Can Turtles climb?

[bustingout]

hi zig how are you???? (((( ))))

[zig]

Hi everyone - thanks for al the wonderful replies.

I was so knackered yesterday. by the end of the second day of working all day on the machines I was exhausted. I have got to start getting some more sleep!!

I was really surprised at all the responses after my post. It's funny - here I was thinking that all I was doing was to try not to spin out for my own sanity, and there you all were seeing how that was detachment. and then i was like - what, that's detachment - oh okay, that's all I have to do?

well, i'm not all that detached - still finding myself thinking about him a bit and where he's at, it's like the brain is wired to go there! but spent the whole day immediately saying an affirmation and forcing my focus onto something else - maybe that's why i was so tired!!

ng - thanks - i am reading your posts here and to others - and I love what you are writing about - it is helping me so much to move forward myself. I really feel that it is with everyone's help here that I can achieve any progress for myself - and the way you have been handling your pain recently is phenomenal. thank-you (((((((( ))))))))

vero - just to clarify - that was Brit's insight for sure - and one that it took me a few weeks to assimilate and actually use. i'm glad it helped you out. i think it's wonderful how everyone here manages to help each other find their way

Brit - yo, girl!! you calling me innocent?

yeah, i probably am!!

so how o you handle that whole thing with you h - about approval etc? just ignore it entirely? how do you respond when he says ow great it is that he left and look how happy you are? have you let him know directly that you were not happy with what was going on?

thanks for the encouragement - and your words always help me so much - it's like you are blazing the trail for the picnic sisters

ces - thanks for stopping by. happy to say that s and i had a wonderful time last night again - making a sheep!! don't ask - suffice to say that i jabbed my fingers so incessantly through the whole process, and let out an insanely funny squak every time (not intentional, apparently i squak when i jab my fingers repeatedly) which made s and i break into peals of laughter. fingers were fine and s was happy happy. made me feel warm, because he goes back to h today and i know i did a great job connecting with him this week. hope you are going to have a briliant day. have to come over and reply to your post later

thanks stubborn - hope i can sustain the ability to do this,

labug, ng, busting - i agree with al you write.

it is definitely an opportunity for me to grow here. i did have a pretty strong urge to call him and say things. but it was interesting for me to just stay stepped back and say - right, zig, you want to "fix" this , but guess what - you don't get to!! period

i can't keep going forward being right in my sitch. i've thought about it alot, these past few days, and a lot of my struggles with h over the years have been about both of us trying to be right.. for now, i am actually finding alot of peace in just saying- it's ok, i don't have to be right here. after all, what if HE is right? and is there anything wrong with him being right for a change?

figure-it-out - hi and thanks for your lovely post - it really touched me. I had no idea that there was anyone out there silently reading :), so your words came as a real surprise, and they warmed me greatly - I hope that things are better for you personally - i read your tag line. i will go find your thread - is it in a different forum?

and sweet busting - thank you - i love your hugs and your checking in on me. i am trying not to post on my thread during the day - odd i know!! how are you now today? well on the blanket? hugging you there, sweet girl

[Brit45]

so how o you handle that whole thing with you h - about approval etc? just ignore it entirely? how do you respond when he says ow great it is that he left and look how happy you are? have you let him know directly that you were not happy with what was going on?

Well he didn't give me a chance too. Apparently he was so scared after I flipped out at him moving in with her in May that he never talk about his relationship/my life etc and wanted me to be happy and hated knowing I wanted him back. Later he would say things like you look happy or you look great and like a little puppy dog I would beam and say I am happy look how happy I am. cringe.

The only times I've gotten to really put this is place is after I decided that not only was he just an option, but then that he wasn't an option I wanted. I was tired of the power I was handing over to him, ready to meet men who wanted to be with me etc. So when he said point blank "are you okay with all this?" I told him point blank "my opinion doesn't count. It's if you're okay with this. I'm okay with my decisions because I chose a long time ago to work on our relationship, to take time to look at myself, etc and you didn't. So if you're okay great. I'm okay with my choices and all of your decisions are just that yours. I want you to be happy and I want what's best for you, but I don't get to choose what's best for you. Your choices are your choices" The second time was when we were discussing filing for the Big D and I said my thoughts and he said don't be my mum be my friend and I said I'm so much of your friend that I want you to have a good relationship.

So I think you and I are different places. Because I'm okay that he and I never have a R again. And I genuinely want him to have a M that lasts longer than ours did because that's what I also want for myself. So it wasn't a case of me saying I'm not okay with what's happening right now. His R, the speed, the timing, etc isn't something I would have chosen for myself or for him but it's really none of my business. I'm not actively wanting him back and even if I did my opinions on his new R don't need to be shared.

Perhaps a DB coach could advise you? I don't know.

[zig]

thanks brit for your insight on this. an di suppose you are right there is a difference between our ditches as you printout. hope some others have something to say about it

journaling -

had a bit of a "strange interaction" with h this afternoon.

he called earlier to "let me know" that he and s were also going to be at the free outdoor concert. i just said great casually. then he started explaining about this and that - talking to the other mom's about meeting and it suddenly started pouring hard and he had to get off the phone in a hurry and said he would call me back

he just did - and wanted me to bring long pants and jacket for s and shoes to the concert. which was a fine request as the temp has dropped seriously and its actually chilly (Yippee!!). he offered to bring a chair for me - but acted really odd, refusing to call it a camping chair but kept describing it as the one that comes in a long sack. wtf? he's the one who taught me what that chair is called!!

then he tells me that he did go and get s a violin and i said thanks and i really appreciate it. then he blurts out that he bought it - and an explanation of how it was cheaper in the long run. i agreed with him that he made a wise choice and thanked him again.

then just before we were getting off the phone i said just a minute h, there's something i'd like to say. we need to discuss for the future how we are going to go about sharing costs for s. for e.g.. if there's a big cost like a violin, does one pay for it or both expected to share it (i had already asked earlier what money he had paid it with and he said he put it on the credit card). he started to get defensive explaining again that he knew it was the cheaper way to go, and that when they were there he "didn't feel like calling me"

i stayed really really mild - almost to the point of indifference - and just replied - oh that's not what i meant - i was thinking that for me if i expect to share the cost of the rental and know it's $15/mo for me, it would be extremely difficult for me to come up with $175 because you decided to go buy it.

so then he said yeah yeah i guess we should figure that out and then i got off the phone.

i didn't have a problem with him deciding to buy it at all - but i will have a problem later if he makes decisions like that that affect my budget planning which is extremely tight right now.

of course when i've had some time to think about this, i realize that i'm not sure if he's thinking straight financially.between our living costs and his unpaid cc bills, there's not enough to cover the costs - and that does not include me counting s's school fees!!

maybe it's time for me to write it all down and give it to him - maybe seeing it on paper will be easier for him.

any advice?

[bustingout]

zig not able to give advice on this but am here for you. am here for support and comfort. but maybe just leave these things for awhile....about sharing costs...it will come with time....i don't know....but don't get worried about things that are not here yet...


i love you zig so much and i really want to sit on the blanket with you. I heard some incredible news about OW i need to share with you!

i will swim until then....i am again looking for serenity...

((( ))))

[zig]

oh i was so not worried busting - it was more a detached observing, you know..

news of ow? now you have me very curious

hope i'll see you post - i'm being picked up by my friend in the next half hour or so and will be gone for a bit

meanwhile - serenity is almost there with you - give her another minute - remember the roller skates were still here..

turn your back to that stupid castle and just come be with us, dear sweet girl - we are already waiting for you

love you back
zig

[NLW]

Hey Zig, Good to hear you're in such a detached space about the money issues.
You're right (!) it needs to be sorted.

But just a word of warning based on my experience.

My H goes ballistic about these matters; seeing it as me exerting more of the same control that he is running from.

It triggers complete irrationality in him (well, that's my perspective).

So, just be prepared for things to go south quickly if he's anything like my H (a classic MLCer).

cheers,
NLW

[bustingout]

i'm off to hear Buckwheat Zydecko - excited...

How was it??????


(((( ))))

[zig]

It was wonderful - what a great band. Really lifted me up.

So funny - i wrote this long post describing everything that happened, and then couldn't submit. instead i decided to just write a few sentences sort of like "observations" - the details are starting to feel less and less relevant...

what i observed last night -

I'm pretty okay in my world, and completely accepting of it
H is very agonized and nervous around me
I can sit on the blanket, and h can sit right next to me, and it's okay
s is opening up slowly like a flower and I am in awe of how my changes are having such a direct effect on him
The more I let go of things that I think I want, the more they come to me in surprising ways

Since i wrote that post about giving up - I've had a bit more insight into where I really am. for 3 days i was really on myself - you are done zig, you are done. and then yesterday - it came to me - giving up is not the same as being done. It's okay to give up and just BE - but it's also okay to acknowledge that I am not done. There's a huge difference there.

what there is now, is a new level of peace -or should i say the first level of real peace - I haven't felt this yet - and possibly haven't for a long long time.

I'm finding myself letting go of all the subtle tiny things that i have been clinging to in order to "fool" myself into feeling secure and safe. and i know that i have let go of so many fears and it's because of that that i am able now to not be so fearful to stay in the moment so much more.

So i am excited and eager to see what unfolds for me in the next few weeks...

how are you busting ? well, today i hope

(((((((( ))))))))
zig

[zig]

well -got some new "info" a bit ago -that i'm still trying to digest.

wife of h's best friend and i talked and caught up on the events of last weekend. they are the ones who hang out with h and ow, when she comes to town - as they did last saturday (i think i had posted that she had been groaning that h had asked them to come camp with him and ow in his back yard last fri and how she didn't want to go because she didn't want to hang out with ow and was afraid that when she had too much to drink she might mouth off!)

well they did hang out all evening with h and ow, but didn't camp w/ them. and she said that it was really really odd.

according to her h, ow acted really bitchy all evening, sulked in the corner while h and him hung out and pal'd around. h ignored ow a lot. and here's the most surprising info for me - she said that h brought up my name and talked about me in the most complimentary way not once or twice, but like 10 or 15 times!! right in front of ow and everyone else!! it was final friday so they went to several places and 2 parties...

one of the things he really went on about was when the discussion of final fridays came up (that was when i had my shawl sale) and instead of talking about what a fun event it was in general, h only talked about what an incredible show i had had and what amazing work i'd done!!

I asked what ow did in reaction - she said she just quietly turned her head away each time and sulked some more!!

friend said that she spent most of the evening observing them and chuckling to herself that things were not going so well!!

so where does that leave me with this info?

actually exactly where i was when i wrote my last post - i still have to move forward, still focus on myself and still realize that h chooses to be where he is and i can choose to sit with my back to the castle. it's just info that there's a lot of pressure there, and i could jump on it like flies on honey and get my hopes up, but i think i have done that too many times.

if anything the only insight this info has provided me is that maybe i can understand a little more what the look of agony on his face was about last night.

I'm where I am, and he is where he is. and that's all there is to it really.

friend asked me why do you think ow is being so messed up - and i thought to myself, well isn't it obvious? it didn't seem so obvious to her. ow is just another human being and she has feelings and emotions too, and i'm sure she's not all that stupid. something isn't sitting right with her about all this and of course she's going to react to it in some way . I find myself feeling bad for her - no, don't get me wrong, i'm not giving her all my sympathy - but just sad that she possibly finds herself in a place that is not good for her, and has to face the decisions she made along the way.

it's their thing to work out... not mine, and i am good where i am.

since yesterday i've had this image in my head- that analogy of two people as trees growing alongside each other, and when they are together, the roots get so entangled that you can't tell which roots are from which tree? well yesterday i suddenly saw how i had finally entangled the biggest fattest most far-reaching roots from h's roots, and that me, my tree, is standing independently on it;s own - and I can FEEL where my roots extend out to and my roots are supporting ME

...clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am.....

off to get some knitting done...

zig