I did apologize for my behavior the other night, and also threw out a blanket apology for the beginning of our marriage. I know this has been a big issue for her, and I truly am sorry about it, so why not. I don't plan on apologizing for the rest of my life, but I do think I can give a little here. I had decided not to continue apologizing because of other things I've read so when something's not working, why not try something else.
What I've decided to do (and we'll see how W responds) is to think of what I am really sorry for, specifically, and tell her one of those things each day for a while. I am not interested in taking the blame for all of our problems, and I would like her to own up to her mistakes as well, but I have no problem owning my part of it. I figure this might go on 10 days or so. After that, I think I'll try to have a sit down and not just apologize, but ask for her forgiveness, and see if that may help put this behind us.
I went and played some golf yesterday and W was watching a movie with the kids when I got home. I was really happy she chose to spend some time with them. She seems to be around a lot more. She also slept in the same bed with me, and moved up against me multiple times, so that's a positive too.
Busy finish to last week as well as the weekend....B was successfully married off and I think everything went great. Had a great time with W and kids, and it was pretty awesome to see all the family.
We took S13 & D11 to our church's youth kickoff last night and I took the kids around while W worked on a volunteer project. I talked to the pastor about doing some volunteering, one of the things I have been thinking about for some time. This is one of the things I think W is really happy about.
No change on the M front with me....W is still staying here, sleeping in same bed, ML regularly. No discussion of moving out or R. Touching seems to be increasing....W asking me to hold her hand or cuddling with me, so that's good. W is around a lot more now than in the last year, so again, that's positive.
For me, I am trying to stay upbeat and happy, enjoying time with W without applying pressure or guidelines/requirements, and trying to get out and do a few things for myself. We missed retrov Sat due to the wedding, but got an email today about a couple of opportunities to participate in the coming weeks. I may mention them to the W this week at some point if I can do it without appearing to apply pressure.
We're kind of in a happy limbo at the moment. I would love to have some R talk, to start dialoguing again, to "fix it!" But I realize my W's timetable is not the same as mine, and when she's ready, she'll let me know. And really, a happy limbo ain't all that bad
Little bit of a hiccup last night. W did not communicate with me all evening, bailed on plans with kids. I did well to not attack her, but I was clearly irritated with the lack of communication. I'm trying to give her space but I really struggle with her rolling in at 9pm without even taking 5 seconds to text me what's up. The kids were upset and I eventually got upset. Fear started creeping in and I really got upset with the idea of it going forward like this....I can't go back to that.
On the bright side, she hadn't been drinking so my worst fears weren't realized....and this morning, she apologized and explained the evening to me. I said that I was trying to give her space, but I expected some communication, and she agreed, so again, I guess that's positive.
This kind of stuff is difficult because we really haven't defined where we are or what the boundaries/expectations are. So happy limbo wasn't so happy last night I guess.
I sent another apology text to W this morning for something specific 16 years ago. She said I was so nice for sending her these little notes and it made her smile. I'm a little confused by the response to be honest....I thought I might get a "thank you" but maybe this is really something she needs to heal.
There's a retrov meeting coming up in a few weeks on the Languages of Apology....I went ahead and forwarded it to W, let her know I was going, and asked her if she'd like to come along. Clearly, I need some more understanding on this topic, especially with regards to my W's Languages.
No, it's a good point. I actually stopped drinking for about 60 days at the beginning of the year because 1) I felt I was using it to cope and 2) my anger and frustration bubbled to the surface after a couple. I don't think either of those is true today, but I do know that after a few it's 10X harder to be patient, or act upbeat and happy in the face of OM discussions, or steer the conversation away from negativity. I still think I'm successful a lot of the times, but 1 bad night can't throw us off the edge of the cliff right now, so it's probably not a bad thing to cut out until we're on solid ground.
And honestly, no booze may help me get that last little bit of fat off my belly in the next few months, so it's a win win
One other thing I wanted to mention here that I'm unsure of. W is constantly complaining about my behavior in the first 5-10 years of our marriage and eventually I took a stand and said "I'm done apologizing for the same thing over and over." During our retrov weekend a woman said that her husband apologized 1000 times, and she didn't really hear it the first 999. My W reminded me of that this morning. I'm really starting to feel like she may need to hear it repeatedly for it to sink in, but I'm afraid it's a slippery slope. I really don't have a problem giving her the repeated apology for mistakes long past, but I don't want it to backfire on me. She hasn't really accepted responsibility for her part in our problems, and hasn't really even apologized for her relationship with OM.
Breakdown: Wanted to chime in here on two points....the first is the drinking....I never really thought mine was a problem either, but decided I would quit for a few reasons...it was unneccesary, it would help me drop a few and maybe most importantly it can lead to moodiness....not just at the time when your drinking but in general it can make you more moody and thats a problem for me anyway so I gave it up.
As for the apologizing thing....I feel the same way that I can't continue to apologize for the same things over and over, its in the past we have to move one. With that being said i've never heard anything like the 999 times thing and its somewhat eye opening to me. My advice is this, and its for me and for you....when you apologize make it specific...not a general im sorry for not treating you the way you should have been treated....but as much as you can remember apologize for the specific events. And secondly write it down...on paper or in an email and send it to her so that she can read it as often as she needs to hear it.
I haven't read your whole sitch so I can't tell you if thats a great idea right now or not....in my case i'd love to do it, but am not willing to put anything to email or paper that can shed me in a bad light at all later in case we end up in court. If she files papers im gonna fight her for custody of my S11 so although I don't need to apologize for anything thats illegal like domestic violence or anything like that...i'd hate for her lawyer to have a laundry list on paper of things that I felt i'd done wrong as a husband and father to use against me if/when we end up in a custody battle. So i'll write it, but she won't see it, at least not for now.
As for the apologizing thing....I feel the same way that I can't continue to apologize for the same things over and over, its in the past we have to move one. With that being said i've never heard anything like the 999 times thing and its somewhat eye opening to me. My advice is this, and its for me and for you....when you apologize make it specific...not a general im sorry for not treating you the way you should have been treated....but as much as you can remember apologize for the specific events. And secondly write it down...on paper or in an email and send it to her so that she can read it as often as she needs to hear it.
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm doing. I think I said the blanket sorry over and over before saying enough is enough. I'm now trying to be specific....I've got 5-6 more things that I am truly sorry for. On one hand, I feel like I'm just owning up to my mistakes, and I'm ok doing that. But once I've gone thru my list, I will ask for forgiveness and stop apologizing for history. For now though, it seems to be having a positive effect on her, so I'll continue.
W did say she'd go with me to the Forgiveness retrov pitch in a couple of weeks, so I'm pretty happy about that. There's a 20 question quiz that is supposed to help determine the primary ways you forgive and I think that'll help us both.
Some days are harder than others. We had been touching quite a bit in the last week, but since the hiccup the other night, there's quite a bit of distance between us. Thinking back on it, when she apologized, I didn't handle it the best, and it's probably why she doesn't feel comfortable. I should have hugged her and thanked her for apologizing, but instead, I felt like I needed to stand firm on what I felt was acceptable and explain it. Looking at it now, I can see that I went into protection mode (and I was really feeling a lot of fear), and I can see it pushed her back into her shell.
On the bright side, the fact that I can sit back and reflect on these things now and make sense of them, think thru how I want to be and see where I've slipped from the path, really demonstrates my growth over the last year. This whole thing is a process, and I can see myself moving in the right direction. My goal would be to pull these thoughts together in the moment....getting closer.
Pretty good weekend...kept busy, had some fun with friends and my oldest son. After church yesterday, W and I worked in the yard a bit, then hung out on the patio and talked for a bit. The discussion moved to forgiveness and dialoguing and while I didn't ask anything about R directly, I got the sense that she sees things quite a bit differently than I (yeah, shocker I know). I have been taking it day by day, without expectations...I got the sense that she has kinda melded back into our old relationship. I didn't want to spook her, so I just let the conversation flow, but it honestly scares me. That's not what I want.
Troubling things:
- W has password protected her phone. On one hand, the last thing I want to do is snoop, so I don't care, but on the other, this seems to go directly against the idea of rebuilding trust.
- W talked to OM this morning, in our house, with me here, for 15-20 mins. It was just like old times...very little work talk, mostly bs catching up kinda stuff. I have told W, in no uncertain terms, that I would not accept OM in our M in any shape or form, so this clearly is a slap in the face.
- I needed an email address from W so she pulled it up on her laptop and I clearly saw 2-3 emails from OM (unread). On one hand, she actually brought the laptop to me and left the room, so she wasn't wasn't worried about the possibility of me taking a look (I didn't), but still, continued contact with OM is troubling.
W left this morning and asked me multiple times what was wrong with me...my poker face suks, but I just said "nothing." She actually hugged me before she left, which is odd since she pretty much just leaves without even looking at me most days.
W has only been back a couple of weeks, so I realize it's pretty early in the process, but I'm really not sure how to proceed. Do I 1) have a sit down with W at this point and let her know I won't accept any contact with OM or 2) just roll with it for the time being or 3) ask her to explain where she is and what she's thinking?
How do I prevent being a doormat without pressuring W?
Pretty good weekend...kept busy, had some fun with friends and my oldest son. After church yesterday, W and I worked in the yard a bit, then hung out on the patio and talked for a bit. The discussion moved to forgiveness and dialoguing and while I didn't ask anything about R directly, I got the sense that she sees things quite a bit differently than I (yeah, shocker I know). I have been taking it day by day, without expectations...I got the sense that she has kinda melded back into our old relationship. I didn't want to spook her, so I just let the conversation flow, but it honestly scares me. That's not what I want.
Troubling things:
- W has password protected her phone. On one hand, the last thing I want to do is snoop, so I don't care, but on the other, this seems to go directly against the idea of rebuilding trust.
- W talked to OM this morning, in our house, with me here, for 15-20 mins. It was just like old times...very little work talk, mostly bs catching up kinda stuff. I have told W, in no uncertain terms, that I would not accept OM in our M in any shape or form, so this clearly is a slap in the face.
- I needed an email address from W so she pulled it up on her laptop and I clearly saw 2-3 emails from OM (unread). On one hand, she actually brought the laptop to me and left the room, so she wasn't wasn't worried about the possibility of me taking a look (I didn't), but still, continued contact with OM is troubling.
W left this morning and asked me multiple times what was wrong with me...my poker face suks, but I just said "nothing." She actually hugged me before she left, which is odd since she pretty much just leaves without even looking at me most days.
W has only been back a couple of weeks, so I realize it's pretty early in the process, but I'm really not sure how to proceed. Do I 1) have a sit down with W at this point and let her know I won't accept any contact with OM or 2) just roll with it for the time being or 3) ask her to explain where she is and what she's thinking?
How do I prevent being a doormat without pressuring W?
"I cannot see how talking to OM is not a dealthblow to this M, a disrespect to me. <Wifesname>, your going to have to choose. Him or me in this marriage. I' prepared to let you go on about your way"
Thanks DLS. I worry about giving her an ultimatum...not so much for the fear of her leaving, but more for her taking it as a controlling behavior. When she even thinks it might be controlling, these days she digs in and just goes the opposite way on principle alone.
For the time being, I've simply created some distance between us, but that's a short term thing only. While I'm concerned about the conversation, I do think it's going to have to happen relatively soon. I don't like the way I feel about it, and honestly, I'd be fine to let her go if she thinks that's ok behavior.
On a positive note, I have continued to send my W a text every couple of days apologizing for something specific...I'm really amazed at what a positive effect it's had on her. This morning, she actually sent me one! I am still in shock. It wasn't for one of her bigger mistakes, but her owning her own behavior and actually apologizing is huge.
