Hi..Mooka..sounds like your h is very unsure what he wants right now...my h mentioned it for months about leaving..at first I think I said we could not on the m if youleave..then the wise LL and KAw, just to mention a few..said that if I ppush him..it will surely send him...so I did not..but when he finally made the move..I supported it..told him if that is what he needs then go...but I worked on me for all the time he's been gone..and it is the best thing that could have happened to both of us...I now see that nothing I could have saud or done was going to change how he feels...but waiting out the storm and knowing that I wanted this m..has paid off. I do see that peicing is another challenge...the same fears are there..just different. Give him the space...
You two are hitting right on the nose. Yes, My H does not think any self help books/tapes or even counselling will help him. He thinks he is smarter than that....that all he needs is time and space.
This morning has been kind of rough for me.....he mentioned he was going into the city to work for a few hours (like that's a surprise), but then he's looking at neighborhoods and potential apts. He has looked casually off and on over the past several months....but today he sounds as tho it's for real. I am soooo glad I've been reading some of your history, Sue...and LL, when your spouses left your home. That helped in my responce today. I sat quietly, listened....and said "I want you to do what it takes to figure this out for yourself." I was calm....but somewhat quiet. Then, over the course of the morning, he keeps asking me about my thoughts/feelings. At first I put him off and said I was still sorting through those and have not formed any real conclusions. A while later, he asked again. I said ok....this is what I thinking about. "I want you to find out who the real H is...what you are all about and to figure this out. I, too want happiness, love, and passion in my future with you or one day someone else. I said I do not want to live in a Maintenance mode....just for the sake of the kids and appearances. I said, if moving out and having space will get you there, then that's what you have do do." I also said, "I know my emotions can get the best of me, and I am finding myself distancing from you. Whether that be for self protection and/or building internal strength. I said, maybe you moving out will be good for both of us. I also, started the whole thing, with me willing to give our M all we have....considering all we've invested. (Almost 25 yrs married....plus 3 years prior...dating). We even talked about how we would tell our kids....the logistics of keeping our R private from others....except the very few we trust. We were in agreement about all that stuff.
So, he knows, I'm willing to go the distance...but he says he needs to find out what he's all about, before he can even committ to trying to work on the M. (That really hurts....but I'm learning to accept that we are at such DIFFERENT places here). YUK..
I held it together, said I wanted to go to church (which he almost never does....part of his deal....no strong faith). He followed me upstairs, talked to me while I was getting ready. Asked me about dinner together tonight. He asked if I was ok, I said it's hard, but I will be fine. I said I knew he worried about me (he said YES, I DO)....and reinterated, that I'd be fine, that I had strength and resourses to draw from.
Church helped, as it always does....God is there guiding me....gotta keep my faith and trust with HIM.
I came home, he was gone, and I had a good cry. Read many of your posts and am trying to figure out if I should do a 180 this afternoon when H gets home. Should I say..."maybe this IS all for the best.....maybe I'm relieved to also have some space to sorts things out." I don't want to overstate my thoughts, tho....maybe not say all that, just act "as if" things will be fine. And like you've all said, I will be ok.
Thanks for letting me rambel....
Anyone, with feedback, today and tonight, Id really appreciate it!
Mooka...I know you are sad..hurt..confused yourself...but keep talking to yourself that yoou will come out of all this ok..you have the choices...he sounds genuinley caring about you..and that is a good sign..let him know you will support his decision...I am never saying to be a doormat of any kind..but if he is showing care and concern, then he needs to know the same back..I can't advise on any r that has the yelling, hate kind, as I have not had that.
Keep involved in your faith...I was not very involved in my church until a few years ago when we got this wonderful pastor...whom I call an angel sent here to heal and uplift many people..especially my h and I...did I really ever believe in the power of God and prayer..the truth is not really..do I now? You bet..He has the plan for our lives..the good, bad and the ugly..but He will be beside us through it all..
Keep smiling..as hard as it gets..you will be ok..in time
{{{{{Sue & LL}}}}}} Thanks you two....I needed to hear your words of guidance and support.....and YES you both have given me HOPE for the future of our M. I do know that God has a plan (and yes thanks LL for the reminder of not praying selfishly....to pray that H will find his way and to give me the strength and patience to go forward the best I can)
I think we did talk enough for one week-end. This thing is, he often asks me how I'm doing, what are my thoughts. In general, he always was the best communicater in our R...he just backed off the last couple of years. So, maybe his constant concern is a good sign (?!?)
We also talked logistics this morning about buying me a new car! What I drive is getting old....he wants me to have something reliable and fairly nice....So I'm going car shopping in the next few weeks. Yahoo....that material stuff doesn't do it for me, tho. Oh well, I do need a reliable car.
Thanks for the feedback so quickly....my spirits are already lifted
I really appreicate my new found friends/supporters here on the posts.
Hope you had a good weekend, too bad about the tennis gig, hopefully they'll have another one you can take part in soon..
Lets take a look at whats going on here..
Quote: I sat quietly, listened..and said.."I want you to do what it takes to figure this out for yourself." I was calm, but somewhat quiet...
BRAVO, outstanding act of calm, confident, in control Mooka, very good. PERFECT answer.
Quote: Then, over the coure of the morning, HE KEEPS ASKING ME ABOUT MY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS. At first I put him off and said I was still sorting through those and have not formed any real conclusions.
EXCELLENT. For all you DB viewers at home, look at how Mooka is handling this rather trying situation. She is sincerely agreeing with how her H needs space to figure himself out, which in of itself, unwittingly pulls him closer to her emotionally, because she is willing to SACRIFICE for him..and of course, he then wants to know how she feels, because he's taken aback by her willingness to let him move out on his own. He expected her to act in a more defensive, perhaps pleading manner, and she didn't, now he's WONDERING whats going on in her little head. She has just taken the crucial first step in perhaps getting him back, because she is starting to play the game on more even terms..she's acting a little more like a WA rather than a LBS, and now he's wanting to know what her feelings are, trying to figure her out, etc..not the normal behavior from someone who is so set on pulling away..
Quote: A while later, he asked again..I said OK..this is what I'm thinking about
Once again, he wants to know whats going on with Mooka, because she's not behaving as he expected. Now he is more concerned about why she's ok with him leaving, than he is about actually leaving.. Mooka, up to this point you handled yourself perfectly. Then you started to explain yourself, talk about passionionate futures, maintenance modes, and the like and then you start to give control back to him because not on the same page in terms of all that stuff as you are. Next time, just stick to something more like.."Look, I'm just not sure how I feel about all of this right now, maybe you moving out IS the best thing for both of us...blah, blah, blah" You achieve far more by not explaining your true feelings and simply just validate his need to leave, AND let him continue to wonder about YOUR sudden uncertainty in terms of where things stand. VERY EFFECTIVE..keeps him a little off balance, which is WHAT HE'S BEEN SO EFFECTIVE AT DOING TO YOU..
Quote: He asked if I was ok. I said its hard but I will be fine. I said he knew he worried about me..(he said YES, I DO)..I reiterated I'd be fine.
Yes Mooka, you will be fine, but in all honesty when i read that reply, I start to feel pity for you more than thinking how ATTRACTIVE/CHALLENGING you could have been to him by calmly responding something like.."I'm fine, thanks for asking thats sweet of you.. Actually, I'm kind of wondering if YOU'RE going to be OK. I mean once we're seperated, I just want to make sure I DONT LEAD YOU ON into thinking I'm going to be waiting around for you to come back... Then all of a sudden, you eliminate the pity, and you continue to have him WONDERING just who is this STRONG, CONFIDENT, NON DOORMAT he's dealing with, versus feeling bad for you because HE'S LEAVING. Remember Mooka, very, very, seldom to we fall in love with someone we pity. We care about them, but pity rarely equates to ATTRACTION in a romantic way..
You're doing very well. I'd just leave things as they are tonight and not say anything more, and as always: ACT HAPPY JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE, BE HIS TEAMMATE towards however he sees things, whatever is meant to be is meant to be. Accept your H for who he is and what he feels he must now do, and take it from there..
Hey Wiley.... Great to hear from you again.. You really took some time to catch up with my sitch and you gave me some very valuable feedback. first the positives, but then the mistakes/pity-type responses..... You were exactly right about being too honest. That's who I am naturally, so holding back some....being a little more distant, yet confident in my future is definately the way to proceed. THANKS for the skilled DBing insights. When we talk again, I will tell him I'm concerned about how he is doing and will be. I'll re-read your ideas. Just wanted to say that input gave me strength and ideas for future conversations. He will be in town all week, again...so we will be talking, I'm sure. Remember, he usually/almost always brings up the R talks.
I will demonstrate with my behavior, that I can take of my self, my needs, and enjoy life on my own. I will be ok...I now that.
I just to unload here a bit....sort things out in my head.
Last night we had an ok night. I made a decent dinner, acted pleasant, easy going. Not overly upbeat, but pleasant. He was respectful. Asked what I did that day. We made small talk and joked around about our dog, etc.
He fell asleep on the couch, that's when I caught up here. Later on, he woke up and asked me how I was doing. I said, "just fine." He said, " you know....I do feel kind of lost....everything is confusing me...work, our sitch, not knowing my own direction in life.....blah, blah, blah" I listened attentively, said I really wanted him to figure stuff out...to be happy again....to find the real H, that I saw nice glimpses of the H I had first met...the fun, easy-going, insightful person. I said, "I sincerely want you to be happy again, so whatever it takes I'm ok with"
Then he lightened up abit, joked around with the dog and we went to bed. (never any affection or closeness...sometimes quiet talk about the weather, dog)
This morning before work, he said over coffee...."Well I looked at apts yesterday, and found one that may work out. He may put a deposit down this week to get jump started." I asked what part of the city (we live in the burbs)....and the area is the same as the OW (he doesn't know that I know that....back in my spying days, I figured out where she lived...tho never saw them together) Inside I was starting to be reminded of all that....that pain is not too deep below the surface. I covered well, tho. Just stayed quiet. He then kept asking what I thought about all that. I said, "I glad you are finally making plans to figure all this out." He kept pressing me for more of a response, but I said, "I'm fine with it." At the train, he asked again.....I said, "You know, I actually feel better this morning than I thought I would, I'm ok with this." He got a little edgey, and said if I'm holding back and being quiet, that leaves room for him to speculate and that was not a good thing. He kept repeating that....and said he wanted feedback when he mentioned significant things. " I said sometimes I need time to process stuff....he said he totally understood.
Now you know the long drawn out version....(SORRY)...I am now just trying to figure out how to be. Do I act all supportive of this move? Do I pull away more....become more distant? Do I act friendly and upbeat? What do do??
BTW, I also have been pondering our brief conversation yesterday morning about telling the kids. I will be visiting our older D in college out west at the end of Feb...he thought maybe I should tell her in person....over the long week-end, so she could process it all (she's our sensitive, emotional one)...then he thought he could follow it up with a dinner with her on a business trip out there the following week. I agreed with that plan....but now am wondering, "WHY ME??" He is the one that is moving out to "find himself"....can seem to do it here. Why do I have to take that one on. I'm thinking this one through.....I care more about her and her feelings tho....Then we also agreed to tell our son the following week-end when he was home. I may have a session with my C to process through this one.
Thanks for letting me go on and on.
Feeling kind of sad today....but will exercise, work some, and see some friends for a distraction from all this.
Yeah it's me, the not so dedicated DBer with my 2 cents worth....
Your H keeps asking YOU how you feel and YOU keep validating HIS comfort. Why NOT tell him exactly how you feel? You can do that with the same serenity as you have demonstrated everything else.
You ARE permitted to be HONEST about YOUR needs and feelings. That doesn't make them a demand or an effort to control him. BUT he keeps asking you HOW this is effecting you and YOU keep pretending that everythings PEACHY when both HE and YOU know that what he's about to do is UNACCEPTABLE if the goal is to rebuild your M/R.
Your silent surrender is giving him permission to act out his selfish needs and allows him to appease his guilt (for what he damn well knows its NOT an honorable thing) by reminding himself that, "Well hell, she's okay with it so it MUST be good for ME."
It's true that it appears that he's about to walk no matter what you say...but do you have to let him go with your 'blessing'? I don't think so. T2
Mooka, up to this point you handled yourself perfectly. Then you started to explain yourself, talk about passionionate futures, maintenance modes, and the like and then you start to give control back to him because not on the same page in terms of all that stuff as you are. Next time, just stick to something more like.."Look, I'm just not sure how I feel about all of this right now, maybe you moving out IS the best thing for both of us...blah, blah, blah" You achieve far more by not explaining your true feelings and simply just validate his need to leave, AND let him continue to wonder about YOUR sudden uncertainty in terms of where things stand. VERY EFFECTIVE..keeps him a little off balance, which is WHAT HE'S BEEN SO EFFECTIVE AT DOING TO YOU.. 