It's like a little kid doing stuff so Mommy will be proud. He basically said that last night.
Maybe I'm missing something.
okay - i think i see it a bit differently now after you described that.
where the hell is KD when we need him - I think he would have picked up on this right away
I'll give it a shot, and warning - i am just throwing this out there - and it's the amateur version compared to what KD would write. maybe he'll chime in later
I think it's the double bind at play here
He puts you in this position of being mommy by doing all this stuff, and which grown man wants to feel like that in his romantic relationship, right?
but your allowing him to let him play this, is what allows him to keep you both in the double bind. and then he gets to think - why would i want to be with RoRo if she feels like mom. of course i love mom, and so i can tell RoRo that i love her, but I don't have to stay because an adult man does NOT stay with his mom. (one of the significant symptoms of being in a double bind is a feeling of helplessness, that you can't even see what is really going on in the dynamics)
Your first question will be - how do I allow it?
well, that's the problem with the double bind, it's really difficult to see your own role in how you keep it there.
As KD explained to me, the only way out of a double bind is to step right out of it.
Find the 180 here - for example - he's cooking dinner tonight already? call a friend and go out to dinner.
Use ways to keep yourself out of the double bind. yes you may hurt his feelings and he'll play that card big time, especially now after your most recent talk - he has GOT to keep you in this position in order to keep on leaving. he'll probably throw the book at you for being so unappreciative after all he did to cook dinner. you can just say gently that you had no idea he was doing it for you, how sweet of him. maybe YOU could cook him dinner tomorrow night?
take that role back - where he's not doing stuff only for you, but that it becomes equal and you do it equally for each other.
and then lead - like KD said to me - bring out the good stuff in him - and believe me that's not him doing the laundry! lead him towards doing the things that he is genuinely good at as an independent person. find out what his strengths are and guide him in that direction and validate every little thing he does in that direction. and stop validating anything he does which makes him feel as if he's pleasing mommy.
if he had big complaints about the things YOU didn't let him do - allow him to do those and nudge him in that direction. as an eg. - the one i'm focusing now on with my h: he was really bitter that i controlled the parenting. so now, i've completely stepped back and insist that he takes over and leads the way. he's reluctant when it comes up each time, but after, i can see he is much more confident about doing it
this is a different perspective - and when KD presented it to me a while ago, it was really difficult for me to grasp. it's taken me a while, but now i can apply it and recognize it much more easily
hope this helps zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
just to make it more clear - for a starting point - start noticing which are the things he does that make him feel like he is "pleasing mommy". then find the 180 there - the 180 is not a direct reproach against him or to make him feel bad - you have to find a way to do it where it is neutral and more of your stepping away from it, if that makes sense.
if you have been showing a lot of appreciation for those things that he does in an effort to validate him - show it in another way - do it yourself, first. then you take away that option in a neutral way and make the space to lead him towards more healthy actions for himself
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Maybe I didn't write it quite right. He didn't say he was trying to please Mommy. He said he would sit and think of ways to make me happy and nothing ever worked. I think I associated that with ME trying to please my own mother. And that's one of the things that came up last night.
I feel like a failure for not being able to fix this. Which brings up feelings of never being able to do anything right according to my mother. Like I said last night was a long night.
I do think there may be some of what you're saying going on. I'll have read your post again and think about it some more.
In general, what types of things will make your H feel that he's done well? Do certain words do it? Is he looking for actions? What about in work situations? What makes him feel good about himself?
My observation about men in general would be that they need to be praised, even for the littlest things (even if they don't admit it).
My H used to say that he felt that he couldn't make me happy. For me, I think it had a lot to do with my facial expression, and also not acknowledging and thanking him for the "acts of service" that he apparently did to make me happy (which also happens to be my 2nd LL).
In general, what types of things will make your H feel that he's done well? Do certain words do it? Is he looking for actions? What about in work situations? What makes him feel good about himself?
My observation about men in general would be that they need to be praised, even for the littlest things (even if they don't admit it).
My H used to say that he felt that he couldn't make me happy. For me, I think it had a lot to do with my facial expression, and also not acknowledging and thanking him for the "acts of service" that he apparently did to make me happy (which also happens to be my 2nd LL).
I think words of affirmation are #1 on his list. He used to love getting cards and letters from me. I "think" he feels good when people notice his efforts and tell him so.
That last paragraph could have been said by my H word for word. But he's in so much "pain" that I think any words of affirmation now are just scratching the surface.
I stayed mostly to myself today. Fought several urges to go to H to get comfort in his arms. H$LL, I'm still fighting that feeling. I know he would try to comfort me, just like he tried to do last night when I was a hysterical mess. He hasn't seen me like that very often. Probably never. Not sure I like being so vulnerable in front of him right now.
Spent a lot of time today thinking...about things my H said last night, about how much pain we are both in, about things that came up for me last night, and about everything you guys wrote today. I really don't know what my next steps should be. Guess I just need to get back to the basics and just put one foot in front of the other.
He said he would sit and think of ways to make me happy and nothing ever worked
RoRo - that was me in a nutshell too. my h fell over himself trying to do everything that i wanted - and he never got back from me what HE needed.
but what i see now is that he pleased me at the expense of himself - until he was so used up he couldn't do it any longer. his most repeated words since BD have been "i have to take care of myself, i spent too long taking care of you"
i think it's still the double bind playing on some level. so h is pleasing you at the expense of taking care of himself - and he doesn't get any satisfaction from it no matter how pleased you are, because it's not fulfilling something in him that he really needs - and that something is him growing in self awareness and dealing with his own issues that make him unhappy.
he thinks that you are the cause of his unhappiness because he can't do enough to please you, but it's actually just a projection of not being able to be happy himself.
my h would do everything i asked for and more - but no matter how profusely i said thanks to him he never felt that i appreciated it. NOW i understand why - i didn't show him appreciation in HIS love language - i did it in mine.
so i think doing the 180's applies here still. and you need to find the LL that he can hear your appreciation in. maybe you have to try each of the 5 out one at a time for a few weeks each to see if any of them makes the difference.
either way - you need to change the dynamic between you two over all the things he does for you
but more importantly than that:
I feel like a failure for not being able to fix this. Which brings up feelings of never being able to do anything right according to my mother
this is more disturbing to me - are you still in fixer mode? how much do you believe that you have truly resolved your own inner issues, from a long time ago?
the dynamics and the patterns between the 2 of you cannot truly change until one person takes the real steps. if you have unresolved issues - you need to address them, because it will totally change your emotional mindset, and then you can change the dynamics between the 2 of you. and once you change your energy, the pattern has to shift
it's hard to think about so much especially when you are so tired. maybe taking a coupel of days off to mull over it and let it go through you will help a lot.
hope you feel a lot better soon
(((((( ))))))) zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
when we need him - I think he would have picked up on this right away