Someone here wrote an excellent post about using "relationship Judo" to lean into your WAS's threats. If they threaten divorce you say "Great idea! That would probably make things better -- what's the first step?"
Don't let them hang threats over your head, just lean into it
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray, that's exactly what my IC said If he brings it up again then I will, but at the moment I'm letting sleeping dogs lie
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
Thanks for the post AS One rule that goes against sandi's rule is this one - 4. Date others. Make them jealous. Play hard-to-get. I have found that if you start following others rules, there's always contradictions in this and causes confusion (I'm easily confused!). The other part that is a bit contradictory is to phone them and make small and happy talk. If you're just learning about sandi's rules and DB, it's like giving that person permission to get in touch with their spouse (I can think of one person in particular regarding this!) then you'll be back to square one in your DB attempts. Other than that, it's a good article and the DBers who have been doing this for a while will know what to pick out and what to dump
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
I guess at this point I'm using this as a journal more than anything...
This weekend came and went with some developments and a couple conclusions on my part: -- I went out with my buddy Friday night and had a good time. -- At 1am W texted me that she was staying with her girlfriend after saying that she planned on coming home originally before leaving. I'm not saying that I didn't expect it, twice in two weeks though is going to eliminate her "I never stay out" excuse real fast, but something about it seemed a little off. It's to the point where I believe she's taken interest in another OM who's shown interest in her. She's exhibiting a lot of the behavior that she did last year during her A. I'm keeping a lot of this to myself because to bring it up will just drive the pursuit into overdrive and push her further underground. Whether she's with someone else or not, it still comes to the same conclusion right now and that's that she is not with me. I can follow her around and check up on her or spy on her messages but that's not going to change what she's doing and at the end of the day, I can't control what she is doing. I didn't push the issue - she already knows how I feel about it - but I only asked if she had what she needed for the night since she planned on coming home to which she replied that she would borrow clothes from her girlfriend, that she was supposedly staying with. -- Prior to her going out Friday, I told her I was going to the beach Saturday AM. She could join if she liked but that was my plan for the early part of the day. She was home by 8am Saturday and got ready to go to the beach mighty quickly. -- We were to have dinner together Saturday night but once we got back from the beach she offered me a "deal" as she put it: She wanted to go out again that night but if she did, she would definitely be home that night, come to my softball game in the morning (she hasn't been to a game all season and knows that it means a lot to me when she does), and we can do whatever I wanted for dinner Sunday night. Again, rather than fight it I gritted my way through it and put on the best face I could to tell her to have a good time. We also had a good time together at the beach so I'll take the small victory in that regard. -- Her "deal" did lead to a very brief conversation (if you even want to call it that) about what we were doing with our relationship, which she prompted. It didn't go anywhere special besides the fact that we came up with options that we have: divorce altogether, separate for some space and see where things go on their own, or come to some agreement to start piecing things together with no guarantees. No conclusions were made but the fact that she started the conversation was interesting. Usually when that type of conversation comes up it doesn't go well and the only conclusion in her mind is divorce. Saturday didn't go that way. Personally, I'd jump at the 3rd option in a heartbeat and would take the 2nd one to try and at least get some peace out of this for some time. -- Sunday was actually a pretty good day. She came to my game which I really enjoyed. The weather wasn't too good yesterday so she asked if she could make dinner for us instead of going out. I was okay with that and we decided we'd go out together either during the week or next weekend, which is my preference. Otherwise, we did some food shopping and some other chores around the house together. I did make it a point to keep myself busy otherwise and not just sitting around on top of her when we were done - it's been weeks since we've been in the house together not watching the clock with plans coming up so that was actually kind of calming to me. -- She called me a little while ago after leaving work that she was going to dinner with two of her girlfriends tonight and asked if we could do our dinner out tomorrow night. She also wants to go out with her friends Sunday night and both Friday and Saturday she isn't able to (she also already has plans to go to Atlantic City next Monday for a coworker's birthday) which is why she's pushing for us to do our dinner during the week. I told her to enjoy dinner tonight and we'll see about dinner tomorrow - I don't want her to fit me in when it's convenient for her but at the same time the fact that she is being proactive in making plans, even if she keeps putting them off, is somewhat promising. Also big time cake-eating but that isn't news to anyone following this thread. -- If I'm building conspiracy theories, I would say that its possible she's meeting up with OM for dinner but who knows. She made it a point to say that she'd be getting home around the time I do so it's entirely possible that she's doing exactly what she says, having dinner with her girlfriends. The fact that she was upfront about it I guess is good at least, where she goes and with who is a different story and I need to stop focusing on that.
That's pretty much it for now. I definitely need to work on my acting-as-if techniques and I need to pick up the GAL efforts.
On another note, I'm expecting a lot her going out and erratic behavior to slow down once Labor Day passes here in a couple weeks. I'm laughing to myself as I write it but for anyone that is familiar with the show "Jersey Shore", those are the type of people that she's started hanging out with recently. They rent beach houses for the summer months in one of the towns along the shoreline here in NJ (we live near the shore already), alter their work schedules around their partying for the summer, and go out to the bars or clubs 4-5 nights a week. Personally, I don't understand it - I feel like you can only do that so much before A) you go broke or B) you burn out from the lifestyle. The summer rentals end on Labor Day and these people migrate back to North NJ and NY where they came from. While damage has already been done with us, I'd be lying if I didn't admit to starting the two-week countdown today. What happens after that should be interesting. She's never been one to keep relationships too active if it isn't convenient for her so we'll see what she does.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
Thanks for the update hurt I'm glad you managed to do some GALing this weekend, it seems to have paid off Very curious about the talk that your wife had regarding where you are going with your relationship. I know I would choose piecing as well, but you can't really do this if she's still acting like a teenager. She sounds just like my H at the moment, hanging round people younger than him and having a good time. I wouldn't have my H back the way he's behaving at the moment, he needs to grow up! I know your W isn't going through a MLC, but she's definitely trying to relive her youth. I don't even think she knows what she is doing, she's going all out to have fun (again like my H). She'll run out of steam one day and wonder what on earth she is doing? Of course as you know, she's got to work that one out by herself! I think it's time to make yourself unavailable. Plan to go out in case she doesn't stick to her dinner date, so at least you'll have a back up plan. Remember Sandi's rules - Accept 3 invites out of 5. She seems to be making more of an effort this weekend, going to the beach with you and going along to watch you on Sunday. It seems that she wants to try piecing with you, but she's still hanging out with these other people! Like you I wonder what she'll do when these friends of hers go home. Watch this space! Like you said damage has been done and it will take time to build that trust back. I think that applies to all us LBS!
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
Oh, and it may sound stupid but I started updating my wardrobe - if you want to call it that. I've been taking advantage of a lot of these back to school sales and replacing some of my clothes that I've been hanging onto a little too long.
Just quickly about our talk on Saturday regarding our relationship - Like I said, I would take the piecing in a heartbeat but I know before any real progress will be made two things need to happen 1) I need to make some changes for myself that will also have an impact on how desirable I am to W, or anyone else, AND 2) she's got some work to do on her own. I can't dictate necessarily what those changes will be for her, she has to figure that out on her own if she ultimately decides she wants piece it together.
I'm trying not to get my expectations up, I'm acutally trying really hard to have none. If anything, at the very least she's making plans. I do need to work on not always being available to her.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
I wouldn't call it stupid to want to change how you look and improve yourself - I'd say good for you! I wouldn't do it for her though, do it for you! I agree with everything else you say in your post You're doing really well, keep up the good work
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
If you had a friend who called you up and told you that his wife spent the majority of her time with friends he had never met, including weekends away and last minute overnights, that she consistently makes and breaks plans with him, but that sometimes she's nice, and he wanted your take on it and your advice, what would you say to him?
If you told her you were going to join her for dinner with her girlfriends (you didn't ask her, you told her), what would she say?
If you told her you were going to join her for the trip to Atlantic City, what would she say?
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
If a friend came to me and described basically the exact situation that I'm in back to me, I would tell him that he needs to be patient. The situation is horrible but if at the end of the day he still loves and wants to be with his W then he may have a tough road ahead to get there. The worst thing he could do is continue to pursue his W because it will only drive her further away. Obviously two things are going on: 1) she's going through something and is doing what she thinks is right by her so despite how logical of a case he may make, it won't get through and 2) he may think everything going on is related to her behavior but what was his role in the relationship up until that point? Rather than talking, he needs to be acting and working on making himself a more appealing option to her than what currently exists. At some point he may need to think long and hard about how much he is willing to go through before he moves on and if he focuses on himself and GAL, he should be in a better place to do just that.
As far as the questions specific to my W, with her being a WAS and judging by how some of our interactions go when I pursue her: -- She'd say that they are her friends and that she wants to be able to have friends that are separate from our "joint" friends. -- There's only two weeks before they are gone for the summer and she "never" used to go out all the time. -- The trip to AC would be similar but she would also come up with a reason about she's sharing a room with her friend, etc. -- Basically, she would come up with a variety of reasons why I shouldn't go.
Two years ago, those responses would have been a lot different, I can guarantee that. She's in a different place right now.
As a side note, my conspiracy theory was wrong last night. She did go to dinner with her friends and not another OM. That isn't to say there isn't an OM but I just need to be careful about jumping to conclusions. As I work on detaching a little more I should be able to handle that better but right now I still have some work to do in that regard. I did however tell her I couldn't do dinner tonight like she proposed - Like has been suggested I need to not be so available to her.
One thing I noticed is that this time around I'm not necessarily "sad" about the situation. I'm more frustrated than anything that we are here again. Since this seems to be a recurring issue for her and us, I need to really take stock of where we are, what I am looking to achieve and is it really possible? Do I want to be with someone that can't decide what she wants? Are my feelings about our marriage and towards her enough to work through this again?
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
If he brings it up again then I will, but at the moment I'm letting sleeping dogs lie