I have been lurking here for about a month now. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who is having a marital crisis. This is one of the most difficult times I personally have ever experienced.
Here's my story.
About 2 1/2 months ago my wife came to me and said our 10 year marriage was stressed. I knew we werent as happy as we had been in the past but, I thought that it was due to the financial difficulties we are experiencing. I wanted to talk it out but she was not ready at the time to talk. Shortly thereafter, I got the ILYBINILWY talk. All of this sent me into panic mode regarding our relationship and proceeded to do everything DB says not to do and I pushed my wife even further away. Then I found this site about a month later and I was thankful to finally have an idea of what was going on. As soon as I could find the books, I read DB and DR and reread them. This forum help me a great deal too.
I am still trying to define what my wife is going through. I asked myself, "is this MLC or WAS or both?" I think it is a little of both.
I have been following the DB advice about 180's, As If, Doing what works and not doing what does not work. I am not sure it is working though. Not enough time has past. Some days are better than others.
Heres the situation: Wife resents me for numerous reasons. We have two children, S9 D4. We still live in the same house together. She sleeps in my D4's room. We talk cordially about the kids and thats about it. We still have meals together. We sometimes cook together. We go to church together on Sunday's when Im home from work. We go to family functions together, (for the time being) She has stopped wearing her wedding rings. I still wear mine. I recently took a nearly 50% pay cut. (One of her resentments towards me.)
There are a number of other things too.
I have detatched from her. I have done 180's I have acted As If Follow the 37 rules and DOs and DONTS from this forum (Thank you so much for posting them here) I have backslided a few times I have started marriage counseling alone, she is not interested at this time. I have seen evidence of DB working. Read all the Sermons from HeartsBlessings. Read DB and DR more than once. I pray... a lot! I still cry from time to time but mostly when in counseling and I am talking about the crisis. Not in front of her.
The one thing that has help me the most to get from the begging and pleading stage to where I am now is following the advice I found here in this forum.
Thank you to all of your who have spent so much time sharing your stories here with everyone so that we dont feel so alone.
Like most of us here, I have no idea where we will end up but I have hope. I have given control of my marriage to God. I can not control anyone but myself and I have accepted that.
Other than that, I take each day as it comes. Sometimes its a better day, others, not so much. I am new so I am not much help to anyone right now but, I will contribute to this forum when I can help.
What has worked: She has taken notice of the 180's and asked why am I doing these things now. She gave me the "Too little, too late" speech. I told her that I have to start somewhere.
GAL is in its infancy stage and I am working on that. I have let my individual life go for the sake of family for so long. I go out with the guys and girls from work more than I have done in quite some time but that only amounts to several times so far. Finances have been tight so thats my excuse for not having a life, outside my wife and kids. I see now how detrimental that has been on our R, as well as, my well being.
As far as her being in MLC, still not sure. She is 45 years old and is reflecting on where she is now at this stage in her life. She said, when her life is nearing its end, can she look back and say that she is happy with how she lived it".
Last night, at the dinner table, my D4 ask her if she made her appointment today. Apparently D4 heard her talking on the phone to someone about it. I asked what appointment. My S9 ask her what the appt. was about. W said that she was taking care of business. After the kids left the table, I asked her if she had an appt. with an attourney? She said she was not ready to tell me yet. Hmmmmm... Sounds like it to me but that is pure speculation on my part. I then asked her if she was seeing a Marriage Counselor and she said maybe. So I cant tell. Everything she does points to D.
I will continue to work on me and the children and not worry about her. Its is very hard to sit in limbo like this. Internally I am saddened but outwardly just being quiet for half a day. Normally, I act As If everything is fine and I am happily moving forward with our situation. She noticed that I was being quiet this morning and asked why. I told "no reason, just trying to get ready for my 4 day business trip".
Below is what I have been doing but as far as what I think is working, I dont know. She may be so closed off right now that in her mind, the only way out is a D. Thats the impression I get.
I have done 180s with respect to my appearance, the way I dress now, and I have lost almost 30 lbs. I get up with the kids every morning that I am home whether she does or does not. I keep the house straightened up, I do the dishes, I give the kids their baths, I make the beds in the morning et. al. This is the stuff I really didnt do in the past. Something I now regret.
I have stopped pursuing and pleading. I mostly come across to her as detached but happy and moving forward with my life.
I sometimes get quiet when I am having negative thoughts. This usually makes her ask why am I so quiet. She asked me why I was so quiet this morning actually. I just told her no reason, just trying to get ready for my 4 day work trip.
She goes out a one to two nights a week with her girlfriends and I dont ask why, when, where or what time she will be home. When she comes home, if im not sleeping already, I will ask if she had a good time or say goodnite to her before she goes and sleeps in our daughters room.
She invited me to sleep on the couch last week and I told her no. I gently said that I refuse to do anything that will push us further apart.
I did a little backsliding last week too. She tried to blame me again for all of her problems. She said I am the reason that she is so unhappy and that I should file the D papers. I told her that I am sorry that she feels that way and said yes I was not the perfect H but, this informal separation was her idea and that if she wanted to leave then she should leave. I said, "I cant stop you but dont threaten me with leaving again". Not sure that was the best response. I would like any of your opinions on this backslide.
--How is your GAL doing? What are you doing to GAL?--
As far as GAL, I need to work on that much more. I have started exercising regularly and jogging. I think the next time I am home I will just go out and do something/anything. I would rather stay at home and play with the kids but when they go to bed I will go do something with a friend or by myself. Maybe take a drive or go to a movie or go to the coffee shop/book store.
As far as signs that corroborate what I am doing and what is working. It is still to early to tell I believe. Somedays she is quite cordial and an hour later, she is back to being unhappy with me. She is happy when she talks to anyone else but me right now. Thats the roller coaster ride I am on.
I have only been purposefully DBing for about two to three weeks now and I am getting better at it. I have a long road ahead of me though. I will keep looking for the signs but right now they are so subtle. She has laughed at some of my wisecracks lately to the kids, thats something I guess.
My goal is to improve my listening and communicating skills with her and to eventually reconcile our R. I am trying to be the guy that she wants to be around. I laugh and have a lot of fun with the kids. When she is there, she notices and I think she gets a little jealous of it. My daughter has become somewhat of a daddy's girl lately and she usually is a mommy's girl. This seems to agitate my W and she will try to cut our good time short. Then other times the W will join us.
--What behaviours from your W make you think she might be MLC?--
Wife's behaviors that make me think she is in MLC? She has emotionally abandoned me and our R. She has no interest in working on M or going to counseling. She said she know that she is being selfish but "Thats how I feel", she says. She know that it will harm us and the kids but, she cant help it. She did slip though yesterday. My D4 heard her talking on the phone to someone. At dinner my D4 asked if she made it to her appointmnet? She said she did. My S9 said what appointment, what was it for? W said she was taking care of business. I asked if she had an appointment with an attorney? She said she was not ready to tell me yet. I then asked her if her appointment was with a marriage counselor? She said, "maybe". Could go either way I suppose but the thought of her seeing an attorney put me in a very negative mood. I was quiet the rest of the night and into the morning.
I am trying to keep the blinders off and it seems that she just may be done with our relationship and may have someone on the back burner. Just pure speculation on my part though but it sure seems that way.
I will keep detached and keep my heart protected for now until I see better signs of her heart thawing.
Kaffe Diem, you say that WAS can have a change of heart? How would I best work that solution?
Much of what a LBS should do while DBing is FOR the LBS. IOW, it's growth of the LBS, regardless of whether the M is saved.
Your W gave you the "too little, too late" script, yet in reality, the 180s you are doing, you would have to do anyhow, if your were D. So you are doing them for YOUR benefit, not for her's. Keep that frame of mind and keep doing the 180s, they ARE working.
Understand that while you want to keep up your PMA, the reality is, you won't always have good days. If you are having a down day, you can simply tell your W that you are not interested in talking about your feelings. You don't have to lie, you just don't have to share.
You may backslide now and then, yet it sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep doing what you are doing.
We talk about how the DB work a LBS does is the same, regardless of MLC or WAS. The biggest difference is, someone in MLC will go through the MLC process, regardless of what the LBS does. It may then appear futile to do anything until the MLCer is done, the thing is, they are not completely blind. Doing the work NOW would mean that a lot of the positive work has already been done and be permanent. MLC just can take a long time (years).
A WAS (and we've seen a few here over the past few years) can eventually hit a time when, months to a few years after the BD and separation, the memories of the GOOD parts of the M start to come back to the WAS. Time DOES heal. So if the WAS is not too far out the door, the DBing can change the LBS and change the sitch and possibly result in the WAS considering R. Or, if the WAS is already out the door and even D, all the good DB work will at least result in you being an even better man, father and possibly H, that when your W DOES look back... she may see someone she wants to have a R and possible M with.
Hope that makes sense.
Keeping doing the good work and moving yourself forward!
Had a talk with the wife last night. I told her that I understand that she is disappointed with me and asked if she would like to talk about it. Surprisingly, she did. I asked her how she felt about us. She said that she is uncomfortable around me. (I have been DBing fairly well and trying to be a man that she would want to stay married to). I asked what specifically have I done lately that makes her feel that way? She then responded that she was just "pissed" at our situation.
We have taken a 50% cut in my pay and that is what she is pissed about. I told her that I completely understand how she feels. We have know that this pay cut was coming for almost year and I told her that we need to be saving as much as possible. Since I make the money and she pays the bills, she told me that she knows our financial situation better than I do. Subsequently, no money was saved.
So it seems that the major hurdle in our relationship is money. Shocking, I know (sarcasm).
So my question is, short of winning the lottery, what can I do?
Also, she admitted to me that she is uncomfortable around me. Suggestions on how to handle that?
New developement. My wife and I hardly talk to each other about our relationship. I dont bring it up because as per the rules of DBing, we dont do that.
So at MC last week, I asked my MC how I should approach my wife to ask her if she would consider going to MC with me. In the past, she has said that it wont help. That she doesnt want to talk about our issues with a stranger etc. I asked her if there was someone that she would feel more comfortable with, like a friend, to mediate. She declined that too. I left it at that and accepted that she wont go.
She called me about two hours later and asked why I want her to go to MC. I told her that I wanted to see if there was any way that we might be able to work on our issues. She said that her feelings have changed for me and that she doesnt see them changing back to the way they were (ie loving and caring). I told her that I understand that her feelings have changed and because peoples feelings change, that those feelings can change back. I related our crisis to chapter six (I believe) in DB. The one regarding Gina and Roberts crisis. It is almost identical to our situation. That our situation is a common one in marriages and that many people have been successful at reconciling their M and R. I told her that our problems are normal marital problems and that there are solutions to fix the relationship but we both have to try.
I then said that my feelings have changed too and that we are not making progress in a positive direction regarding our R and that I felt that the two of us dont know how to fix our R on our own.
She said our problems started about 8 months ago. I said to her that if you look at our 10 year relationship like a chapter book, each year being a chapter, nine chapters have been good chapters and we have had one partially bad chapter. But, I also said that the book has many more chapters to go and may have some very good chapters to come. The book has not been finished being written. But, if we dont try, we will never know.
She reiterated that her feelings have changed towards me and that she doesnt see that changing on a positive way. So I told her that part of the reason that I am trying so hard to find a solution to our relationship was so that if it doesnt work out, at least I tried everything that I could to fix it and I will have a clear conscience and the peace of mind that I did all I could in case it cannot be saved.
She then said that she still doesnt want to go to MC, but if she doesnt go, she will look like the "bad guy" who didnt try. I told her I understand. Its the proverbial rock and hard place. She said that she doesnt think our R will ever be the same. I told her that I agreed. I said that our relationship wont be the same but, we have a chance to make it better and stronger if we try. If we try and it doesnt work we can at least say that we gave it 110%. Not only for our R and M but for our children too.
She then said, much to my surprise, that if she DID go, she may just sit there and not say anything. I was floored! She just said that she may consider going to MC with me! I am not getting too excited yet (well, a little bit) because she is not sitting in the MC office just yet but, this has been the most significant step forward on her part since the BD three months ago. I understand that she may be going just to be able to say that "she tried and it didnt work" or "wasnt for her" but this is a positive developement. I dont know if her feelings can change back, thats her decision. I have hope though.
I will talk to my MC tomorrow to ask him how to cautiously proceed so as not to scare her away from the MC appointment on Friday. She hasnt committed completely to going yet. Any advice from the veterans or anyone else, between now and Friday?
You pressured her and lectured her. IMHO, I think that C is going to turn out very poorly. She could be saying that she would go to MC just to supplicate you.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
When I read your posts I see some good DB'ing and a lot of bad DB'ing. Specifically, you seem to do pretty well at getting your W to open up and when she does you validate well. But you are going against DB'ing with all of the pressure you're applying on her.
Originally Posted By: BKS
She called me about two hours later and asked why I want her to go to MC. I told her that I wanted to see if there was any way that we might be able to work on our issues.
You should not push for MC. Your W is done, done, done with you. You need to see this from per POV, she doesn't want to lift a finger to save the M. You've got to sympathize with and validate her position and quit pushing YOUR agenda.
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She said that her feelings have changed for me and that she doesnt see them changing back to the way they were (ie loving and caring).
Typical WAS script, but she truly believes it. She can change her mind on this, but you cannot. You have to give her time and space so she can sort her thoughts.
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I told her that I understand that her feelings have changed and because peoples feelings change, that those feelings can change back. I related our crisis to chapter six (I believe) in DB. The one regarding Gina and Roberts crisis. It is almost identical to our situation.
SHE DOESN'T CARE. You cannot "help" her see this, you can't present logical arguments to her, they do not work. Her emotions are driving her actions. You're applying pressure, pressure that she doesn't want.
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I told her that our problems are normal marital problems and that there are solutions to fix the relationship but we both have to try.
She doesn't see them as "our" problems, YOU are the source of her problems. The answer is to get rid of YOU. So you have to show her you are not the source of her problems. You do this by 1) fixing every complaint she has about you and 2) giving her time and space away from you. Become the spouse only a fool would leave.
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She said our problems started about 8 months ago. I said to her that if you look at our 10 year relationship like a chapter book, each year being a chapter, nine chapters have been good chapters and we have had one partially bad chapter.
You are still engaging in all of the "wrong" things that people do early in their sitches. The WAS rewrites history. She doesn't see this as just a bad phase in the M, she sees the entire M as bad and you cannot convince her otherwise.
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But, I also said that the book has many more chapters to go and may have some very good chapters to come.
Read Sandi's DB tips. One of them is not to talk about the future. Print out those tips or save them somewhere and read them every single day, multiple times a day if needed.
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She then said, much to my surprise, that if she DID go, she may just sit there and not say anything. I was floored! She just said that she may consider going to MC with me!
You didn't hear what she said, she warned you where this would go. Just don't do it. MC doesn't work with a WAS. She will pick out the pieces that work in her favor and ignore anything geared towards saving the M. It's basically something for her to check off her list of "things I tried to save the M that ended up proving it's not worth saving".
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I understand that she may be going just to be able to say that "she tried and it didnt work" or "wasnt for her" but this is a positive developement.
You are correct, and I'm sorry to tell you this but it's not a positive development. I know you want to pin your hopes on this (I was there too almost a year ago), but it's false hope. You underestimate how "done" she is right now. I've read many, many sitches that involved MC and it NEVER helped. More often than not it accelerated the WAS's desire to leave.
