XYZ here again...

[XYZ]

Hi Folks -

Been a long time since I was here - close to a year now.

Time for an update.... (and a small recap).

Sept 6, 2010 - I get "we might not work"
Sept 26, 2010 - I get "I want a D"
Brief (11 day) sep Oct/Nov 2010 followed by "Let's make this work"
Well, it didn't work.
5 month sep starting May 2011. W adamant about D. I move out into an apartment.
6 Weeks later, W asks if it's too late for counseling. I reply "It's not too late for me"
About a month later, we start what would become 3 1/2 months of MC -- while living apart.
I moved home in Oct 2011.

So that was 9 months ago....

When I compare it to then, things are wonderful. We've had our ups and downs, several fights, but talk about it later and we both listen. Not a straight shot by any means. Roller-coaster!

Here's my problem: I feel we're now in a SSM. We last had sex 2 almost 3 weeks ago (Father's day). Before that it was 3 months. Before that it was 2 months. All times were "quick, let's be done and go to sleep" types.

We've discussed this numerous times. So much so that W complains that we're talking about it again.

Her side is this: she doesn't sleep, our kids are up at night a lot, school is out so the kids are up later, and she's exhausted. I even arranged a night out without kids, found the hotel ranked "the sexiest hotel" in our state, and she was too tired. I get that, and it reads just like the opening chapter of SSM.

I asked her to read SSM. She agreed to, read the first couple of pages, declared herself insulted and said she wouldn't read any more.

I'm at my wits end. I love my wife deeply, love my kids, and don't want to send my life in a passionless marriage. I'm only 40 years old. I could have another 50 years on this Earth.

Now, the flip side. W now consistently calls me "honey". She kisses me hello consistently . She holds my hand in the car or when we walk together. These things were GONE GONE GONE 2 years ago and took a long time to come back. Am I just being impatient? Am I about to give up right as I get close to winning this F&^%ing marathon we all hate? I just don't know.

I keep telling myself 1 more month, 2 more months, but when is it all I can take?

Slow progress is still progress, right?

I'm here (again - I think this is my third round over 2 years being here) because I just need to vent.

At the moment, I decided that I would give it July, Aug, and Sept and then reevaluate. I feel like I'm becoming the WAS - I express my needs and get disregarded. Isn't that exactly how I made her feel before she walked away?

I guess I need to focus on the small positives and just hope that they add up to enough sometime soon...

I'm so tired of this. If you'd told me 2 years ago what the next 2 years would be like, I'm not sure I wouldn't have just given up.

XYZ

P.S. Jack, Harrier: I've thought of you guys often in my sabbatical. Hope you're well.

[Starsky309]

XYZ, would your wife agree to go to a sex counselor?

As a LONG-time SSM'er, I am also a skeptic. I've personally never seen the whole "if you work on changing yourself, the other will HAVE to change" thing work. In my experience (not just my own, but observing other SSMs), it's more like the old joke:

"My wife wants to have sex one a month, and I want to have it three times a week, and so we compromised: we have it once a month."

Which to us high-drive spouses, ain't so funny, lol.

People only make deep profound changes when confronted by crisis or fear-of-loss, in my opinion. Your wife simply isn't afraid of losing you. Only you can decide whether or not there is any teeth behind a stance of "I've decided that I will no longer live in a sexless marriage."

Tough stuff, I know.


Starsky

[Accuray]

XYZ,

I was in a SSM as well for many years. At one point I stopped asking to see how long it would take for W to want it herself. After a year I gave up and W hadn't even noticed that we hadn't had sex. The common theme of that period is that my kids were 3 and 5 at the time.

My kids are now 13, 11 and 7 and the demands on our time and energy are exponentially less.

After the bomb when W said she wanted to make things work I did have her read the SSM and that's the only book she read at my request. She did change and we are having sex more frequently, at least once per week. Its not all roses however. One agreement we made is she gets to decide when -- each time I try to initiate I get rejected. Also, she makes it clear that its "for you" and that she doesn't intend to enjoy it. That's probably better than not getting it but certainly far from satisfying.

A few thoughts -- a 3 and 5 year old will suck the life out of you, you may see things naturally get better in 4 years or so. Are there things you can do to take on more child responsibility yourself, let her sleep in etc? Can you afford a nanny to help out part time?

I also think you need to have a serious talk with her about your needs and tell her you want to work with her on a solution. When she married you you gave her the exclusive right to meet your sexual needs. You cant take care of that by yourself or with someone else -- she is the only one that can satisfy that need for you.

Accuray

[XYZ]

Thanks, Accuray...

My kids are almost 7 and 4 1/2 now...

I love them dearly, but you're right, they just eat up our time and energy. W and I have talked about that many times. Her stand is "what do you want us to do? Is sex more important than our kids". My answer is of course not, but yes, sorta. Ha. It doesn't even make sense when I write it. Is sex more important that the kids? No, certainly not in an acute sense. Is it important that we have a good marriage for the kids? Absolutely. Is a healthy sex life a requirement for a good marriage? For me, yes.

I've read in several places that marital satisfaction is at it's lowest in the years between the second kids birth and them starting school. I'm 13 months away from that date and that's part of what causes me so much angst. Are things about to get better?

W and I used to have a great sex life. She claims even now that she's "the whole package". She says "she does anything" (she doesn't, but was still very fun in that department). Well, that could be true again, but first we have to have time and energy alone together and it's just not a priority for her...

Other issues: I was pressuring her, I get that. I brought it up a lot, I get that too. Part of my let's see how July, August, and September go is that I'm not saying one single word about it. Not one. I don't ask. I don't complain. I don't whine. Nothing. And so far, while no sex, we have gotten along very well. There is no tension in the house, we're interacting great. It really feels like a ton of stress is just gone. I hope she feels it too.

At the same time, I feel kinda like a WAS. I nagged and got disregarded until I stopped nagging. Just like the LBS, is she in the zone where everything must be great because I stopped complaining? I know that I was there once... At the end of 3 months, will it be like a bomb got dropped on HER?

So, I'll stick by my plan. Over the next 90 days either the absence of tension will help her come around or it won't. If it doesn't, then I just don't know what I'll do then....

X

[Accuray]

Ok, I was going from the kids ages in your signature. Sex versus parenting is a BS choice. How about, do you want me to spend time talking to you, or do you want me to be a good parent? You have to both have sex and be good parents, it's not either or.

I predict that your put it in the backseat strategy won't lead anywhere good -- she won't even notice and you will just get more resentful.

Are you doing all the SSM prescriptions?

-- spend time every day talking to her and listening
-- figure out her love language and speak it
-- figure out her top emotional needs and ensure they are met
-- make yourself as physically attractive as possible

If so, then have the discussion.

Two strategies that helped in my sitch:

1). I agreed that I would not escalate physical affection. If H wanted to hug, hold hands, whatever I would not view that as the first step in foreplay. Mirror but don't escalate. Tell her that's what you're going to do. It creates a "safe" environment for affection that will be good for her.

2). Tell her you need sex to happen on a certain frequency -- once a month, twice a month, whatever you can live with and feel good. Tell her she's in charge of deciding when, as long as you adhere to the frequency. Tell her you don't like being rejected, she doesn't like rejecting you, so the best solution is if she decides when.

3). Look at everything she does to take care of the kids and take on some of it. It could be doing their laundry, making their lunch in the morning, taking them to school or to the doctor, arranging playdates, whatever. The key is that you have to entirely own it. Don't wait for her to tell you their laundry needs to be done, make a habit of determining that yourself. If you just do the action but she has to do the planning and management you haven't really offloaded mental cycles and that's what makes her tired. Plus, pay someone to clean the house on some schedule.

Accuray

[Accuray]

I should have said W, not H

[XYZ]

Yeah, unfortunately, my signatue is almost two years old now....

[DaddyLongShanks]

Thanks, Accuray...

My kids are almost 7 and 4 1/2 now...

I love them dearly, but you're right, they just eat up our time and energy. W and I have talked about that many times. Her stand is "what do you want us to do? Is sex more important than our kids". My answer is of course not, but yes, sorta. Ha. It doesn't even make sense when I write it. Is sex more important that the kids? No, certainly not in an acute sense. Is it important that we have a good marriage for the kids? Absolutely. Is a healthy sex life a requirement for a good marriage? For me, yes.

I've read in several places that marital satisfaction is at it's lowest in the years between the second kids birth and them starting school. I'm 13 months away from that date and that's part of what causes me so much angst. Are things about to get better?

W and I used to have a great sex life. She claims even now that she's "the whole package". She says "she does anything" (she doesn't, but was still very fun in that department). Well, that could be true again, but first we have to have time and energy alone together and it's just not a priority for her...

Other issues: I was pressuring her, I get that. I brought it up a lot, I get that too. Part of my let's see how July, August, and September go is that I'm not saying one single word about it. Not one. I don't ask. I don't complain. I don't whine. Nothing. And so far, while no sex, we have gotten along very well. There is no tension in the house, we're interacting great. It really feels like a ton of stress is just gone. I hope she feels it too.

At the same time, I feel kinda like a WAS. I nagged and got disregarded until I stopped nagging. Just like the LBS, is she in the zone where everything must be great because I stopped complaining? I know that I was there once... At the end of 3 months, will it be like a bomb got dropped on HER?

So, I'll stick by my plan. Over the next 90 days either the absence of tension will help her come around or it won't. If it doesn't, then I just don't know what I'll do then....

X

How the hell did they manage to equivolate "sex == not a good parent"?

Physical affirmation does not take very long at all, even if one did 5 minutes in a 1440 minute day that would be doing great.

[XYZ]

I actually do all of those things. I started doing them all hard-core after the bomb (and still do) and they worked. I felt better, she wanted to come back.

I'm in great shape, workout 6 days a week. Just ran a 10k this weekend.

I spend lots of time with her and kids. I even got a different job that required less time, so I'd have more time at home.

That's part of my frustration...

[XYZ]

Posting here has gotten me thinking alot...

Some things she has said to me over the months are...

"You'd probably get more of what you want if you just stop asking"

"I don't know if you realize just how far back we had to come"

"I like sex too, you act like I don't like it"

Also, the non-sexual affection has stepped up. These are the reasons I've decided to hold out longer and keep hoping....