Heres my update. My wife did go to MC (by herself) and opened to the C a little. She does not show any signs of wanting to work on our M and told the C that she is not likely to come back to MC. I feel now that it is better that she not go until if/when she wants to work on M. No surprise there. She is so done with me right now.
She also seems to be withdrawing more too. Not sure what to do about that. The 180's I have done seem to annoy her more than anything. I feel they annoy her because I am not giving her any reasons that she could use as an excuse to leave, not that she needs one. She doesnt seem to like that I am in a good mood when I am around her either. Especially when she is not in a good mood around me.
She still avoids conversations and interactions with me. I just give her the space she wants. I feel she is not getting the space she desires due to us living together (we are basically roommates with kids). Our interactions with the children force us to interact and I feel that is wearing on her too. I am out of town for work on average 4 days a week but, because I call the kids every morning and evening to say hello, maybe thats not enough space? I dont know if it is or not.
I have MC on Wednesday and I have no reason to believe that she will attend with me. I only tell her I have an appointment so if she chooses to go, she can. At this point, I am going to MC for myself and I have to say that I am adjusting to our situation better everyday. I still have a bad day once in awhile. For the most part, I am feeling emotionally better than I have in a very long time. Still detaching more and more. I dont no how to gauge the detaching but I would say that I am 85% or more detached, lovingly of course.
I am GAL and socializing much more these days. Mostly at work. Moving forward with improving myself and my relationship with my kids.
Other than that, still in limbo. Just waiting on her to make a move one way or another.
You are all in my prayers and I wish you success with your situations.
Vets, please critique my update and let me know where I have made any backslides please.
Heres my update. My wife did go to MC (by herself) and opened to the C a little. She does not show any signs of wanting to work on our M and told the C that she is not likely to come back to MC. I feel now that it is better that she not go until if/when she wants to work on M. No surprise there. She is so done with me right now.
Don't invite her to MC. I don't see how it can help the situation at this point.
Originally Posted By: BKS
She also seems to be withdrawing more too. Not sure what to do about that. The 180's I have done seem to annoy her more than anything. I feel they annoy her because I am not giving her any reasons that she could use as an excuse to leave, not that she needs one. She doesnt seem to like that I am in a good mood when I am around her either. Especially when she is not in a good mood around me.
So the DB-ing is working, it is making her reevaluate why she wants out of the R. The only suggestion is whether you are doing the right 180's. If you are, then eventually your W might acknowledge them. It took my W a few months before she said something positive about any of my 180s.
Originally Posted By: BKS
She still avoids conversations and interactions with me. I just give her the space she wants. I feel she is not getting the space she desires due to us living together (we are basically roommates with kids). Our interactions with the children force us to interact and I feel that is wearing on her too. I am out of town for work on average 4 days a week but, because I call the kids every morning and evening to say hello, maybe thats not enough space? I dont know if it is or not.
Living together is a positive for your sitch so that the W can see your 180s, your GAL, and your PMA. Don't jeapodize that . Maybe stop calling when your away is good, or at least call less. Your kids can go a day without hearing from dad.
Originally Posted By: BKS
I have MC on Wednesday and I have no reason to believe that she will attend with me. I only tell her I have an appointment so if she chooses to go, she can. Vets, please critique my update and let me know where I have made any backslides please.
BKS
Don't invite her to MC. Keep the DB-ing going.
My W is in MLC, the direction of her unhappiness has shifted from me and our Marriage to her job. This has made our interactions better, she has expressed love, but then backs away from it. She runs hot/cold. One night we can have fun together and laugh, and the next night she is distant and moody.
If your W is in MLC, then this is a long journey by all that I hear. Look for those small improvements that DBing instructs us to look for.
W has opened up and we are talking more this week? My wife brought up the R talk by stating that we are not on the same page with regards to our M. She didnt come out and say that she wanted a D but she didnt say that she wanted to work on the M either.
I try to look at this as a positive (ok, maybe just neutral )but my wife is just trying to be more civil towards me (her words). Its better than the cold shoulder treatment that has going on for so long. She says that I am taking it the wrong way, meaning, that I am looking at it as we are moving in a positive direction. She says she doesnt feel the same way. I believe her. I told her that I understand that she is not happy with us and that I understand that our M may not work out.
We then had a fairly productive talk about where we are with our R. Not very positive mind you, but it was the most we have talked about our M. She stated that we havent been doing things as a family for a while and the she thought that we understood that is the way things are now. I told her that we dont do things as a family because that is her choice, not mine. I stated that I would like to start doing things together as a family so that we may start to close the divide between us. She agreed with me that there is a divide and that it is not closing.
I told her that I wanted her to understand that my goal was to keep our family together. I said that I understand that she does not want that right now and asked her to acknowledge that that statement. She back peddled so that she would not have to admit that she is making the choice to break our family apart.
Journaling Section:
6-21-13
Wife states:
-She is not interested in dating anyone right now.
-Regarding dating- we must inform the other prior to dating anyone.
-She does not feel the same way as I do about reconciliation.
-She does not know if she will ever feel for me again.
-She said that I may have to eventually accept that she does not feel the same way about our M as I do right now "IF" she continues to feel the way she does. I told her that I dont have to accept it and that I wont give up on her and our family. That is my choice.
-She said that she is happy just being by herself and with the kids right now.
-She said that she would like us to get along even if it doesnt work out.
This recent talk does not give me much hope that she will change her feelings anytime soon, if ever. I know, I know. Its a marathon, not a sprint.
I think it is progress (not really positive progress I suppose) that she has opened up to me more in the last week. It has been 3 months since she has been willing to talk to me about much of anything. The progress seems negative but she is at least talking about our R and venting what her feelings are.
MrBond and other Vets, please let me know where I am backsliding so that I may try to improve on that. After proof-reading my post I can see many backslides. All critiques of my situation are welcome from anyone.
She does not show any signs of wanting to work on our M
I would have been shocked to hear otherwise after only a few months since BD.
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I feel now that it is better that she not go until if/when she wants to work on M. No surprise there. She is so done with me right now.
Quite right. She's done for now and no amount of C is going to change her mind. In fact MC usually just helps the WAS to firm up their position, and it often speeds up S or even D.
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She also seems to be withdrawing more too. Not sure what to do about that.
Give her time and space! When she withdraws you should move AWAY from her. Any move you make towards her is pursuit and will drive her farther away.
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The 180's I have done seem to annoy her more than anything. I feel they annoy her because I am not giving her any reasons that she could use as an excuse to leave, not that she needs one. She doesnt seem to like that I am in a good mood when I am around her either. Especially when she is not in a good mood around me.
Good, this is actually perfect! The reason she's annoyed is because she wants this to be easy, she wants to HATE you! She wants you to be a selfish jerk to reaffirm her belief that the M is done. So when you make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave, it makes her confused and ANGRY! This is why we say to do 180's for months and months, it takes that long for the WAS to believe the changes are real and not just tricks to lure them back. She is also no doubt thinking "why couldn't he change months ago when I wanted him to?" That's exactly what my W thought and she actually resented me for changing after it was "too late" (she told me this at RetroV).
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I dont no how to gauge the detaching but I would say that I am 85% or more detached, lovingly of course.
I thought I was after a few months as well. But I wasn't. I would venture to say it's almost impossible for anyone to have detached that fast. I believe that you think you have, but after 10+ months you'll look back and see things differently I suspect. I'm just mentioning that because you're probably still going to cycle and I just want you to be prepared for it when you cycle down.
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Just waiting on her to make a move one way or another.
= not detached. When you become detached, you won't be waiting for her to do anything.
-She does not feel the same way as I do about reconciliation.
This tells me you're putting too much R pressure on her. She should be wondering whether you want to R or not. The fact that she knows you want to R means you're talking about it too much.
[*edited]
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-She said that I may have to eventually accept that she does not feel the same way about our M as I do right now "IF" she continues to feel the way she does. I told her that I dont have to accept it and that I wont give up on her and our family. That is my choice.
See above. You're arguing with her feelings, you are invalidating her when you should be validating her. Validating is not agreeing, it is acknowledging. She says she's done and doesn't feel that way about the M? You tell her "I hear you saying you don't feel good about the M anymore, I understand why you feel that way." You do NOT tell her "but I feel different, here is what I want..." Because she DOESN'T CARE what you want. Not right now.
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This recent talk does not give me much hope that she will change her feelings anytime soon, if ever. I know, I know. Its a marathon, not a sprint.
Right, it's a marathon. She loved you once, right? So now she has chosen not to love you. What makes you think she can't change her mind back again?
Last edited by dbmod; 08/31/1302:29 AM. Reason: Reference not recommended nor allowed
S and I are communicating more although I still am having trouble being a good listener. I continue to go to MC by myself. I am able to keep a quiet and steady demeanor even when she raises her voice to me in a heated discussion.
She brought up our R recently. Nothing positive for the most part. She has recently stated that she is willing to go to MC with me. I think she is getting frustrated that I am not giving her any excuses to leave our R. I ran into her sister at the store on Tues the 25th. She invited us to a birthday party she is having for my sons cousin. I told her that W is going out with her girlfriends. I asked her if it would be okay if I brought the kids. She related to me that I was part of the family too and that I was welcome to do that.
Apparently, her family has very little idea about what is going on with us and our marriage. She said that she heard that something was going on with our M but didnt know what it was. The sister gently asked about what is going on. Aside from a few vague comments, I explained to her that speaking about our M would not serve my purpose of reconciling our M at this time and would only inflame my W.
I called her a little while later to confirm that she was ok with me bringing the kids without W. She said that it was.
Fast forward to dinner time last night:
I asked W if she had heard from her sister about the bday party and she said that she had. She said that she told sister that we were not able to make it. I told the W that I would be taking them and that I had already worked it out with her sister. Well, that went over like a ton of bricks. She lectured me that she was not happy about me going. I told her that I understood that she is unhappy about it.
Then, this morning, she asked me what I was doing today and I gave her a rundown of my schedule. When asked what I am doing on Friday (bday at 6pm) I told her I was taking the kids to their cousins bday party. She then said that she would now have to cancel her plans with her girlfriend tonight and take the kids to the party. I told her that I didnt want her to cancel her plans and that she should go out with her girlfriend. I told her that either way I planned on going to the party with the kids.
Well, she was not happy about this new developement.
dont snoop and dont try to get her family on your side. There is no way you can go to that party and not "drop" hints or kiss their bums or ask lots of open ended questions.
Focus on you and create goals that you have 100% control over.
She needs space REMEMBER she needs to make the choice to come back to you............in order to do that she needs to find herself first
ME 38 W 37 T18 M5 D3 BD 1/7/13 PA Conf 2/11/13- Ongoing 2nd simultaneous affair Confirmed 4/19/13 W gets APT and begins transition out 5/29/13 First mediation appt 12/19/13
I ran into her sister at the store on Tues the 25th. She invited us to a birthday party she is having for my sons cousin. I told her that W is going out with her girlfriends.
I'm not sure you even know this yourself, but it sounds like you're trying to rally your in-laws to your side of things. Basically you said "W is going out for a wild night of partying, but I, being the responsible party, am willing to bring the kids on my own." What you SHOULD have said is "I think W has plans, but let me check with her and we'll let you know." THEN you ask your W if she would mind if you took the kids yourself, and tell her that if it makes her feel uncomfortable then you won't do it. You have to remember, they are HER family. I don't care how close you think you've gotten with them, when you're knee-deep into a D they will ALL rally to HER side because that's what families do (just like your family will rally behind you).
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I asked her if it would be okay if I brought the kids. She related to me that I was part of the family too and that I was welcome to do that.
So you asked SIL for permission....
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I called her a little while later to confirm that she was ok with me bringing the kids without W. She said that it was.
Then you called her again to ask for permission...
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I told the W that I would be taking them and that I had already worked it out with her sister.
Then you TELL your W that you're doing this regardless of what she thinks and that you've already worked it out with her sister? Try to step out of your sitch for a moment and read that and try to see how it looks to others. What it looks like to me is controlling, manipulative behavior.
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Apparently, her family has very little idea about what is going on with us and our marriage.
And it is not your business to tell them. If they ask you then your response should be "We both just need some time and space right now to think about things." You DON'T do this:
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Aside from a few vague comments, I explained to her that speaking about our M would not serve my purpose of reconciling our M at this time and would only inflame my W.
Because this is blaming your W for your sitch. You communicated that you want to save the M and your W does not, and that your W is easy to anger. You are pushing your agenda. Again, I don't think you're consciously doing this, but you need to hear it because it is damaging any hopes for reconciliation that you may have.
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I told her that I didnt want her to cancel her plans and that she should go out with her girlfriend. I told her that either way I planned on going to the party with the kids.
If this were something like taking the kids to the zoo or aquarium, etc. then I'd say you were doing the right thing since she had other plans anyway. The problem is this is her sister, and plenty of other relatives will be present. She will be conspicuously absent, and they'll all want to know where she is, and you will tell them. Either directly or indirectly they will deduce that she is a terrible mother that is out partying instead of supporting her kids. THIS is what she's thinking. I think you know that, and I think that's why you're doing this. You've got to quit thinking this way, guilt is not going to drive your W back into your arms. People do stuff like this a lot here and it ALWAYS blows up in their face.
Thank you AnotherStander for your critique. It means a lot to me that you and the others here help so much.
I am still learning. I have been following Sandi's 37 Rules as close as I can. I have also read in DR and DB that when one thing is not working, do something different. For over 3 months there has been no positive progress by doing what I was doing. I am still doing my 180's and acting AsIf and I am getting nowhere. I know she has to choose to come back to me on her own but she shows no real signs that anything is improving. It maybe as simple as she is so far gone that she wont ever be able to come back.
As for her side of the family... What S is doing to me with respect to walking away, she has done this sort of thing before to most of them, her parents included. She has shut them out and avoided them for lengths of time on several occasions throughout her life. Sometimes for years. Her family has very little tolerance when she behaves this way because they have seen it many times before. My W is very aware about their opinion of her. She sees herself as the black sheep of the family. She feels that they dont accept her for who she is and for the most part, I agree with my S about that. Her families opinion of her is not unfounded though.
My S is what you call a "bad drunk". Its as if alcohol is toxic to her. Her father is a doctor and works with kids who have drug and alcohol addictions. He and W's mom have told my W that she should never touch alcohol again. She becomes obnoxious and can become violent. I have only seen the violent side a couple of times personally. I, as well as her family, have seen the obnoxious side of her being drunk on several occasions.
Regarding the kids going to their cousins bday party, I ran this scenario with my MC. My MC has DB on his bookshelf and is pro-marriage and uses SBT type techniques. He said that based on what has been going on, that I need to set some definite boundaries. I made the plans to go and didnt want to back out. She was invited of course and ended up going with us begrudgingly. I think my patience has recently been wearing a bit thin with all of this.
I proceeded with this strategy because DR states that when something has not made any positive changes, you must try something else. For two months of doing what I was doing, there was no positive progress.
Then, I committed a monumental backslide, please correct me if I am wrong.
As previously stated here and to my S, I am not comfortable with her hanging out with "divorced dad" while I am not around especially in my own home. If you recall, last weekend, they went to the drive in movies together with the kids and then, two days later, he came over to our house and drank beers with my W until about 9:45pm while I was at work. This did not sit well with me at all.
Prior to last weekend, I talked with my wife about her hanging out with divorced dad, and told her that this behavior was creating issues between her and I and that I was not comfortable with it (my exact words). When she went to the movies and then he came over two days later anyway, I felt very hurt. I repeated to her that I am not comfortable and that it is creating issues between us.
Here comes the backslide. I talked it over with my MC and I told him the situation and said that I have had about enough of being her doormat. I told MC that I wanted to have a talk with divorced dad and tell him that it was creating issues and that I am not comfortable with him hanging out with my wife while I am not there. I told him that I didnt mind our kids playing together, but him hanging out with my wife while I am not around makes me uncomfortable. And so I did.
My MC and I agreed that I should say something to him. He said that saying something to him COULD potentially be less detrimental to our M than not saying anything at all. He also said that it COULD have a potentially negative impact but, coming across as having self-respect may be the better option in this case. Once again, he said that boundaries should be set.
I went to my S9's practice where I could talk with him, face to face. He did not show up with his son so I called him and told him over the phone. I then went home after S9's practice and informed W that I had talked to divorced dad.
Well there it is, this weeks update.
As always, please critique my update so that I may learn. I fear that I may not have the patience to keep up the facade. My tolerance is getting very low. I have stated to my wife numerous times that my goal is to keep our family together and that she is worth the fight.
