Since the communication has continued you will not need to make a choice as to how much more you feel it is acceptable for the communication to keep going.
Personally, I think it may be time to confront her IF you are ready . By ready I mean...are you will to lose her (which in some case you already have) when you confront.
Starsky is probably the best I know to provide the step by step on how you need to confront in a loving way.
Before you confront I suggest that you be very clear on what your boundaries are, how they will be enforced and what the consequence is if they are not adhered to.
Good luck man.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Limbo is NOT a place you want to be. What happens in limbo? Often:
- erosion of the family's finances, as sometimes two residences are maintained, legal fees are incurred (by one or both parties), family finances are spent directly or indirectly on the affair (gifts, large cellphone bills, trips, etc. etc.)
- erosion of the betrayed spouse's self-confidence, emotional health and sometimes even physical health (and I'm not even TALKING about the very-real STD issue here);
- strengthening of the emotional and physical bond between the affair partners. Affairs are highly addictive, and like most (all?) addictions, they usually ESCALATE before they ever peter out (if they even do).
- children (where applicable) suffer. Kids are sensitive, and the stress in a home that has been invaded by adultery is NOT pretty. Kids are left confused, hurt, sometimes unsupervised and almost always traumatized in some way. Just ask the now-adults of their parents' childhood affairs and divorces.
- The cheating spouse themself suffers. Contrary to what us betrayed spouses think, they are usually NOT enjoying their affairs. Trying to live the level of deceit necessary to pull it off is unbelievably stressful, the guilt tears at them, they often lose close family and friend relationships as those people learn about the infidelity, and cheaters often lose weight and overall physical health and rigor. They are often borderline or outright depressed. IT'S NOT PRETTY. Nor is Limbo. It's no way for anyone to live the life that God gave them.
Starsky
Affairs are portrayed by hollywood, poetry, and music as romantic. The post above gives you the brutal truth about it.
They're not romantic at all.
Unfortunately, your wife is infatuated. This means her hormones are completely out of balance over this guy. She will view this as romantic until you change that view for her.
Talking won't change it. You actually have to bring some of Starsky's points above into her life.
Legal actions Selling homes Child custody negotiations
Forcing your wife to think about these things brings the uglier side of infidelity to her doorstep.
That's the only way to shake them up out of their infatuation stupor.
She's sleeping until you wake her up. Not with words, with actions.
I now have more time to formulate a proper message with some updates and commentary on what others have shared with me or questioned what I have written.
I agree with the notion of the OM being a predator, and that does anger me to high levels. I am amazed at my control of this anger (one of the things that I have changed about myself) but believe me I have never lost site of this. I am trying to deal with it as best I can and that does include an ineveitable confrontation about the A.
And yes the timing of when to confront is going to be extremely critical. Many of my questions here have helped me to formulate a when and how this will happen. As I mentioned there has been some digital contact that I know of between my W and OM, but I have been able to negate all face to face contact which is part of my plan. I am able to influence this for the next 2 weeks after which is when I am planning to confront. This will be after we have spent a lot of time together and after we have shared several trips and had many good times together. The idea is that my W has seen the changes (which she has commented on many things and has changed her actions to/towards me as well…..in positive ways) and realizes that I AM the man she wants to be with.
I am still formulating my approach and what the boundaries will be that I am going to state. This is where I could use some current input. I obviously want to show that I and our M deserve respect from her, but I do not want to be so harsh as to drive my W away. I am still figuring this out myself.
And yes as recently noted, I actually had figured out that my W is lying to the OM about us, what is going on between us, and several other aspects of the current actual truth on what is my side of reality. I can’t quite formulate the reasoning here (again insight on this is very welcome if anyone has experience with this…). One possibility is that maybe she does not want to let the OM know we are trying to work it out (although there is still hesitancy on her part) and as I mentioned his life is in turmoil as he initiated divorce proceedings ( not that I give a rats ass about that).
Unfortunately the last night before we came home, I kind of had a minor slide back which I am hoping is not hugely detrimental. My W overheard me saying something and I am not sure how much of it she caught. It would lead to the fact that I know about the A even though currently nothing has been said openly between us. I was able to deflect what she actually heard, but I do not know the extent of the rest. Regardless I am using that as a solid reminder that I need to keep it together ALWAYS, but as noted several times here it is not the easiest thing to do, and we all make a mistake now and then.
The support I receive here is my strength and calm right now. I appreciate you all and please keep the advice rolling in as I am finding something useful from every post and again I am gaining strength for all of it.
And yes the timing of when to confront is going to be extremely critical. Many of my questions here have helped me to formulate a when and how this will happen. As I mentioned there has been some digital contact that I know of between my W and OM, but I have been able to negate all face to face contact which is part of my plan. I am able to influence this for the next 2 weeks after which is when I am planning to confront. This will be after we have spent a lot of time together and after we have shared several trips and had many good times together. The idea is that my W has seen the changes (which she has commented on many things and has changed her actions to/towards me as well…..in positive ways) and realizes that I AM the man she wants to be with.
I am still formulating my approach and what the boundaries will be that I am going to state.
Yes, by all means let the pyromaniac continue to play with the matches and the kerosene for a little while longer, while you "formulate your approach."
I am still formulating my approach and what the boundaries will be that I am going to state. This is where I could use some current input. I obviously want to show that I and our M deserve respect from her, but I do not want to be so harsh as to drive my W away. I am still figuring this out myself.
MIR, you are struggling with trying to figure out what your "N.U.T.S." are -- your Non-negotiable boundaries of personal integrity. If in stating these, you "drive your wife away," why then she was not someone you could have put up with anyway, at least not in her current behavior.
To me, that's the beauty of boundaries, or -- as I like to call them -- "My Boundaries of Personal Integrity." Only YOU know what they are, but they should be a very short list; your "dealbreakers," as it were . . . those things that you, as a person with your values, morals and ethics, simply CANNOT ABIDE.
And this is how it works, in practical application: If you decide that "I will not live in an open marriage," and you state that as a boundary to a cheating spouse, and if that drives them away from you, and toward the other person? Well, then that's THEIR CHOICE, and them cheating -- and staying with me -- wasn't an option for me anyway, based on my own authenticity and values, so what have I lost?
All I've lost in that instance is something that I could not have abided anyway.
"You must choose between him or me" is an ULTIMATUM. It's about THEM.
Boundaries should be about YOU -- "I will not live in an open marriage." It's then up to the other person to decide what to DO with that information you've now shared with them, so seriously.
And yes the timing of when to confront is going to be extremely critical.
Yes timing is important but so is HOW you do it. You must not waver. You must be strong in YOUR conviction that you do not want an open relationship.
Most importantly, you need a plan. Everybody is different but I think having a plan and STICKING to it is key.
For example (some of these may not be applicable)…. • Responses – you should have an idea on how you will respond to what she may say…for example – it’s your fault, It is nothing really we are just friends, I was going to tell you, etc. • Finances – If they are joint, then you need to have a plan on how to separate them. • Cell phones – If she is on your plan and continues to have contact, well then she can get her own plan. • Bills – who pays what and who’s name is on what. You should have a plan for how you will need to separate bills. • Debt – Realize that in most places, while you are married the debt assumed is both of yours.
Quote:
but I do not want to be so harsh as to drive my W away.
IMO, not a good way to think if you are going to confront. You should be at place where you have come to realize that YOU deserve better and will only accept the best in your life. Look if you are rehashing the mistakes you made, I get it. Get over it. You made mistakes, we all do. In terms of “driving her away”…she is headed in that direction by virtue of her actions. Can you make worse – yes..if you are total as*hole; hence how you confront is critical.
Quote:
I actually had figured out that my W is lying to the OM about us, what is going on between us, and several other aspects of the current actual truth on what is my side of reality. I can’t quite formulate the reasoning here (again insight on this is very welcome if anyone has experience with this…). One possibility is that maybe she does not want to let the OM know we are trying to work it out (although there is still hesitancy on her part) and as I mentioned his life is in turmoil as he initiated divorce proceedings ( not that I give a rats ass about that).
The reasons right now are irrelevant. You need to look and work with facts. Fact, she may be warming up to you BUT she is still communication to OM. Fact, she is lying to OM about what you guys are doing. Fact, OM has initiated divorce proceedings. Based on these facts, you need to determine what YOU can live with. Spending time trying to figure it all out, IMO, is useless. You will get answers from her (unless she lies) when you confront her.
Quote:
I kind of had a minor slide back which I am hoping is not hugely detrimental.
Nothing that you say right now …with the exception of scream at her and calling her names…is probably that detrimental. At some point this will come up…if it comes up now because she overhead something..well then, I would call that….”I guess it was suppose to happen this way”.
Don’t be afraid MIR. Yeah it is scary..you will be okay no matter what happens.
You have, if I understood you, asked about boundaries and what is acceptable. I agree with Starsky that YOUR boundaries are really YOUR. Not mine, not Starsky’s, no one but yours. Having said this, if I was in the position that you are in my ONE boundary would be :
I will not be in an open relationship. While you have contact with HIM, I will not be part of your life.
I would then give my partner a period of time (something I would be comfortable with) in which to make a choice. During that time, I would begin the process of cutting all ties. Period - end of discussion.
I would not beg, I would probably not respond to anything that was said to me. I would not jump for joy if she said to me, I want to work things out, on the contra cry, I would ask HER what she planned to do to regain my trust.
I’ll close with this….as Starsky pointed out….make this about YOU not HER.
This is your life MIR. Only you know what will work for YOU
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Limbo is NOT a place you want to be. What happens in limbo? Often:
- erosion of the family's finances, as sometimes two residences are maintained, legal fees are incurred (by one or both parties), family finances are spent directly or indirectly on the affair (gifts, large cellphone bills, trips, etc. etc.)
1 - erosion of the betrayed spouse's self-confidence, emotional health and sometimes even physical health (and I'm not even TALKING about the very-real STD issue here);
2 - strengthening of the emotional and physical bond between the affair partners. Affairs are highly addictive, and like most (all?) addictions, they usually ESCALATE before they ever peter out (if they even do).
3 - children (where applicable) suffer. Kids are sensitive, and the stress in a home that has been invaded by adultery is NOT pretty. Kids are left confused, hurt, sometimes unsupervised and almost always traumatized in some way. Just ask the now-adults of their parents' childhood affairs and divorces.
4 - The cheating spouse themself suffers. Contrary to what us betrayed spouses think, they are usually NOT enjoying their affairs. Trying to live the level of deceit necessary to pull it off is unbelievably stressful, the guilt tears at them, they often lose close family and friend relationships as those people learn about the infidelity, and cheaters often lose weight and overall physical health and rigor. They are often borderline or outright depressed. IT'S NOT PRETTY. Nor is Limbo. It's no way for anyone to live the life that God gave them.
Starsky
Guys, I thought about this post of Starsky's long and hard. So much of it is spot on. When you are cheating you feel like you are drowning. Unfortunately the only shore you can see is OM.
Starsky, i have to add a fifth point to this if I am being completely honest.
When my husband cowed to my cheating in fear I lost respect for him.
There. I said it.
I lost respect for him as a man. Here another man was wooing me, chasing me, violating me, and my husband did nothing but shake with fear.
Sorry guys to be so forthright, but that's the God's honest truth.
And while this affair goes on MIR your wife's respect for you goes DOWN.
You may be able to make some modest gains MIR, by extending kindnesses, but don't think for a second it will save you.
The points OM scores right now are like 100 to your 1 until you face this head on.
MIR, the longer you wait, the more confident your wife gets and the more FEARFUL you will get.
Deal with this ASAP while your wife has little confidence in OM. It's just going to get worse if while you plan.
Last point :
Protect yourself first MIR. I hate to say this, but lock down a separate account and move funds there for safekeeping. Do NOT confront your wife first and then protect your assets.
Protect everything first and then confront. Catch your wife blindsided.. it will scare the pants off of her.
Confront, make it known you have protected yourself, consulted a lawyer, and are protecting your family. That shows you mean business.
Once she knows you mean business, THEN you extend the olive branch for her to end the affair and work with you.
She needs to know if she refuses the AXE is coming down fast and hard.
If you confront her and you have nothing to pressure or leverage the situation she may just go with OM.
You Do need a plan, as was said, but it should NOT take a long time.
Don't trust INTEL she's sending to OM. You have no idea what's going on in her HEAD, you only know
1 the lies she's telling you 2. the lies she's telling him
you don't know what the truth is. So don't gamble. Protect yourself and then bring down the hammer asap.
Last thing I can suggest, to put this in terms a guy can understand...
This is a poker game MIR. You are going to go ALL IN on this move.
Your wife needs to know you have cards. Your wife needs to know you are prepared to play them. Your wife needs to know you are NOT a wuss.
You need to find a happy medium between monster and mouse.
Right now MIR you read as way too soft. Your wife needs to see your serious business side here or she's just going to call you on this play and you have to see it through.
Be prepared to bring down a hammer on the affair and her activities and show her you mean it 100%. No threats, she just needs to know you CAN do it... then you inform her you won't tolerate her disrespecting yourself or your children any longer.
If she says she needs time to decide, you shut her down.
She's had more than enough time to play. Tell her your children have put up with enough of her neglect and deception.
Play this as confident as you can. She will be be scared but she won't show it. You have to let her shake for a while and NOT show any weakness.
I don't see a problem with MIR's decision to choose the best time to confront his wife about the adultery. it's not as if he is postponing it indefinitely - he wants to use the next 2 weeks to show his wife how great life can be with him; and then he can confront her about OM and tell her his boundaries, as Starsky and Eric described.
after all, he is going to be expecting her to go "cold turkey" (ok, not an "ultimatum" but "expressing boundaries" - but either way he is expecting her to stop all contact with OM) so I can understand that first he wants to show her why being with him is better - so she will know what she is losing if she continues to see OM.
after the confrontation, though, he should follow up on whatever he has told her, e.g. as Eric said:
Quote:
I will not be in an open relationship. While you have contact with HIM, I will not be part of your life.
I would then give my partner a period of time (something I would be comfortable with) in which to make a choice. During that time, I would begin the process of cutting all ties. Period - end of discussion.
I don't see a problem with MIR's decision to choose the best time to confront his wife about the adultery. it's not as if he is postponing it indefinitely - he wants to use the next 2 weeks to show his wife how great life can be with him; and then he can confront her about OM and tell her his boundaries
And how do you think his wife is going to react to his being nicey nicey for two weeks when his wife finds out he KNEW she was cheating?
She's going to see the whole two weeks as a SHAM.
Hypocritical I know, but his wife will take OFFENSE that he's been lying to HER about what HE knows.
Women don't like being PLAYED. And that is very well how this may appear to her when he drops the bomb.
When my husband confronted me I was less than apologetic. And finding out he knew for weeks and said NOTHING to me I took a LOT of offense to...
I know it's hypocritical guys, but you have to think like this woman thinks... His wife may just erase the ENTIRE two weeks when she finds out he knew she was cheating.
Don't put that past her. And if she does do that, the entire two weeks was just time for the affair to do more damage.
We teach around here to judge ACTIONS, not WORDS. If I were MIR's wife, and you delivered an "I won't share you with another man" speech to me RIGHT AFTER ROMANCING ME AND SPENDING TIME WITH ME FOR TWO WEEKS . . .
What would I believe, your SPEECH, or your ACTIONS?
I think I would think "He's afraid to lose me; he's not going anywhere."
