An Exercise For Forgiveness

[sage]

hi sage,
i read in early thread that you had the KLA tapes , and i was wondering if benifet from it , or r they the same as the books , and you mension that you r reading "light the fire " or something like that , i was wondering what is that ? and i was wondering have you ever felt that your husband might not be able to have feelings for you again in the early days after ending the affairs ,
i really get inspired when i read your thread , and i hope that i can overcome what happened , and have my normal life back with my husband,
thank you

Saloom -- Hi there. Too be sure there were many days when I felt as though h would not have feelings for me again...it's hard, but necessary, to detach yourself from their feelings and reactions and opinions but the more even-keeled you can keep yourself the better.

The KLA tapes did help me. Some of the info is a dupe of the books but some isn't. I think they helped me get to the "next level" after h and I seemed out of crisis mode. I also like tapes for a couple of reasons...I don't have a lot of time to read (but I do have an hour commute each day which is 1 tape per day!) and things do seem to sink in better for me when I hear them. I also seem to need constant reinforcement so having tapes handy helped a great deal.

There's no question, though, that methodically applying the DB principles is what got me out of the hole first...WAY before I knew what to do to make my M. better I knew what I was doing that was making it worse and I stopped doing those things (mostly ). I went looking for a current thread for you but didn't find one...why not start another one (here? in Piecing?) and we can take it step by step????

As for "light his fire" it's a book/tape by Ellen Kreidman. It's one of the tapes that I've listened to over the last 1.5 years + ... I don't recall it as being useful or not useful to tell you the truth...but I'm an information junkie (good bad or otherwise!) so it's all good in that sense....

I did find "Men are from Mars..." by John Gray to be very imformative for me...

To be blunt...I don't think I ever learned how to love someone...and I especially NEVER learned how to love and respect and admire and support a MAN...My two closest role models (mom and grandmother) hated men, my father in particular, so I grew up with the idea that protecting myself through logic and distance and criticism and .... was the best way to live. NOT SO! Living proof right here!

So...much of the work I've done over the last year has been learning how to love another...I feel blessed to have a willing partner to teach me.

Saloom....please start a thread! I would love to know more about your sitch.

Sage

[psluke]

Good Morning Sage,

Positive attitude, positives happening, things look awesome Ms. Sage!!!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Sage,

You said:

To be blunt...I don't think I ever learned how to love
someone...and I especially NEVER learned how to love
and respect and admire and support a MAN...My two
closest role models (mom and grandmother) hated men, my
father in particular, so I grew up with the idea that
protecting myself through logic and distance and
criticism and .... was the best way to live. NOT SO! Living
proof right here!


I could have written this same exact thing.

Michele has taught me how to have a healthy relationship with the people in my life!!

She rocks!

Sending you hugs for the day!

[psluke]

Hello Ms Sage,

I am not going to say I am leaving because I have said it too many times and not followed through with it.

Either way my journey is changing and I want to thank you for all the help and inspiration you have been in my life!

You, Cal, and Shiny have been with me from the beginning and the 3 of you plus lots of other wonderful people here have had a huge impact on my life over the past year.

More so than I can ever express the amount of gratitude I have for you.

I love reading how wonderfully your R is going now.

It is inspiring, you really are AWESOME!!!

[Acorn]

Hey Sage,

Wow. Remember when we met? Lol....


Anyway, I've missed most of this thread (not around the boards too much...), but something on this last page caught my eye.

Could you say more about how you've learned to love *a man* (as a romantic partner, presumably)? How do you think it is different from loving a woman as a romantic partner? Just interested in your comment and would like to hear more...

Hope I see ya sometime soon :-)

Cheers,
Acorn

[sage]

Hiya Acorn,

CONGRATS on the no smoking!!!!

Could you say more about how you've learned to love *a man* (as a romantic partner, presumably)? How do you think it is different from loving a woman as a romantic partner? Just interested in your comment and would like to hear more...

So...my comment wasn't intend to mean that men need to be loved differently from women...

It was intended to mean that I was taught that men weren't "worthy" of love...IOW...

I learned growing up that women were:
emotionally superior
stronger
more committed
more loyal
braver
more well rounded
right
etc....

And I learned that men were:
broken
waiting to take advantage of you
always after something
unable to truly give
unable to truly commit
mean
dishonest
etc.

So, when I say that I never learned how to love a man, what I really meant was...I never learned that I wasn't somehow "less" something if I did...

I put my h thru the wringer thinking and acting as though I was perfect and right and he was NOT and was just waiting to take advantage of me.



Sage

[sage]

Had a crazy day yesterday...

h called me at work yesterday and proposed a financial transaction to me that had previously been a hot topic for me (emotionally) -- money stuff goes right to the core of my need for security and all and it's been made even more confusing by the shifting sands of his being in school full time, etc.

I think I handled his suggestion well and the rest of the day passed in a blur.

I got home and we got in the car for our big date...we decided to stop at my father's first for something..on the way there we started talking about the transaction and $ in general. I was on sensory overload...I was driving and trying to talk about this emotional subject and a couple of times h did the "imaginary brake" thing and ...yikes...

NOTE to self...NO MORE complicated issue conversations in the car!!!!!

But some really good things came out of it...h said "I'm starting to feel more comfortable proposing $ things to you"....a very good disclosure and sign I think!

And he also said "I know that this topic is very emotional for you and I just want to say I know how hard you're working to stay on an even keel and not react emotionally about it. I really appreciate how hard you're working through it."

GULP.

Sage doesn't get to whine anymore that h doesn't give me credit for my hard internal work.

He gets it.

And he appreciates it.

And he tells me that he appreciates it.

Other tremendous positives...we get to dad's house and h decides to come in to say hi to everyone (often he'll just stay in the car for an errand of this type).

AND...sis just moved into a new house and h asked when we were going to see it...mostly I got alone to see my sister.

Sage

[seattlehopeful]

Some great things here Sage. Your H REALLY DOES GET IT. I can tell from just the words you have written here, I'm sure you really feel it when you are together with him. That is SO AWESOME.

I read on a prior post about you getting out of crisis mode. Can you recall the pivotal point on how you knew you were getting closer to coming out of crisis mode? What were the signs that he was considering the thought of you guys together again? Did he actually come out and say it? At anytime during that stage did you feel like he really has made up his mind and he would not change it? Looking for signs myself and don't know if I'm reaching for a falling knife.

[sage]

I read on a prior post about you getting out of crisis mode. Can you recall the pivotal point on how you knew you were getting closer to coming out of crisis mode? What were the signs that he was considering the thought of you guys together again? Did he actually come out and say it? At anytime during that stage did you feel like he really has made up his mind and he would not change it? Looking for signs myself and don't know if I'm reaching for a falling knife.

Seattle...I think the "coming out of crisis mode" was sort of evolutionary...it happened in small steps...there was the "I don't think I'll come home and find him gone" milestone then the "I don't think he's loathing our marriage" one then the "he seems marginally recommitted", etc.

My point? That it truly has been a bunch of teeny, tiny babysteps.

I guess the first real signs were when he started talking about the future again...using "we" or "us"...when he started planning or doing things around the house...when he seemed to talk about a life integrated with mine.

He never said "I've changed my mind about wanting a D".

Though over the last year and a half he has said on one occasion "I want to be married to you forever" and just the other day we saw some ducks and he asked if ducks "couple off" and I said "yes, they mate for life" and he said "that sounds like a good plan".

All good stuff.

He did, though, mention D or "being alone" a couple of times even after things felt more righted...always in context of my not having "gotten over" the a. (a la, "I don't think you're ever going to get over this we should split up."

For a long time I had the hope and dream that h would ask me to marry him again... there's so much good in my sitch that I've kind of accepted that I've got what I "need" but I'd be lying if I denied a small part of me...

Sage

[sage]

oooh...to much time on the BB this AM!!! MUST get back to work!

Another good day yesterday...managed to get thru work w/o losing my mind (+) and also made it thru class. Picked h up from the train...he seemed very happy to see me (+) as I was him! Had lots and lots of good chats/emails yesterday (+).

He called me "my love" this AM (+).

Sage