I really like your text and will keep that one in the back of my mind b/c thats really one of the largest drivers of our problems.
I hope it helps. The apologies have really helped immensely. I was hesitant to do them at first, but they really hit the mark for my W. My W told me the other night that the blanket "sorry" was really meaningless for her, because she didn't really feel like I was. There were no specifics tied to it, and she thought it was easy to say it without truly meaning it.
We're planning to go to a retrov CORE session in a couple of weeks about the languages of apology (kinda like the 5 LL) and I am really looking forward to that. I'm hoping we not only learn, but can use it as a springboard to move past some of this stuff.
Its good that she has told you the blanket sorry did nothing....knowledge is the key. I really WANT to make my wife happy, but we've done what most others do in life and that is never to ASK one another what makes them happy but assume we know and do that. Its unfortunate, but I now recognize it and if we rebuild our relationship I want her to tell me what her LL are. Again I thought I knew but obviously I was wrong.
I read an interesting comment once....I really can't remember if it was here or elsewhere and it was talking about the golden rule....treat others the way you want to be treated etc....but truthfully you should be treating others the way THEY want to be treated, not necessarily the way you would want to be treated. Thats where part of my failure lies, but again, now I recognize it.
treat others the way you want to be treated etc....but truthfully you should be treating others the way THEY want to be treated, not necessarily the way you would want to be treated. Thats where part of my failure lies, but again, now I recognize it.
Yeah, I think you're dead on. I read something once like "real love is recognizing how your spouse defines real love, and giving it to them" and that really struck a cord with me.
I think thats a great definition BD, obviously I personally had alot of issues that im working out each and every day and one of the biggest was not really knowing what made her happy. I constantly 'did' things wether it was notes, calls, flowers etc. But I missed out on her LL...if I were to guess i'd say it was acts of service and undivided attention....thats what i've gathered from things she told her dad after we seperated.
But even though I think those are what she needs, I still have to ASK her what makes her happiest when the time comes. I dont think I realized until all of this happened that i've never done that.
But even though I think those are what she needs, I still have to ASK her what makes her happiest when the time comes. I dont think I realized until all of this happened that i've never done that.
Yeah, don't beat yourself up too much on this. I've known my W most of my life (27 years now I think) and I didn't know what her LL was. Yeah, I had an idea, but still, talk about feeling stupid.
Some ups and downs over the last week. I went to have a beer with my B a few days ago and met up with a buddy I hadn't seen in a while. A series of poor decisions got me home with way to much to drink, and a bit of a mouth.
W was reasonably upset, and I apologized for the words I had said (which may have come from a reasonable place, but came out in a unreasonable way). She said the next day she was unsure what to do. I realize I took a lot of good work and flushed it in one night of drinking (sorry Mach1).
A couple days in, it seemed to be getting better, but tonight, W mentioned to S17 that she had a friend she went to HS with that had a S that enlisted, and died within a few months. She basically said, the kid was selfish and stupid, and I don't want you to do that.
When we got back to our room, I said that I thought her reasoning was unfair. While it may have been selfish and stupid, it could have been patriotic and unselfish. I didn't feel like we should portray military service as a dumb thing, and look down on those that serve. W blew up at me telling me she didn't care what my opinion was, that she had listened to it for too long, and that she just wanted to watch tv in peace.
She ended up going to the spare bedroom, saying "good night" and I said something in finish like "fine, I'm done with that kind of behavior."
I said at one point, regardless where we go, you're going to have to come to terms with the kids getting my opinion. She said, "that's fine, but I don't want to be lectured to about it. I said I didn't think I was lecturing, just trying to explain my point of view, but she didn't care.
When I went to check on the kids, W was asleep and I asked S17 for a private word. I explained to him W's point of view and mine, and he was ok with it. We agreed on not promoting military service in our family, but only disagreed on how to portray those that do. S17 was good with it, and I don't really think we have to worry about any of our children going that route. The only difference I see is that if they do, I support them, and W doesn't.
Kind of a crappy end to the weekend. I thought we were moving in the right direction, but honestly, I am getting tired of dealing with the crap. I want my M to work, but it's getting old me being the only one thinking that. I'm scared that I think it may be easier to move on than fix this.
I thought we were moving in the right direction, but honestly, I am getting tired of dealing with the crap. I want my M to work, but it's getting old me being the only one thinking that. I'm scared that I think it may be easier to move on than fix this.
I hate that I even wrote that. Yeah, I do get tired...I wish it were different, but I have to own up to the backslide I had last week. That took all the trust that was building and trashed it. I've got to start building it again...one day at a time.
The argument last night was just stupid, and I should have just let it go. I didn't because I thought it was something that could shape our children's thoughts, and that concerned me, but W's not in a place to listen to my point of view on anything right now and I should have realized that.
Had about an hour talk with W last night, which was pretty productive. She basically told me she was starting to come around until I acted like an idiot the other night, and it put her back at square one. No surprise there, but I am surprised she told me so plainly. We also discussed the argument the night before, and she basically said we agreed with me, but didn't really want to talk about it at the time. She also told me, and this is the big one, that I have done more nurturing to our marriage in the last month with the apologies than I had in the 15 years prior. Talk about the apologies having a big impact! She said it wasn't the apology as much as it was the fact that I was letting my walls down and letting her in.
W's b-day today. I started with breakfast in bed and for this evening, I planned a scavenger hunt around the house with a gift and a choice of vacation (not sure she'll take me up on it, but what the heck). Looking forward to the hunt....I've done this a couple of times over the course of our marriage, with the first one being on our 1st anniversary. The prize then was a cruise, so hopefully today brings back some good memories.
The final clue (which refers to a surprise renewal of our vows in Hawaii on our 5th anniversary):
A secret plan, With intent to wed Ended not in a church But on a beach instead
We have a picture on our mantel of us on that beach. Behind the picture will be the prize. Hoping she enjoys her day and she's reminded of some of the good times we've had along the way.
W came home an hour late, didn't answer my call, nor return my text. I struggled with that, as I had made dinner reservations for the whole family, and that is an old behavior of hers. When she did get home, she had been drinking, another old issue. She said she grabbed a beer on her way home, but I honestly just assumed someone took her out for her bday. Either way, I wasn't thrilled. When I asked her about drinking on her way home (which is weird to me), she said "in case you didn't know, I'm miserable." Awesome start to the evening!
Anyway, we had a quick talk, I told her I was a little panic'd because of the dinner reservation, she was pretty patient really, and we both agreed to start fresh a few mins later.
Scavenger hunt was a huge success. W got the kids involved and it was great fun for everyone. In the prize card, I wrote:
A ring for today, A vacation for tomorrow Let's turn a new page And leave behind the sorrow
I didn't realize how strong those words would be when she read them aloud, but everyone started crying, me included. She hugged and kissed me and told me thanks and then we piled in the car for dinner. Dinner was great...she held my hand for much of it.
Unfortunately, on the way to dinner she was texting and at dinner she again checked her phone. I noticed OM's name and asked about it, and she showed me the email. I said, that wasn't what I saw, and she showed me her text. He had left her a VM about losing money in the market and she text him about how she just finished a great scavenger hunt and was going to dinner with the family. WTF?!
I made a decision right then to just leave it alone and have a nice evening, but when I woke up early, I struggled with the whole concept. I told her very clearly I would not be in a M where OM was involved, and yet, the relationship continues.
We both were up at 4am for some reason. I dressed and left the room and she came and asked me to come back to bed. We talked for the next couple of hours and I basically told her I was struggling with whether or not I should continue to fight for our M. The discussion wasn't bad, but it wasn't really helpful either, at least not to me. A couple of times she was explaining how she felt and I asked some deeper questions (i.e. W: I don't know how to let it go and still "win" and I asked "How do you define winning?"), and she told me how different I was now.
She said she was struggling with who she was versus who she wanted to be. This is similar to my own journey so I told her how I had approached things.
We also talked a little about forgiveness. I told her I thought she should forgive herself (she continually says how she's upset she didn't stand up for the M she wanted sooner) and she basically said that wasn't the problem. I asked if she refused to forgive me because it meant losing track of "the score" and that seemed to hit a nerve.
Had my first session with my new DB coach today and it went awesome! I was really worried about this issue with the OM and how I should proceed, but I got some good advice today and feel so much better. I also got confirmation that a lot of my thoughts and actions are on the right track, so keep doing what works!
