from the WAS to being walked away on

[strongerthanever]

One more thing..any thoughts about when h throws his fun new life in my face? I never react just thought I'd ask if anyone had insight add to of why and the best way to react.

[25yearsmlc]

Kafe,

I had never though of that...what IF he had been having a great day?

Odd how despite any barriers he puts up, he never hours more than a few days without contacting me for some reason. That is one positive. When he does make contact, I am never rude. Feeling matching is an old habit I have finally let go of.

It doesn't matter how nasty he gets, I will not base my reactions or quality of life on them. I don't even bring them up. I never even brought up the divorce papers I was served, and I don't ever see a need to.

Agreed. What's to say if you have lawyers to say it for you? And I believe in using the L's as shields so if he brings up a financial/legal matter you then "defer" to the L's to "let them work it out." I assume you have one, right?

Anytime there are assets OR CHILDREN you'd be nuts not to have representation...


I am committing to DB, but not with the intent of saving my marriage. I like the person I am becoming and DB techniques are a great life skill. I see every interaction with h as an opportunity to sharpen those skills.

saving yourself first is, to me, the First Goal of DBing. We want to save marriages, if we can, but not at all costs...you seem to have the right attitude here.


One thing I am aware of is that while I know how to behave right now, I am unprepared as of how to act should he open up again. Thanking him for his openness is a start...

that's all you have to DO right then. You'll "need time to process that information" and trust me, you will. He could change his mind the next day or week.

You'll want a lot of certainty that he's really changed and committed to change. ONe sign of that on both your parts is whether you'd go to Retrovaille, the weekend retreat for marriages in crisis.

OW would have to be gone first but that is THEIR (ie Retrovaille's) condition to place, not yours.


He said he tried to come back to me, which I guess in his eyes is true. Mind you it was after I walked in on him and ow. He wanted back out of fear, not add a man who had done some soul searching that left him with a new commitment to his m.


How do you KNOW this^^^??

As much as I love him I can not be in a relationship with the man that he is right now. The man I will come back to is:

1. Rrspectful of women. Does not take them for granted or use them add a distraction from reality of the sitch
2. Not having any inappropriate contact with ow, who happens to be his boss (till Nov, when he gets out of the army)
3.willing to commit to the m and can openly honestly communicate

What am I doing to help foster these changes?
1.not allowing myself to be one of the women he disrespects
2.being patient
3.non reactive to his behaviors

What type of woman will you be, to earn all this? I mean, I see some things, but not enough specifics.

Can you list some specific changes you are making that make you a woman only a fool would leave?


I think that stuff might get dissected and thrown everywhere, but in that case I need it. One thing I know I need is advice on what to do should he open up again. I feel it's inevitable and don't want to do anything destructive.

Then listen to him, tell him you need time, and wait til sufficient time has passed for you to know something, either way.

It's telling that when You told him you would file to give him a heads up, then he beat you to the punch the next day. That means he probably already had a lawyer...correct?

So He's a long way from owning his stuff b/c that reeks of "gotcha" and very immature score keeping. But then, wasn't your real goal to "wake him up"?
When I filed for a sep (to protect our assets b/c my h was about to "invest" with his heroes on the tundra)....so my h's first reaction was to give himself permission to date...talk about unexpected...but time passed, and so did that...

Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth. Meaning, don't make it harder for him to come home than it already will be.

If you never saw forgiveness growing up, and I had not, it's a learned skill. What are you doing to learn how to forgive?


Regardless of whether you reconcile, letting go is crucial to YOUR well being. I think you know this and I say Kudos to you. You're a fast learner.

Decide if you really can do the forgiveness thing, b/c if you cannot forgive, which requires letting go of this, then this is a pointless time consuming endeavor.

I'm not judging you if you can't let it go. It's just too hard for some. But if it's true, then own it. Do NOT make the mistake of staying married only to stay miserable. That's a lousy legacy to leave your descendants.

My GUESS, and I make this based only on this thread, is that your h felt that it was easier to hook up w/OW than to meet your list of grievances when you were the WAW. Any truth to that?

How long was your list of what he did wrong?

Was it like climbing MT Everest? Your list ^^^ there, is very vague imo and I think men in particular want concrete steps they can take to measure their progress and a lot of feedback. I'd want specifics if I were in the running to be your mate.

What is his Love Language (I'm assuming you have read "The Five Love Languages" book, which I recommend to ALL couples.)

If it looks too hard or amorphous to meet your needs/demands,

OR if the WAS (him, now)

feels that no matter what he does, the affair will be held over his head or thrown in his face at your whim, (even if he's wrong to believe that), he won't come back.

What would happen if he feared losing you to OM? I'm only asking.

FWIW I don't see him ending up w/OW b/c she does not sound as if she will be very available to be his wife#2

Surely it'd be a much much bigger mess than he is aware of.

Seems he won't let go of one vine to grab another, like a monkey who can't choose, so he'll keep swinging...

As for "ready for sex but not a R" although I laughed when I first read it, and rolled my eyes, I also thought, "well, that might be how HE feels connected."

for MANY men, that's true. Does not make it easy or "right" but it's more understandable. He wants some connection with you for sure...

hang in there...did you read the 'Rules for Newcomers"? They may help you.

[25yearsmlc]

One more thing..any thoughts about when h throws his fun new life in my face?

to justify his choices to himself/you AND b/c he keeps a scorecard, big time. That's why HE filed when you warned him that you were going to file. Instead of making an effort to stop you, he "won" by "beating" you to it...

FWIW, scorecards always always hurt m's and friendships. Never a good idea.


I never react just thought I'd ask if anyone had insight add to of why and the best way to react.

Not reacting is pretty great....Better yet, perhaps, is pretending to be happy for him b/c you have to say "something"..

- IF you can pull it off.

It can take Academy Award level skill to do so, but then, many of us deserve acting awards b/c God knows we were acting!-

These are some ideas but I would invite others comments/suggestions too

b/c though I like these, I am not positive it's totally DBing. I think it is.

How about trying-

"Sounds fun/cool for you!" "Well I bet that was a good show"...and happily move on to your next mystery adventure in GAL.

IF he throws OW in your face in some specific way, like it's about HER VS YOU, e.g., "ME AND OW are..." Or "OW is so great/better than you b/c..."


why not ask him if he "thinks that's really appropriate to tell me" and then shrug it off as if he's probably an idiot, but NOT as if you are very upset.

You are Just setting a boundary that NORMAL people who are not petty or competitive, live by.

Another option is to reply w/ "well I'm glad you are finally happy" and try hard as hell to look like you mean it...


And always, always have something fun to do, interesting people to meet or new places to go. Geez, make it your mantra and live by it.

Also, I have 2 famliy members who divorced and remarried their exes a few YEARS later. I emphasize "years" b/c it was not a fast process and I don't think any of them planned on reconciling. But they had kids together so there was contact. They all GAL and each one improved as an individual...

so hey, It happens.

[Kimmerz]

Jamie33 and 25mlc,

I've been reading this thread and it's been every so helpful and insightful. Thank you!

XH is a WAH/MLCer, and I question if we've begun the turn around of me being the WAW and he the LBS. He showed alot of positive changes over the last few months, but still keeps a score card.

I appreciate the pointers on score keeping. keeping score is bad ju ju! XH started keeping score and next thing you know I found myself doing that too. Im not proud of myself for that either!

[strongerthanever]

25,

Girl I have taken the 37 rules to heart and have been living by them for well over a month! Lol. I have adapted the gal so well it isn't even funny. I don't always have something planned in reality, but my perceived reality is so real it almost seems funny when I come back home not having done anything. I think it's kinda funny. I'm actually buzzed and happy as if I really do have something to do.

And yes, I really have let go and forgiven. I don't take his growing experience personally. I think it's selfish and lazy to put my source of happiness on someone else. I don't even hold ow over his head or mention her. I connect her with someone God has sent to help him through this time.

I'm not so sure about her lasting effect either, seeing how she IS married. OWH is in another state. I just see them connecting BC she just moved here and was probably just as lonely as he. At least I know she takes good care of d2//3.

And oh my gosh his d paperwork was so sloppy! He is being self represented, do no L. Interesting though, the paperwork he filled this June was notarized in March, right after a nasty blow up. That was my last acting up. Never again though

He does not know my reasons for being the waw. He knows how awful he treated me, but the connection is lost. I never told him, and honestly it want until recently that I figured it out myself. At first I thought he just didn't love me, but after stepping back I can see patterns with every woman that had come into his life.

A yr ago we were in this same place. He went home and connected with an old girlfriend. He was so in love, and I was so ready to move on that he wanted, and I agreed, to let ow #1 move into our home. Yup. They lived in the basement, asking with her d3. I got myself into school (still going strong!) And focused on my life. I was using DB without even knowing it. A month later he sent them packing, back to their other state. Talk about using women for comfort!

We ended up back together, but never discussed anything. Lo and behold, the old him resurfaced. Got my car in December and was patient till the lease was up in Feb. And in typical waw fashion, I was gone baby. So no, nothing had ever been discussed. And now I see him using ow#2 the same way.

I can see how he got himself in a bind this time though. She's his boss, and their entire section is like one big group of close friends. They are all in on it. All they do is party, and who wants to abandon the fun carefree life for their family when it comes with the price of work being hell? I totally get it.

Party time is up soon though. Ow is leaving for 2 months in sep for an army school. Our d could be finalized that month. Nov he is out of the army. He doesn't have a job or anything figured out. And he gave up his apartment last month BC he couldn't afford it. Even though he's staying with his buddy from his section, he's really homeless. Talk about a future domino effect from his poor decision making. In 3 months his world is gonna fall apart. Crazy predicament.

I'm very cautious of him returning just for stability. He just turned 24, and as evident in his score keeping, has a lot of maturing to do. God must have great plans for him, staging his growing experience so early in life.

Funny how I'm not even phased by his filling for d. I will stay happy and upbeat and will meet every deadline. If the Lord has something else planned for me than I will lovingly accept. Just because he doesn't see my value doesn't mean I lack it. I love myself and don't take his issues personally.

As for the sex part, I totally get your point, and I agree. with the emotion he put onto it I have no doubt that was his way of staying connected. But that is one of my 180s and I'm sticking to it. It's also for my emotional and mental sanity. Hard for me to feel his love for me in that way and then know he is back with her. Plus, I love him enough to be the first example of a woman in his life that respects herself enough to tell him no ~ even if it means losing him in the process.

I will try on your approach for a few months of acting happy for him when he throws his plans with ow in my face. Will report on how it works...
I was also wondering if it was his way of acting as if? Even though he blew it 2 Weeks ago by admitting that he is unhappy, still "finds life very hard" and said he was not in love.

[strongerthanever]

Kim,

I am shocked to see that my hot mess of a m has bee in insightful, but glad that it is. I am intrigued to see that he was the was, ended in d and now his heart is changing. I always hear about hearts changing just before or after the reality of the d. I can totally see how DB survival skills could not only save your sanity, but also turn the lbs into the was.

I think they finally find themselves and keep on walking down their new path. I think it is so vital to keep that tiny door cracked, even though their hurtful actions keep slamming it shut. I am by far no expert on this as I am aware of my ability to do the same.

I would say though, don't slam it shut. Don't be mean or nasty. Consider the old m dead, and see the new r with fresh eyes. It could be a great friendship or possibly nothing. But, what if, (this is a big one, I know) it took him this long to grow into the man you were meant to be with. You can turn your back on the old h, but what about the new and improved one??

[strongerthanever]

I'm noticing an odd pattern in h. As a reason to make contact h will go at length to contact me about an upcoming event. he will even call and text the day of but then...nothing. What gives? I don't even mention that he doesn't follow through, I'm just intrigued by it.

Ex: him wanting to spend time today with the girls (fathers day). We were texting about what time, where, ect. I make contact as promised, when promised, but no response. I missed his phone call so I return it only to be sent to his voice mail. ???

I need to go firm on this guy, no more bending any rules to accommodate his wants. not sure why but he seems angry and big on score keeping (though I haven't given him anything to take score of). Anyone have some insight about what's going on here?

[25yearsmlc]

I started 2 other threads so I'm going to move them over here...

just so I know where to post now, THIS is your thread, right? I mean there is only one now?

[25yearsmlc]

I'm noticing an odd pattern in h. As a reason to make contact h will go at length to contact me about an upcoming event. he will even call and text the day of but then...nothing. What gives? I don't even mention that he doesn't follow through, I'm just intrigued by it.

Ex: him wanting to spend time today with the girls (fathers day). We were texting about what time, where, ect. I make contact as promised, when promised, but no response. I missed his phone call so I return it only to be sent to his voice mail. ???

I need to go firm on this guy, no more bending any rules to accommodate his wants. not sure why but he seems angry and big on score keeping (though I haven't given him anything to take score of). Anyone have some insight about what's going on here?

didn't you two just have a great experience the other day? This is him withdrawing and going cold. He was very hurt

and does not want to be hurt again. This is why, as Crimson says, we call it a roller coaster. You have both been hurt and done some hurting.

What changes are YOU making? How long have you been making them? Hasn't this been pretty fast for both of you?

so of course his biggest fear is going back and being hurt again AND OR not reconciling and being alone.

Consistent change + sufficient time = change you both can believe in.

Belt yourself in and work on YOU and only you. How are the books coming? Do you buy into the DB beliefs? They are solution based-

means, NOT about rehashing the past or keeping score, or studying WHY your childhood was what it was, etc....but doing what helps the m NOW, and doing less or none of what hurts it. That's what DB 101 is...

The deal where you both were giving the gilrs lousy clothes b/c you FEARED the other would withhold was very telling...major score keeping in anticipation of the other "winning"...("winning"... what?? See how petty it all seems now?)

I'm so glad you stopped that cycle. Model for your h the NEW R you have now...

Be someone who will have no regrets later on.

If you become your best self, =

a woman only a fool would leave, then you can know you did your best

hold your head high, & leave the results up to God.

[strongerthanever]

25 yrs,

Check out the other thread I started in this forum ooh my goodness it isn't dead. It's an update on what happened a few hours after I posted this ?

I agree though. I think he's hurting, and also guilt ridden/ashamed to face me. All I can do if keep the changes going and shore him through my actions that the road home is smooth, not paved with obstacles to overcome.