Wife dropped the bomb on me two months ago

[BKS]

Another Stander and Mr Bond,

Thank you so much for your replies. And thank you for the reality check. AnotherStander, thank you for taking the time to read and dissect my post. I am very new to this and I appreciate you and anyone elses constructive criticism. That is something I dont get outside of this forum, brutal honesty. So thank you and keep it coming.

I wish I was off MOD so I could have got your responses before I did the backslide. Damn...

Monumental backslide.

Well, I will have to dust myself off and keep on DBing. It feels like every backslide has the potential to be the fatal blow in our R. I understand that the fatal blow may have already been delivered to our R long ago.

I do read the 37 rules almost everyday. I cant believe that I did not apply them in this situation. I guess I just got excited that she may consider going to MC. I do believe that if she does go, it may very well be so that she can say "I tried" to her family.

Her family is applying pressure to her also. She told me yesterday that her parents keep texting her to tell her to make the right decision with respect to her M. I related to her that I can see how that could upset her.

Another question for you.

We still live together with the kids but are essentially separated. I make the money (not much money mind you) and she pays the bills with it. I have my check directly deposited into my account and transfer what she needs to pay the bills to her account. There is usually not much left over. She asked me, for the first time in 5 years, to see my actual paycheck. I told her since we are essentially separated, that I was not comfortable showing her.

Was this a good or bad decision?

She has her boundaries and I do my best not to breach those boundaries. I have a few boundaries too.

What are appropriate boundaries for the LBS to have, with respect to a WAS? Please include financial boundaries.

She asks me about my MC and what we discuss. I tell her that we talk mostly about what my role in damaging the R and how I learn to stop doing negative things to R's.

Is it appropriate to talk to her about my MC? I tell her it's mostly to help me through this crisis.

Thank you all again. This forum is a great help.

BKS

[Accuray]

She asked me, for the first time in 5 years, to see my actual paycheck. I told her since we are essentially separated, that I was not comfortable showing her.

Was this a good or bad decision?

Why don't you want to show her? Are you trying to punish her for her choices, are you trying to protect yourself in the event that she divorces you? Are you trying to hide extra money away without her knowing?

I can't comment on whether or not it was a bad decision without knowing why you made it.

Here's the general rule however -- your wife resents the hell out of you right now. She let things build up without airing them for a long time, so there is a big load of resentment.

Each interaction you have can either add or help to remove resentment. If you blame her, shame her, make her feel badly because you are sad, etc. etc. it's going to make her resent you more.

If your goal is to reconcile, then you should have a "resentment yardstick" and measure your decisions against it -- will this make her resent me more or less?

I would say that hiding your payslip will make her resent you more, not less. If she sues you for divorce, it will be a discovery document and you'll probably have to hand it over anyway with the rest of your financial records so I don't know what you're accomplishing.

On the other side of your resentment yardstick you have to have your boundaries. You cannot and should not be a doormat in the interest of reducing resentment. This is a difficult balance, however, because your boundaries really have to be about protecting you, not punishing her.

What are the appropriate boundaries for the LBS to have? That's a very personal question and only you can answer it. One example might be that if W was spending the money from your joint account to buy gifts for OM, you would establish a boundary that if she continues to do that, you will start paying the bills and buying the groceries out of your own account and stop funding the joint one.

You're not telling her she can't buy gifts for OM, you're just saying she can't do it with your money.

That's a pretty extreme hypothetical, but you get the idea. If what she does or says is going to hurt you, then you establish a boundary that you will not accept that treatment, and to prevent it, you will take these actions for yourself. You can never tell her what she can or cannot do, only what you will do.

Accuray

[BKS]

I am trying to protect myself in the event she divorces me. BKS

[MrBond]

I don't understand why she asked to see your whole paycheck. Doesn't she pay the bills?

You know it really isn't just about money. It's the stability and the unknown that is bothering her. Of course a REAL W would have gotten a job to help with the situation. Have you looked at other avenues to earn money for yourself?

[Papa4Life]

Jesus, Accuracy, why isn't your last post a sticky at the top of this forum alongside sandi's? I've never seen this point distilled and expressed in such an effective way?

BKS, while I've not read through much of your sitch, in this instance, I urge you to give this last post from Accuracy (an apt username if I've ever heard one) some serious thought. This is very good advice.

[BKS]

Still on MOD.

I did not want to show her my paystub since we are technically separated. She has no intentions, as of today, on working on our issues. I wasnt comfortable showing her. This is an effort on my part to protect myself in the event of her filing for Separation or D (I do know that my finacial sitch is discoverable in court). I did not show her so I could set up boundaries about financial matters. She has told me that she knows our financial sitch better than I do and that is true with respect to paying the bills. I told her a year ago that the 50% paycut was coming and for whatever reason, we were not able to cut back on spending. Now we are forced to cutback.

Perhaps, not showing her the paystub, is the wrong boundary to establish. Please let me know, beforehand, if I should give her a copy of the paystub. I will not show her until I hear back from one or two of the more experienced DB'ers.

She wants me to act like I am her devout husband (which I am), when she is not acting like my wife. I still love her more than anything and I act "As If" that is the case. I am fixing all the things that I can about me that will let her see that she would be a fool to leave me. I feel that it IS "too little too late" and she has said the same. So I will move forward with my life as if she is not coming back, to protect myself. My hopes and prayers are that we will be able to work out our issues in a positive way that will allow us to find each other again and make our M and R better and stronger.

I will keep acting "As If" as long as it takes or until I decide I have had enough. I know she is stressed out about what has happened to our M and R. I know she is stressed out about what this will do to the kids and her parents and the rest of her family.

I am new to this and I thank all of you for your critques on the way I am handling this sitch. Please keep the constructive criticism coming. Sometimes I need a 2X4 smacked upside my head for me to get it. If any of you run out of 2X4's let me know. I will give you another. LOL

I do not blame her for this. This crisis is something that we both had a hand in creating and right now, I do my very best to make her feel that I am not blaming her. As you all very well know, she blames me for everything. I accept that. She feels hurt and scared and I try to relate to her that I understand that.

And finally, thank you Papa4. I give all posts from this forum serious thought. I know I dont understand all of what is going on with my crisis and how to manage it. That is why I am so thankful for all of you helping me and all of us who ask for your sage advice.

Without this forum and the help of more experienced DB'ers like yourselves, I would be utterly lost on how to cope with this crisis. Thank you all so very much.

BKS

[Papa4Life]

Hi BKS, how are things today?

I just wanted to stop by and offer my support and perhaps chime in on some of your points in your previous post.

First off, the fact that your W blames you for everything is straight out of the WAW script. You can acknowledge and validate her feelings, but you're right to think that you both had a hand in reaching this point.

As for your big question, the pay stub, I think there are a few things to think about that might help you reach an informed decision. First, why don't you want to show her? Are you concerned that she will start spending more irresponsibly if she knows how much she has to "work with"? or are you trying to secret some money away for later?

On the other hand, are you concerned that letting her see how much money you make will make her more secure about what she will get in a D, and thus give her a sense of confidence to move things along more quickly?

As you say, she will find out anyway in discovery, but if you don't want her to know because you need to buy time or you don't want to add fuel to her fire, perhaps it's a good thing to make her wait.

Just realize, though, that this will likely make her resent you, so it's a matter of weighing the benefits that you stand to gain against the ill will you'll almost certainly engender by refusing to give her the information.

Good luck to you. Oh, and "too little, too late" is the WAW's line, not the LBSs. We believe that any small gesture is relevant and meaningful at any time. In fact, it's what most of us are praying and hoping for. So if you still want to have a chance at R, I'd start by eliminating those thoughts toot sweet .

Not a 2x4. Let's call it a friendly reminder.

[BKS]

Okay here is the update.

Last night I was not sure if I should show my W my paystubs. When I told her I was not comfortable just yet showing her, she got upset.

My MC (as well as you here on this forum) made me realize this morning, that not showing her would only serve to make her more resentful and less trusting. Short story, I gave all of this years paystubs.

We had a conversation about it and about what we, or should I say "I", am going to do to make more money so that we have enough to pay our bills. I related to her that I would try to pick up some more time at work.

MC session this morning went well. W did not attend. I am getting better at distancing and detaching while still walking that line of being the husband that she would be a fool to leave. That line is proving to be difficult to manage but I think I am getting better at it, thanks to all of you.

Thanks everyone for all the help so far. I will keep you posted and please keep the constructive criticisms coming. It helps me tremendously to stay on track.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of us that find a need to be on this forum. This forum has helped me tremendously so far.

Thank you

BKS






We had a conversation about them and also about what I covered in MC today.

[MrBond]

"I did not want to show her my paystub since we are technically separated."

But she relies on that paycheck to pay for the basic necessities for her and your children, correct? You said that she pays the bills so of course she needs to know how much is coming in.

"She has no intentions, as of today, on working on our issues."

And she has a right not to want to do that.

"I wasnt comfortable showing her. This is an effort on my part to protect myself in the event of her filing for Separation or D"

No, this is you trying to control the situation. You can't just dictate how much to give your spouse just because you feel like it.

"I did not show her so I could set up boundaries about financial matters."

You're trying to control the money and her.

"Perhaps, not showing her the paystub, is the wrong boundary to establish. Please let me know, beforehand, if I should give her a copy of the paystub."

yes you should.

"She wants me to act like I am her devout husband (which I am), when she is not acting like my wife."

Mindreading. This is just your sore feelings making you feel like this.

"I will keep acting "As If" as long as it takes or until I decide I have had enough. I know she is stressed out about what has happened to our M and R. I know she is stressed out about what this will do to the kids and her parents and the rest of her family."

But you don't treat her as such.

"I do not blame her for this."

It sure sounds like you are or at least hold some major resentment against her.

"She feels hurt and scared and I try to relate to her that I understand that. "

Keeping the money away from her isn't showing that.

[BKS]

Mrbond,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post.

I posted some of this earlier but, I am still under MOD control, they dont post right away.

How do I get off MOD?

I am so new at this that I dont know what is proper to do and what is not. I have read DB and DR and the 37 rules and so much more. I just need help with applying them to my situation.

I posted a reply earlier today stating that I have given her all of this years paystubs. I was not keeping the money away from her, just the paystubs. I see that this was wrong. She has never asked me to see them or the past 5 years. It just seemed so out of the ordinary that it made me nervous.

I see now that you are correct with respect to witholding the paystubs. Mind you, I am still learning. So thank you for pointing out what I am doing wrong.

I talked it over with my MC and he said the same thing- to build trust, dont withhold that kind of info from her. So I will not. I was just scared that it would be a mistake to give them to her in case she was seeking an attorney. I now realize that even if she has, its not my place to try to control the information and therefore control her.

I am trying to find that line between "my boundaries and being too controlling". Like I said, I am only about 2 months into learning how to manage this. So thank you all so much for all your help. Keep it coming please.

BKS