, etc. It just drives the WAS farther away and makes them more resolute than ever that D is the answer to their problems. All they can think of in these conversations is "yup, he's the same old controlling, manipulative jerk he always was, all he cares about his getting his way."

If anything, she is the one who has been rigid and inflexible since BD.

Of course, this is SOP for a WAS.

I'm not sure where to go from here, I have not heard back from her yet.

Get out. GAL. Leave her alone.

[LBH_LC]

labug: No, I don't see it at all. Sorry.

HopefulStill: Please, I don't need your negativity, so please keep it to yourself. I have plenty of my own that I have to deal with.

AnotherStander: I understand what you're trying to say, but can you ease up off the 2x4? Wonka asked me what I wanted, I responded to Wonka's question. My W initiated contact and my W said she needs to know what my intentions are. For pete's sake, I am not coming up with this stuff out of the blue.

[Wonka]

Lefty,

I sense that you're wound up pretty tight right now. Breathe, breathe.

When you're ready, please tell us what's happening inside your noggin'. Talk it out here and we'll be here to give you support.

[HopefulStill]

I get that. I lived what you are going through for two and a half years.

There are folks responding to your posts with an immense amount of experience and insight. Some of those posting have been successful at winning their spouses back (myself included) and only come to these boards to pay it forward. I responded to your post so that I could offer you my opinion, with the hope that you too would successfully win your wife back in a very difficult circumstance. I can see that you are very defensive when you get answers that you don't like. Perhaps it is this type of interaction with your wife that is repelling her? Food for thought.

I will heed your wishes and stay away from your situation. Best of luck.

[LBH_LC]

With all due respect, HopefulStill, there was very little in your comments that gave the impression you thought I would successfully win my wife back. Quite the opposite. And yes, I can be defensive, particularly when I feel I am being attacked. I hope that I can be defensive without being nasty. I welcome criticism but I cannot help but arch an eyebrow when people cannot handle criticism of their own criticism and depart with a little dig disguised as a helpful observation about a relationship they know little to nothing about.

Wonka, thank you for the reply, I do appreciate all the help I can get. Yes, I'm wound up pretty tight right now, I feel like I've had people swinging two-by-fours at my head all day in this thread.

Let me be clear: I welcome criticism and input, but I feel like either I have not been making myself clear or people have been misunderstanding me.

I have a lot of things that are weighing on my mind:

• I'm deeply worried about my wife's health.
• I want to be able to make sure he gets the treatment she needs and is currently not getting.
• I've realized I'm a "fixer," and not being able to fix this is driving me nuts.
• The counterintuitive nature of DBing drives me nuts—I worry that I am not doing enough and that my wife is expecting something from me that I'm not giving her.
• The occasional text(s) and then days/weeks of radio silence from the wife is driving me nuts.
• She asked me a direct question, one of if not the only one since January, and people here are bashing me for wanting to reply.
• I have been suffering through a health scare regarding my heart.
• Right now is I can hear the clock ticking.. Another court date in less than month.
• We're rapidly approaching the first anniversary of my dad's death and the holiday season—the first without my wife and my father.

So yeah, I'm just frazzled and I feel like I'm being misunderstood.

Good news for the day: a clean bill of health from the cardiologist this morning!

[MileHigh]

[*]I've realized I'm a "fixer," and not being able to fix this is driving me nuts.

Right there with ya on that. It's hardest for us fixers to put down the tools for a while.

[*]The counterintuitive nature of DBing drives me nuts—I worry that I am not doing enough and that my wife is expecting something from me that I'm not giving her.

Definitely had those feelings, and that worry still arises. But, it seems that the best thing I've given my W is time and space.

Good news for the day: a clean bill of health from the cardiologist this morning!

That is great. Focus on the good stuff!

[Wonka]

Wonka, thank you for the reply, I do appreciate all the help I can get. Yes, I'm wound up pretty tight right now, I feel like I've had people swinging two-by-fours at my head all day in this thread.

It had to be a tough day for you today and not fun at all when people seem to be coming at you from all directions. On top of this, you're worried about stuff in your life and about W. Very understandable from your vantage point of view. (((Lefty)))

I have a lot of things that are weighing on my mind:

I'm deeply worried about my wife's health. A perfectly natural reaction from a caring H.

I want to be able to make sure she gets the treatment she needs and is currently not getting. This one is a toughie. A rational, caring person would want make sure their spouse is in good health by helping them along with their check ups and follow-ups. Remember that W is an adult and is making her own choices. Whether you like it or not, it is her CHOICE.

I've realized I'm a "fixer," and not being able to fix this is driving me nuts. Generally, men are fixers by nature. It can be frustrating to have to sit on the sidelines and not doing a darn thing! Again, you're going have let W be. She knows and has heard from you regarding your concern for her well-being. Right?

The counterintuitive nature of DBing drives me nuts—I worry that I am not doing enough and that my wife is expecting something from me that I'm not giving her. You're mindreading W...by thinking that she's "expecting" something from you. You just don't know unless she explicitly spells out her thoughts to you. She isn't interested in your help at all as evidenced by her rebuffs of your offers.

The occasional text(s) and then days/weeks of radio silence from the wife is driving me nuts. Continue working on that detachment from your toolbox.

I have been suffering through a health scare regarding my heart. Must have been scary to you. Glad to hear that the tests came out for you!

Right now is I can hear the clock ticking.. Another court date in less than month. That sense of urgency is an illusion of your own mind's construction. What urgency? It is just a court date. I speak from personal experience. It will come and go. Don't get too caught up on this mystic 'timeline'

We're rapidly approaching the first anniversary of my dad's death and the holiday season—the first without my wife and my father. You can honor your father's memory in your own special way. I will soon when the 1-year anniversary approaches at the end of this month. Yep, it can be an emotional milestone. Dig deep and find that inner strength in you to carry on.

Perhaps you might want to think about taking a walk out in nature or near a body of water. These elements do a wonderful job in stripping away one's worries, nerves, concerns from you...and replenishing your spirit.

1) Work on your detachment.

2) Might want to consider sending a small card to W sometime next week...a "just thinking of you" card and sign it simply "Praying for you, Lefty."

Please be forewarned that W may NOT respond to your card. Ms. Wonka did not respond to my very occasional cards for a long, long time. I just STFU and went on about my business.