busted affair again!

[newman7977]

Another Stander,

Thanks for posting. I missed your post it was hard to see and type these things in a phone lol. Yes I know a lot of times I contradict my actions. I'm still learning this counter intuitive principles. I'm really trying to stamp this in my head, I mean it is stamped but my actions are still not in sync with it.

Yes she wanted to leave but I'm the one that suggested it out of anger from the last blow-up on the EA with the same OM.

I'll read your items to remind me and will practice what it actually say.

Please keep me in check. I'll keep journaling so you guys can guide me.

Newman

[newman7977]

Journaling~~

Another positive night. I got home tonight and W is running late from work. So I took the kids and bought dinner. Took all 3 of them with me. So whats the big deal? Well, the old me wouldn't have done this, the old me would've waited for the W to get home and make her buy dinner, yes sad to say but that was me. By the time I got home buying food W was home. No biggie for her and I realized she's seeing it and she just don't want to admit it--like she said before "a little too late". If she doesn't see it that still fine since my kids and I had a great time driving. We all ate dinner and that's that, WE WERE ALL HUNGRY

A couple of things though in the middle of getting dinner and post dinner. I texted W to see if she will eat before she gets home, she didn't reply right away so I called for dinner. But while I was phoning the order she text me, call my cell, and called the house phone. D17 answered since I was on the phone ordering food. I can hear in the background the people from her work it's almost like telling me that look I'm really at work don't you hear my coworkers, I'm not with OM? I don't know what to make of this but atleast she's making me aware that she's really at work? Maybe she's trying to win my trust again?

The second thing is that I brought up the S talk. We were suppose to start tomorrow, and she's suppose to leave. I saw in her facial expressions that she didn't really want to do it but I didn't want to say I take it back. I simply said "what do you feel about tomorrow's arrangement, do we proceed with TS?" And she just said "did you want me to come home or do I go straight to SIL?" I replied and said "well I'm thinking maybe we should put it off until we see counseling"? So we're basically answering questions with questions. So she also said "yes, I think TS is good idea but I think we need to do it correctly with counseling help." I left it at that so for now our TS is on hold.

So now we're back in the same spot, living in the same roof, but I did tell her that I don't know how would I react if this EA happen again, and that I won't be a part of this love triangle. And she assured me it won't happen again that this is a wake up call for her.

We talked briefly about our R, and I basically said so now we'll try again? Bad move Newman, I knew the answer to that, and her answer is "well it's not that I want to but, I don't hate you but I don't know if my feelings would return." And I got sucked in more, and I said "well the EA, I'm not owning up to, that was your decision. But what I'm owning up to is creating your feelings the way you felt" and she said she's really sorry for what happened." It was getting in deeper getting emotional and then that's when I decided to shut up, and I said ok and left the MB.

So it goes--

Thanks again everyone! You have no idea how this is really helping me cope with this painful part of my life. But I feel as even if our R don't work out, I will be a better man by then. I'm learning so much about myself. I normally don't spill my guts to anyone not even my friends and here I am spilling everything to save my marriage. Much respect to the WAW and LBS here in DB!

Newman

[newman7977]

Sandi like always these are great eye opener..I will re-read this over until I can until my actions get in sync.

Just have a q-- during the last 4 mos, I have mentioned to W aboutme reading a lot on the net and books. And even offered her some of the advice that she should find happiness within herself etc. At one point, I think sarcastically she mentioned what about an affair do you have a book on ending an affair? And now I know anything from me she would see as no genuine maybe I can guide my SIL on a good book to read for her, any suggestions? Maybe coming from SIL will not be too bad?

Also, the first time she cut contact with OM, she was really depressed I think kind of like being a drug addict (I read somewhere) and I think she went through withdrawals from OM. I think she is having withdrawals now any suggestions on this or just let her be?

Thanks,
Newman

[newman7977]

Hey Sandi,

I'm reading your sitch. So far you mentioned a lot of the stuff my W has also mentioned. The difference is you found a way and my w is finding her way but she doesn't know how. You can truly help me understand my W better. So feel free when you can to shine a light finding her.

Newman

[fade]

In my experience, trial separations after an affair almost always lead to a deepening of the affair, at least initially. You are reading the 5LL book, implying that you not meeting your wife's needs contributed to problems in your relationship. If you are separated and not meeting any of those needs, you must realize that she will try to rely on her affair partner to meet her emotional needs.

Also, you have already done an exposure of your wife. Since you have gone this far and contacted the OM, I would suggest you consider contacting his wife. Your wife told you that he claimed he was having marital issues. I would bet this would be news to his wife. Exposure doesnt always work in your favor, but when it does its the scorned wife that is most effective at destroying an affair. I would suggest if you are going to separate, you take this step to destroy her affair first.

[sandi2]

Just have a q-- during the last 4 mos, I have mentioned to W aboutme reading a lot on the net and books. And even offered her some of the advice that she should find happiness within herself etc. At one point, I think sarcastically she mentioned what about an affair do you have a book on ending an affair? And now I know anything from me she would see as no genuine maybe I can guide my SIL on a good book to read for her, any suggestions? Maybe coming from SIL will not be too bad?

The trap door that will catch you every time is this: you just want to try and "reason" with her. That's how men get caught in a R talk, b/c they can't give up trying to reach her sensibility. When that doesn't work, then the H wants somebody else to talk his W into staying in the M. Again, this is all very common from what we read from the posters here on the board.

Here's my advice about your SIL. Don't make any suggestions to her about what to say to your W. I know you feel desperate to get the right information into the hands of your W, but you can't be behind the curtains (so to speak) giving clues or instructions to your SIL as to what to say.

Even though your W is still in an A fog, she still knows you (and her sister) very well. She'll see through it and she'll reject it as soon as she figures out you were behind it. I don't think your W will stay with her if your SIS tries to get her to read, talk, hear, or watch anything about M. Your W will just want her sister to "listen".....not advise.

A lot depends upon timing. Nobody could reach me in the beginning of my EA. Everything my H did to make a "point" for the M.....turned my stomach. He could pass by a picture of our grandchild and make a remark about how precious she was....and I'd feel like it was his way of getting a message about the importance of family & marriage to me. Of course, I resented the heck out of it! It actually sickened me whenever he pulled a stunt like that. I knew him! I knew what he was doing! That's why suggesting books or videos, etc., is not accepted warmly by the WAW. Even if she seems to be considering ending the A, you cannot afford to try to get her to read what "you" think would be good for her. She's not ready to hear what you want.

I want to encourage you to not tell your W what all you've read. Don't tell her how hard you are working to change yourself. I know you want to do that very badly, but it is the wrong thing to do. Just remember that it will pull you back to square one every time you tell her any thing like that. How will she know what you've read? That's just it, she doesn't have to know. What you really want her to understand is that you are working hard to fix what's broken. But there is only one way that works. You have to keep your mouth closed and just "become" what you learn. You don't try to reason with her through whatever information you've received. It's hard, but it's the only way.

The WAW has a awful amount of resentment toward the LBH. Have your read Michele's article on the WAW Syndrome? Find it here on the home page and read it.

There are at least four major things your W will have to deal with, and will continue, for quite some time. Of course, one of those major things is her addiction for the EA with OM. You are very correct when you said she went through withdrawals. That is probably why they rekindled the A (if it really ever stopped)b/c it is highly addictive. Depression seems to always follow ending an A.

Also, the first time she cut contact with OM, she was really depressed I think kind of like being a drug addict (I read somewhere) and I think she went through withdrawals from OM. I think she is having withdrawals now any suggestions on this or just let her be?

IMHO, when a woman ends an A (even if she makes the decision b/c she discovers OM is a cad), she is suddenly left feeling very empty. That's a horrible experience for anyone, no matter if they are to blame or not. She doesn't have any loving feelings for her H. She just feels a huge void. It's that same void that can turn a lot of people toward another person. She will be very vulnerable. Not only will she be depressed about her life, but she feels she gave up her chance for happiness when she gave up the OM. (That's part of the fantasy.) But then, the withdrawal comes. If I had not had people on this board to coach me and tell me what was happening and what to expect, I don't know if I would have made it through my ordeal. I had never heard about the PEA chemical changes the brain experienced when having an A. If you haven't read about it, search it out on the Internet. Very interesting stuff.

She will go through the initial withdrawal and then hard withdrawal symptoms. If she has any contact with the OM it can pull her back to square one in withdrawing. That's why no contact by any means is so important.

So, she'll experience addiction withdrawal and depression. That in itself would be enough for any MR to withstand, but there's the issue she will have with resentment. Now remember, I'm just talking about her feelings. You will have plenty of your own issues, also.

Whenever I read a story from a LBH who says his WAW

[sandi2]

Sorry, hit the submit button too soon.

Whenever I hear from a LBH that his WAW has ended her A and everything seems to be good after just three or four weeks.....I have a lot of doubts. Again, this is JMHO, but I don't think most women can go from an unhappy MR into an EA/PA and then jump right back into being that loving wife again in just a few weeks. I believe she has to work through her own issues, plus her and the H working on the M together before she can be the W she used to be.

She has a ton of resentment toward her H. Now, I referred to "timing" in my last post.....that is when they need to open up and talk (maybe with a MC helping them) so that the problems can be resolved and the resentments healed. Otherwise, it's going to take a long time.....and hard work, for her to be able to overcome it.

The fourth major issue is forgiveness. Yes, of course you have to be able to forgive her for the A, but so does she. I'm talking about her forgiving herself. It's the hardest thing I've ever experienced! One thing that will prevent her from forgiving herself is hanging onto resentments from the past. Not that one thing justifies the other in these cases, it's just the way it works.

It's been five years since I ended my EA. It seems a life time ago. The hardest part for me? Forgiving myself. Even now, as I type this, the tears are stinging my eyes. Sometimes the linea between guilt...forgiving...and regretting runs together and I'm not sure which is which. You will never know how much I regret what I did to myself, my M, my H, and my family! I have to live with that for the rest of my life. My H may have failed at a lot of things, but I alone carry the label of "cheater" in my M.

Anyway, that will be four of the main things your W will face in herself. It took me time to reach the place I was willing "to be willing" to put forth any effort. It took all my energy just to end the EA and stay in my house with my H. I didn't have any desire to stay, I was just doing "the right thing". Doing the right thing doesn't automatically give you the fuel you need to operate. The depression just about did me in! I asked my H to go with me to MC and he would not do it. He would not talk to anyone, but yet he wanted me to put forth 100% effort. (His words, exactly.) He had no idea what that did to me. More resentment! More depression!

So, without any professional help, (and I didn't feel like my H was willing to help b/c he said he had done nothing wrong), it took me quite a while to get to the place of putting forth any actual "effort" other than just being there. If your W asks you to go with her to therapy or MC, then please agree to do whatever it takes to work through it. Don't let stubbornness or pride get in the way of healing the M.

Be very, very patient at waiting for her to come around. You have your hell to get through, and she has her own to get through. Then there's that part you have to go through together. If she sees you being there to listen to her, and looking intently into her eyes when she's talking to you, that will mean so much! I can't tell you how far that one act will carry you. One of the first things that a H does to hurt the MR is when his W talks and he tunes her out. That is very insulting and painful to her. So, listen carefully to her, no matter how uninteresting it may be to you. DO NOT TRY TO TELL HER HOW TO FIX IT. Unless she asks you what to do, don't tell her. Most women just need to share their feelings. The man (Mr. Fixer) thinks he's suppose to solve her problems, but that just leaves her feeling frustrated. If she wants his help, she'll ask him.

Don't stop working on your improvements! Sure she needs to make changes, too, but if you get into finger pointing, the M will be back into serious danger zones before it has a chance to heal. She has to see that you weren't making changes just to get her back, and then stopped. She wants you to stay like that for now on. If you slack up, you'll be back here again. So be ready to be the one who steps up every day and shows her that you are the leader in the R.

Be sensitive to her feelings. You can tell if your W is down, right? Can you tell if she's had a bad day without her telling you? Okay, can you tell when she's lonely from when she wants to be alone? Do you know when you should play and kid around with her from when you know not to go there with her? Can you tell when she just wants to be held in your arms and be assured everything's going to be alright, but she doesn't want to have sex? If you don't know, then you are probably like the majority of the male population! But, you can always try to learn.

Just as you can't afford to apply any pressure now, you can't afford to do it months from now. Can you handle it? Can you be the man and have the attitude that "Honey, I love you and if you get too tired to walk, I'll carry you, but we are going to make it through this journey." That's the attitude you have to take, b/c if you start letting your male ego get in the way of the healing process....you'll have a bad time of it. You may find yourself feeling that you're the only one doing the "work" in the R. But if she's depressed and experiencing all that stuff I just talked about, then she won't have the drive like you do. It's one thing to want something and go after it with gusto, but quite another when you're just trying to do the right thing and your hearts not all the way in right now. (Most LBH's don't want to hear that, but I'm telling you the truth!)

Right now, you have the energy and desire to start pumping out whatever it takes to get her to agree to stay M. But it's that day-to-day grit that gets old and tries the patients of your soul. That's when you have to remind yourself that love is driving you....not ego. Again, I ask you, are you the man?

Your M can not only survive this, but it can be happy again. She can desire you again, and she can have the "want-to" back in the R again.

[RoRoinMD]

Newman, please read sandi's post, and then read it again if you have to. I think she's given you some great advice. We're all here to support you!

Sandi, your last two posts were golden! I needed to read what you posted today...I really did. Been feeling like I'm DBing in vain lately. THANK YOU!

[newman7977]

Fade thanks for your input definitely take it to consideration. Yes the separation is on hold for now. I'm glad we did as seem like the consensus point out to not a good idea for now.

I just found out not everyone knows from her family just SIL and her husband. But yes that also crossed my mind about telling OM's wife, I think if I would've have the contact number of OMs W that time I blew a gasket I probably would've called her.

[newman7977]

RoRo, I agree will re-read actually I don't think I will get tired of reading Sandi's post it really hits home for me. Thanks for your support.

Sandi, bless your heart and your family. Your H is a lucky man to have you. You have no idea how much help you have been giving me and my family regardless of what happen thanks! I dont know you and you don't know me an yet you are helping not only me but others who read your post. Keep it up, you're making a big difference.

I will re-read your post, I'm on my cell right now at work and it's hard to type LOL. When I get home I'll post.

Newman