Accuray, what do you think were the most successful changes in you that restored your R?
I don't want to threadjack, and my sitch is complicated, but I would say three things:
1) I learned that my W's needs don't parallel my own, she needed things differently, and didn't value receiving what I was providing. She likes quality time and conversation, I like words of affirmation and shared activity. Therefore, I would tell my wife I loved her all the time, how much I appreciated her, etc., and I would invite her to do things with me, but I did not spend a lot of time just sitting down talking to her, calling her, checking in, just listening, etc. Therefore, I thought I was being a good husband because I was sending so well on the channels I like to receive, but in fact I was missing the mark entirely. When she wouldn't respond to my efforts, I'd get frustrated and that would make things worse.
2) I was able to create a climate of physical affection that didn't have to lead to sex. We made two key agreements -- one was that I would not initiate or escalate physical affection. If she hugged me, I could hug her back, if she kissed me I could kiss her back, but I couldn't take it up a notch. This made it "safe" to be physical with me without worrying about me immediately heading for the bedroom. This has been very good, and over time we've been able to relax some of it where I can now initiate affection, but I still stay away from escalation.
3) I did a huge amount of work on myself, I really did 180 her complaints, I got educated, I read everything I could get my hands on relationship-wise, went to IC and MC by myself, used a DB coach, etc. etc. Basically I tried to leave no stone unturned in terms of understanding the problem and what it would take to be successful.
These three things helped once I had a chance, but FF is not there yet. In FF's situation, the things I did were as follows:
a) Give W space b) 180 W's complaints and work on me c) Measure everything I did or said against a yardstick of resentment. When W leaves, there is an ocean of built-up resentment. They resent you for making them leave. They then resent your efforts to salvage things in the 11th hour, because why the hell didn't you make the efforts before? In short, they'll resent the following:
-- making them feel responsible for your unhappiness -- telling them this is their fault, their doing, etc. -- criticizing their own lack of effort -- talking about your needs in any way -- involving their family or friends to advocate on your behalf -- begging or pleading -- looking or acting "sad" around them -- involving the kids in any way, or making any comments to the kids about the situation that aren't positive
You have to avoid ALL of that, and it's SUPER HARD. I felt like I was putting on a 100lb backpack full of rocks every morning and walking around all day with a forced smile, and I did that for months. No show of anger, no show of grief, just "act as if", focus on you, and become hyper-aware of the "resentment meter", they're just looking for you to do something to reinforce their decision -- don't give it to them!
Enough of a threadjack!
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
FF, in terms of the post above, when you tell your W you miss her, you are making her resent you more, that's why she doesn't respond. When you say you miss her, you're saying "I'm sad because of what you've done". She doesn't want to be responsible for your sadness, and she will resent you for putting her in that position.
The best thing you can do is appear happy in spite of her. Make her want to share your happiness with you, because it's intoxicating and infectious. That's a much better strategy than asking her to ease your loneliness, what's in it for her?
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I don't disagree with any of that advice FF. Accurays' words are good even if they do not completely fit your sitch. You can tweak them.
Going dark does not mean the same thing when you still have kids. So don't worry that there'll be "no contact" b/c there has to be some, you have kids.
I would not do anything however, that reminds her of the old you. The flirting before during and after marrying and going online, etc --ALL things like that I'd keep away from her (or better yet, since you want the marriage restored, just do not do them.)
She may not admit it but I have a very hard time believing those past events did not eat away at her.
So as for "wearing the ring/vs/Not wearing it" to make a statement...what statement do you want to send?
Til you're legally divorced AND ready to date, (which happens some time after a divorce)
why not keep it on b/c YOU are working on the marriage? For you?
That small act is a symbol of your choices made for you.
And as others have said, let's not worry about how she SAYS you're fine and it's not you.
B/C if that is really true, then you are powerless b/c you have nothing to work on.
So see the concept of working on shortcomings as the empowering gift that it is.
When the first 3 mc's we saw told me my h was "acting single" and "being selfish" I felt vindicated at first....I was "right" and he was "wrong".
It changed nothing. I mean, what do I DO with that "insight"? Not much.
Not til I began DBing and found a solution based t, did I focus on ME and that's really good b/c I am all I control.
Good luck, you may well be able to turn this around.
Can you describe a great memory of a family OR couple event, that you think your w really enjoyed? What were YOU like in that event?
that may help you learn something about her love languages. Chapmans' book The Five Love Languages that Accy recommended, is good for all couples.
I think your time line of expectations is far too short. See my signature block for my perspective. FF, are you the type of guy who HAS to have a woman in his life, even if it means losing THE woman in his life? Dig deep here. You had two women at once, more than once, and then went online for something...
How did you change that?
FYI- A study showed Most long term marriages (marriages that last) cite the few years after the birth of their 2nd child, as the least satisfying time in the marriage. Makes sense to me.
A lot of purely physical demands are made of the parent with primary physical "custody" of the kids, = sleep deprivation and NOT going out a lot unless it's very kid friendly. The kid's needs are at their highest, and the couples don't have a lot of time to bond as an entity of their own. We stopped travelling far for about 2 years.
Post partum Hormones frequently drop a woman's libido for months, and later on then sheer exhaustion can kick in too. Often fathers work extra due to the increased financial pressure so they're home less, which means more of a burden on the wife (& dad). SOME men feel neglected or even jealous of their children, and choose to act out, right at the time their wife may feel most vulnerable as a woman. This isn't rare.
Finally, just so I know I'm not mis-reading this and b/c you didn't answer, did my recap push a button? I really wasn't trying to rub your face in the past,
but sometimes you speak as if you're only looking at what she says today & you seem "stumped" by her choices/words.
But her choice was not made in a vacuum. She's conflicted, which is GOOD news for you. As much pain as she's been in for awhile, which MAY have lead her to shut down feelings as a protective measure, shows that there was also some real love for you too. Do you know what I'm saying/asking? As for her saying all is well, how long has it been? Wait til the logistics hit when school begins or the holidays come. She has not had time to factor all this in and she thinks the grass is greener on the other side of her repressed pain.
I think the grass is greener where it gets the most water (attention). You conceded already you guys did not have or build on couple time.
When she sees you putting such sustained effort into yourself, without expecting from her, she'll wonder about whether her "data" on you is still accurate. Maybe, just maybe, you did change
and maybe she CAN trust the change are real and lasting.
IMO, it's Only then will she let her feelings resurface and good memories and hopes, be examined.
Hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
thank you all for the wonderful insights... I am reading them all and taking them into account... I'm sorry if I don't respond directly, but "quoting" is not a skill I've picked up here yet... I'm trying to process all this info at once...
believe me, that I have looked at this from W point of view... she had every right to leave me 9 years ago, and frankly I'm blessed she didn't... the last 5 years I've been making efforts to change myself and I'm still making those efforts...
I don't blame her, I don't hate her... I have been talking the IC and a DB coach and they think I'm on the right track here... I'm trying my darndest to be her friend first... as well as the best dad I can be... I'm becoming a better man of god, and a better man as a result... I've lost 25lbs in the last month and am working on keeping it off now...
I have ordered the 5 love languages and will read it and do my best to practice it if given the chance...
I will be going "dark" this week, as MIL is in town to help since I'm teaching this week in addition to being at the fire station...
thank you all so very much for believing in me... I can see one thing that I need to work on personally is my self esteem... it has NEVER been any good... I have a project now...
I am also working VERY hard on my patience (have little at times) as well as trying not to be so pessimistic.. those are 40 year old habits and take a while to correct...
lastly, 25mlc, no you didn't push a button, I've been busy.. LOL... I know I was an knucklehead early on... and I've worked hard not to be... the OW was a habit that I had to break.. it took my W moving out to do it... I did it... was very hard but I did it...
and I know I will make it through this... without a doubt... I BELIEVE that this will get better and W will come home... she has noticed my changes and we have a fine time when around each other, which ONLY started after I quit pursuing her... I learned that lesson... and I've had the "I miss you" slip twice when vulnerable... but when she slipped and said "I love you" I didn't call her out, or say anything about it... I let it go...
I'm learning... DB coach thinks I'm doing great... I will keep doing the best I can to be the friend she needs and the best dad I can be...
thanks again everyone for all the positive comments.. I am reading them and taking them all to heart...
M:40 W:31 S:8 S:5 D:8(prev. relationship) Bomb dropped: 5/10/12 It's not you it's me MO: 6/1/12 T:14 M:9
but you started out living with her and cheating on her, she left but when you learned she was pregnant you two then got married
but you cheated on her again, after marryiing AND created a child with OW? So your sons have a half sibling, whom you barely see? Does your w ever comment on that?
she and I broke up over OW, yes, then got back together and got pregnant, she moved back, but I was still stupid and kept flirting and emailing with OW...
she moved out when I was at the fire station, I got blind drunk called OW, she came over, we got pregnant...
after that I decided I wanted to win back my wife, she moved home, and stayed with me, R with OW was over at that point other than having a D...
no, W doesn't every comment on that... I always asked her when a good time would be for a visit with D, told her exactly where we would be, and came home exactly when I said I would, answered her phone calls and txts when at visit... but no, she has never commented on it...
I have no doubt that she is still harboring some resentment and pain from that betrayal... I will be the first person to admit that she SHOULD have left me 9 years ago... for the last 5 years though, she has been telling me everything was fine, and that she was happy and that she was in love with me... until the bomb... I have NO idea what flipped the switch that day, and she says I did nothing wrong, she was just done trying... she checked out at that time... I got the It's not you it's me speech and she insists that she won't try (or at least did we have not discussed M or R for a month)...
I have no idea what i can work on or change, because she's given me NOTHING to work with... no grievances, no issues, other than I love you as the father of our kids, but I don't LOVE you... I've made my decision and it's final (was at that time anyway)
I will continue to give her the space and time that she needs to heal and process and i pray every day that God will give her a change of heart and she will want to try to work on our M for our kids at least...
only time will tell... I am very impatient at times, and that's something that I'm working on... I'm trying very hard to let me worry and anxiety go... and not focus on things that I can't control... the problem is my perception of time has been totally out of whack... it's been 6 weeks and it feels like 6 months... but I'm getting better...
thank you again, to all for your insights and support... it means a very great deal to me... have faith, be good and stay safe...
M:40 W:31 S:8 S:5 D:8(prev. relationship) Bomb dropped: 5/10/12 It's not you it's me MO: 6/1/12 T:14 M:9
I think your time line of expectations is far too short. See my signature block for my perspective. FF, are you the type of guy who HAS to have a woman in his life, even if it means losing THE woman in his life?
no... I'm not.. I love my wife unconditionally... I have made great efforts over the years to be the person she said she needed... she appreciates and admits how hard I've worked.. but says she was expecting her feelings to change when I changed, and they didn't... so she's left because of it...
Dig deep here. You had two women at once, more than once, and then went online for something...
How did you change that?
shear will... I finally decided that I wanted to give up the OW and wasn't being TOLD to give up OW... so I did it to get my W and S back...
as far at the online thing I was craving attention... that was all... I was getting NONE at home...
But her choice was not made in a vacuum. She's conflicted, which is GOOD news for you. As much pain as she's been in for awhile, which MAY have lead her to shut down feelings as a protective measure, shows that there was also some real love for you too.
I know she loves/d me... and I know it my heart if she would just commit to trying, we could be stronger and better than ever... my eyes have been opened to where we went wrong... our priorities were in the wrong place... I see that now...
Do you know what I'm saying/asking?
Not so much... no... please elaborate... I'm not avoiding any questions intentionally...
M:40 W:31 S:8 S:5 D:8(prev. relationship) Bomb dropped: 5/10/12 It's not you it's me MO: 6/1/12 T:14 M:9
when will I learn... after a great father's day I messed up again... when dropping off the boys with their grandma on monday morning, I asked her to show some tough love and not buy everything under the sun for W and new apartment... I messed up and broke a rule... again... it's been over a month and I'm still in tremendous pain and obviously not thinking clearly... now as a result, W has removed married status from Facebook and been very stand offish, ie... mad at me for the week... when will I learn?
M:40 W:31 S:8 S:5 D:8(prev. relationship) Bomb dropped: 5/10/12 It's not you it's me MO: 6/1/12 T:14 M:9
New day and more prayers. Working on giving my fear and worry to God. Maybe at some point I'll learn. Good news is misery diet plan works great. I'm down to 210lbs. Lost almost 35 since this started. I gotta say I look good! Lol.
M:40 W:31 S:8 S:5 D:8(prev. relationship) Bomb dropped: 5/10/12 It's not you it's me MO: 6/1/12 T:14 M:9
