Grace, Love, Compassion, & Faith - Looks Like What

[Valeska19]

It's been awhile since I've posted on my own sitch.

The week with my sister went very good. I kinda took 25's Italy's trip mentality - and GAL'ed the crap out of it.

Spent way more money than I should have.

This included my very first tattoo. It's something that I've wanted since I was 18.. and I finally got it. I was always made fun of by my wife for wanting it - so it was a very emotional day for me.

Went to Vegas and saw a cirque show. Bought a bunch of new clothes including these super fantastic cowboy boots. I seriously can't wait to go line dancing in them.

Introduced my sister to all my friends and family. Went line-dancing, hit up a few cool bars, and spent the evening with some people who have greatly benefited my life in the past year.

It was a pretty awesome trip. My bucket list/goal list is dwindling... so I think it's time for some new goals.

Besides being awesome, my trip was very interesting..

My sister has always been the strong one helping me, but there was quite a role reveral when she was here.

Here she depended on me a whole bunch. She was very shy around my friends. She wouldn't line dance.

In vegas - I had to drag her to the fashion outlet to buy a dress.

And at points I would get very frustrated. Mostly because it took me awhile to "see" that she was going through something.

She wasn't very communicative in regards to that.

Also - she got into a fight with her boyfriend over the phone. He's a little insecure and was passive aggressive with her.

There was ALOT of assumptions.. there was ALOT of making the other person guess.

I got really upset by the fight. It's been a LONG time since I've heard that, and it's not how I communicate anymore.

So it was very educational in alot of ways. Reminded me that I have alot to work through and will for a very long time.

===============================

Things with the w is quiet. Taxes are done. I'm still working on getting my own health and car insurance.

No texts, no phone calls, no emails.

It's peaceful which I appreciate.. but always sad as well.

My schedule is a little hectic right now but I'm really wanting to email her first about signing the papers.

I'm not really sure why -

As much as I don't know her anymore and we have never spoken socially/hung out in almost a year, I still don't want this D.

But at the same time - I feel like I need to be the one to initiate the signing og the papers so I can move on - get it through my head that it's over and live.. completely.

Guess I'm still working this out....

[25yearsmlc]

HEY,

"you're welcome!"...

To this day, I think that trip to Italy was the best money I ever begged, borrowed and "found" in my life. My kids and I LOVED that trip, for a lot of reasons.

NO REGRETS, my friend...probably the best thing I ever did for myself and kids...

So, a Tattoo huh?

That's gonna leave a mark...

[25yearsmlc]

PS

yes you are still working things out. But among other things you are doing well, you are not rushing TO DO "something"..."anything"

b/c the papers won't necessarily give you closure or get you moving forward.

Not sure what will, but it seems to me that's your choice, right? I mean, will the taking of a pen and signing of a paper, do it for you? Will a gavel banging?

I'm a L and I get a lot of symbolism from things like that.

For ME, the signature and or a gavel banging (not likely to hear it, btw)

WOULD probably be enough of a "ritual" to make me "feel" something had changed.

What do you think would help you?

[Valeska19]

So, a Tattoo huh?

That's gonna leave a mark...

HA - It did indeed. It's quite a beautiful one too. Leave it to me to go big and intricate on my 1st one.

I don't think I will regret my trip either. I get worried about money from time to time but that's what my savings are for. All this money that I saved for owning a place/first kid with the w.. is for a dream that is no longer..

But it has been replaced with the loving memories w/ my sister.

PS

yes you are still working things out. But among other things you are doing well, you are not rushing TO DO "something"..."anything"

b/c the papers won't necessarily give you closure or get you moving forward.

Not sure what will, but it seems to me that's your choice, right? I mean, will the taking of a pen and signing of a paper, do it for you? Will a gavel banging?

I'm a L and I get a lot of symbolism from things like that.

For ME, the signature and or a gavel banging (not likely to hear it, btw)

WOULD probably be enough of a "ritual" to make me "feel" something had changed.

What do you think would help you?

Thanks for the question.. as always - it prompts lots of thinking.

I do NOT think signing the document will give me closure.

At this time, in my heart - I feel I will get closure in God's time. To me, that will be when w is on her making amends step and God has laid it on her heart to make amends to me.

I do not feel this time is now.. or any time in NEAR Future. Two reasons:

1) I see very little changes in her when it comes to her interactions with me. She says she works on stuff - but I don't really benefit from that. She feels like the same ole w. I don't know why this is and there can be a million reasons.. so I don't dwell on it too much.

2) (And more importantly) - I don't think my heart is open to it yet.

I know I am forgiving her but my heart is still wounded. If she were to talk to me now.. I don't feel I would have the closure, because I am not healed.. and because I still am holding onto things.

I know this because I have negative thoughts when I hear people say they are working a 12 step program.

I know this because I have yet to be TRULY happy that she has been in the program for 2 yrs....

... because although I know it's not to blame, I still want to put blame there.

Because of what I lost.

But God is working on me there too - I now have someone who I have distanced myself from because I was emotionally attaching to them in an unhealthy way.

And although I do not think that is what W did to me... I know that I am hurting my friend because I am trying to take care of myself.

And because of the similarities between the two - I am working through some of the pain in my w's choice. I'm letting go of the anger.. slowly but it's happening.

So when the time is right... when we are both ready.. we will have closure.

So what will signing the papers bring?

I don't know.. and that's scary. But it's my hope that it will just mean I can let go. And I can live.

There will be no more communication and although I don' want that.. it has to be better than all the feelings that come up for me when we talk..

I don't want to assume she is manipulating me because I have stripped her of all the control she once had over me. Nor do I wish to push myself to stop thinking that way because after all she is in a program!

I don't want to battle taking the higher road with my urge to stop the passive aggressive comments and to say what I wished I would have said in my M.

I just want to live and have normal conversations. I'm very open. I like expressing my feelings and hearing the feelings of others.

I don't like passive aggressive communication, but yet I'm not a fan of pointing out people's flaws either.

There is a fine line of being loving to people and setting boundaries... and I struggle with her so much in that regards...

Does that make sense? I know it may sound like I'm giving up.. but it's not that. I just want to be myself 100% and I feel like I can't do that with her..

Whether that be because I still want to have a M, because of fear that I will fall back into my old ways - I don't know.

But I worry about it constantly with every interaction (which very few now a days).. and I'm done with it.

I want the papers signed to help me let go of any hope.

I have found myself having feelings for other people.. even find myself blushing when I am asked on dates.

..yet it is immediately followed by a dream about my w and I wake up profoundly sad that we are here... and I want her back.

I don't like this stage. This stage of being excited about the endless opportunities that are coming my way - but know I still deeply love her.

and until the papers are signed... I fear I will always stay committed to that love.

I feel like I'm out of options. I've been on quite a journey the past 20 months and have grown and worked and pushed myself..

... yet I haven't fully detached. There is still a part of me that hopes she notices me or will change her mind.

And I don't know if that's my CoDe or just a person who is still healing...

... but I don't want it anymore. I want to detach fully.

.. I don't know what else to do.... but sign.

[25yearsmlc]

So, a Tattoo huh?

That's gonna leave a mark...

HA - It did indeed. It's quite a beautiful one too. Leave it to me to go big and intricate on my 1st one.

I don't think I will regret my trip either. I get worried about money from time to time but that's what my savings are for. All this money that I saved for owning a place/first kid with the w.. is for a dream that is no longer..

But it has been replaced with the loving memories w/ my sister.

sweet truth^^

PS

yes you are still working things out. But among other things you are doing well, you are not rushing TO DO "something"..."anything"

b/c the papers won't necessarily give you closure or get you moving forward.

Not sure what will, but it seems to me that's your choice, right? I mean, will the taking of a pen and signing of a paper, do it for you? Will a gavel banging?

I'm a L and I get a lot of symbolism from things like that.

For ME, the signature and or a gavel banging (not likely to hear it, btw)

WOULD probably be enough of a "ritual" to make me "feel" something had changed.

What do you think would help you?

Thanks for the question.. as always - it prompts lots of thinking.

I do NOT think signing the document will give me closure.


but later on you suggest that it will, or at leasst it'll start the process. Either way, sounds like you do have expectations of a pen, ( that works).


At this time, in my heart - I feel I will get closure in God's time. To me, that will be when w is on her making amends step and God has laid it on her heart to make amends to me.

Amen to the first sentence highlighted...."Yikes" to the second one!

There, You are putting YOUR sense of closure in your life, and the catalyst for change in YOUR life, on HER actions...that's a lot of power to still give her.

Did it ever really belong to her?

I do not feel this time is now.. or any time in NEAR Future. Two reasons:


1) I see very little changes in her when it comes to her interactions with me. She says she works on stuff - but I don't really benefit from that.


Part of me wants to say "so what?" B/c aside from making this all about YOU and how SHE ought to be making these change to your r, or in her, FOR YOU to "benefit from that"...all of which is self centered and more of the "up to HER if I can be happy/get closure"...it also means YOU can DO nothing "Until SHE"....

does/acts/changes. If SHE never changes and is always out there and even worse, let's say SHE worsens and becomes a nasty mean spirited person.

Does that mean you won't be able to get closure until IF and WHEN SHE does something else?

I am surprised by this revelation but glad you shared it. What am I not getting?

She feels like the same ole w. I don't know why this is and there can be a million reasons.. so I don't dwell on it too much.


Dwelling on it at all is a bit much NOW.

Plus it would only confirm (for me) that th right thing happened, i.e., someone with some serious flaws who held me back

and for whom I could've been more supportive, is out of your life.

You withhold forward movement b/c of it ^^.

2) (And more importantly) - I don't think my heart is open to it yet.

I know I am forgiving her

how do you "know" this?

but my heart is still wounded. If she were to talk to me now.. I don't feel I would have the closure, because I am not healed.. and because I still am holding onto things.


Ah it's up to YOU to let go and forgive, regardless of whether she asks for OR "deserves it" or talks to you. Do you get that? Do you see this reality as true AND if so, do you see how empowering it is for YOU?

Soon enough you'll see real forgiveness as a gift you grab for yourself. Don't hold onto the pain of it all, please...for your sake more than hers.

You have made all of your pain something SHE is to carry, but really, that's the equivalent of

"Holding onto anger to 'punish' someone else, which is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."

Does not work.

You have to own this choice of staying stuck waiting on her, waiting for you to not be angry , waiting for closure and it all depends on what "SHE does/says" . That's no way to live. And we both know that you know this.
[color:#990000]
Maybe what you are really saying is, "I still hurt! I KNOW, (cognitively) it may not be totally fair or totally healthy, but for now I'd like to keep this as w's fault. Thank you, ladies & gentlemen"...

[/color]
I know this because I have negative thoughts when I hear people say they are working a 12 step program.

I know this because I have yet to be TRULY happy that she has been in the program for 2 yrs....

... because although I know it's not to blame, I still want to put blame there.

Because of what I lost.

so "because of what" you lost, you still blame and you feel it's just fine to live that way..

But do You think there is nothing YOU can do to repair that?

Surely you know, cognitively, it's not making a lot of sense, although I think I get it.

When your w FINALLY wakes up to her issues, she decides only then, after you've endured all the super fun parts of m to her, she changes for the better

ONLY to decide/discover, that she does not benefit from being around you so much. Is that a decent re-cap?


But God is working on me there too - I now have someone who I have distanced myself from because I was emotionally attaching to them in an unhealthy way.

Great stuff, ^^ good digging deep and finding what we are not crazy about but which we have to "man up" and do...


And although I do not think that is what W did to me... I know that I am hurting my friend because I am trying to take care of myself.

And because of the similarities between the two - I am working through some of the pain in my w's choice. I'm letting go of the anger.. slowly but it's happening.

So when the time is right... when we are both ready.. we will have closure.


YOU can and will gain closure of some sort when YOU choose. I don't know about the "we" part, with you and her both feeling it. Alas, She's not your responsibility.

So what will signing the papers bring?

I don't know.. and that's scary. But it's my hope that it will just mean I can let go. And I can live.

it'll mean at least that. AND it'll mean she can stare at a tangible item symbolizing YOUR freedom and hers. And if one of the things she needed was the time/space for you feel loss AND for HER to feel "something" than she will.


There will be no more communication and although I don' want that.. it has to be better than all the feelings that come up for me when we talk..

I don't want to assume she is manipulating me


She cannot manipulate you - unless you consent. Period. When you consent then it's NOT manipulation; it's you agreeing to something you probably do not "want" to do but you were too afraid to face the "consequenes" of saying 'no' and her rejecting you....



because I have stripped her of all the control she once had over me. Nor do I wish to push myself to stop thinking that way because after all she is in a program!

I don't want to battle taking the higher road with my urge to stop the passive aggressive comments and to say what I wished I would have HAD said in my M.

I just want to live and have normal conversations. I'm very open. I like expressing my feelings and hearing the feelings of others.

I don't like passive aggressive communication, but yet I'm not a fan of pointing out people's flaws either.

Good Lord let's hope there are other options! One of my brothers went thru a phase in which he believed "truth is an absolute" and

that it was a virtue and a force of good...okay fair enough. At first glance...

b/c THEN he also decided to share ALL his opinions regardess of whether they stung too much, hurt someone, or if the timing of it all was poor.

So when our sister asked us, on her wedding day, if her weight gain was noticeable, I was able to say "NO it's not...and "yes, I swear to God" and I hope he forgave me for "lying" but my gut says "yes he will forgive".

telling someone about a flaw of theirs they don't see OR WORSE, that they cannot change, is a waste of your energy, and worse than that too...

\

There is a fine line of being loving to people and setting boundaries... and I struggle with her so much in that regards...

Does that make sense? I know it may sound like I'm giving up.. but it's not that. I just want to be myself 100% and I feel like I can't do that with her..

Whether that be because I still want to have a M, because of fear that I will fall back into my old ways - I don't know.

But I worry about it constantly with every interaction (which very few now a days).. and I'm done with it.

I want the papers signed to help me let go of any hope.

while still knowing it COULD still be restored!!

I have those rascal relatives of mine who remarried their exes...it happens!


I have found myself having feelings for other people.. even find myself blushing when I am asked on dates.

..yet it is immediately followed by a dream about my w and I wake up profoundly sad that we are here... and I want her back.

I don't like this stage. This stage of being excited about the endless opportunities that are coming my way - but know I still deeply love her.

and until the papers are signed... I fear I will always stay committed to that love.

I feel like I'm out of options. I've been on quite a journey the past 20 months and have grown and worked and pushed myself..


I agree that you've been on "quite a journey" and b/c of THAT, I don't believe you are out of options.

... yet I haven't fully detached. There is still a part of me that hopes she notices me or will change her mind.
And I don't know if that's my CoDe or just a person who is still healing...


or both

... but I don't want it anymore. I want to detach fully.

.. I don't know what else to do.... but sign.

Correct. You can sign with acceptance and some remorse that you "own," OR with great fury and stomping your feet. But don't ever take on the failure of the marriage in toto.

I'll post a short piece on detachment that might help you get on the right track.

All my best to you.

BTW, I've been up late writing a legal brief, (aka an oxymoron) the past 2 nights. Please forgive the typos or lack of clarity wherever it pops up. Always SEEMED relevant when I wrote it.

and do check out the following attachment on detachment. It is short but there are many around herel

(((( !! ))))

[25yearsmlc]

You said you want to detach fully. When you do you will very likely Not need to see your w or hear her make the changes you think she needs to make.

IT's not about her anymore, and maybe never was...


"This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back."

It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."

[heartbrokeinsd]

ok..this ^^^^^ i needed to hear today.

[2chiquitos]

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back."
[b]

This is where I'm stuck... I find myself pulling back because he's still seeing OW. I'm not in the mindset of LRT, more anger.
Thanks for this MLC. Puts things into perspective

[Valeska19]

You make sense 25. Thanks for sacrificing some sleep to post to me. I always feel like you respond right when I need a little push.

Part of me wants to say "so what?" B/c aside from making this all about YOU and how SHE ought to be making these change to your r, or in her, FOR YOU to "benefit from that"...all of which is self centered and more of the "up to HER if I can be happy/get closure"...it also means YOU can DO nothing "Until SHE"....

does/acts/changes. If SHE never changes and is always out there and even worse, let's say SHE worsens and becomes a nasty mean spirited person.

Does that mean you won't be able to get closure until IF and WHEN SHE does something else?

I am surprised by this revelation but glad you shared it. What am I not getting?

I don't think there is nothing your NOT getting. You are just showing me that I need to keep working on myself.

When we separated, alot of things were revealed to me about my relationship.

A big part of it was how much she put me down. How.. because she was uncomfortable in her own skin.. whether being gay or heavy.. I had to be brought down with her.

And I know that I have talked and talked about this issue.. but man it still comes up. I still get side-swiped by emotions and realizations that my wife didn't necessarily treat me right.

I mean - who cries because a person (who I know loves me) says she wants me to change my music...

..... because my w would always tell me electronica was crap. She would immediately turn off the radio, or make fun of it and me.

So in my journey now - closure looks like her apologizing for all of that. For her taking her baggage out on me for all of these years.

And I get that it's silly and that it is really not needed for closure.

It's just hard that when you have wanted approval or positive reinforcement from someone so long....

.. it's a COMPLETE retraining of MY MIND. I've spent 9 yrs in this dynamic (maybe longer), breaking it isn't easy.

-----

On everything else - you are completely right. I am stuck because I CHOOSE to be.

I CHOOSE to wait.

I CHOOSE to not move forward.

I hold all the cards in MY life and I DO allow HER to play them.

It's silly and not something I want...

And you're right I'm NOT out of options.. I'm just not sure what to try.

I've given a night of thought to it: Here are some good moving forward steps for me... I think

1. Separate my car insurance (working on)
2. Email her all the pics/documents that are still on my computer that are hers.
3. Sign the papers.
4. Move into a different apartment (The break-up apartment sukks my energy)
5. Eventually get a new car. I was given her "hand me down" - I was always told that's what I would get.

I MAY add a 6th - getting off facebook.

As you all know - I deleted my wife months ago. Recently she started commenting alot our on mutual friends' status but only the friends that I've been hanging out with on a regular basis.

No big deal...

..until last night when she commented on my best friend's status.

My w was never really close to my best friend.. and my w knows that she is my best friend now since our S.

I don't have any control over my w.

.. and I refuse to make my friends choose between us.

So it's up to me.. and I think staying off facebook is best.

I don't know why she felt compelled to comment on the posts of my close friends right now...

... but I DO know that the only way she is seeing their posts is because she is actively looking at their feeds.

So in a way she is watching me... and so I need to stop posting...

.. because If I believe that I still do things to get her attention, then I know I will stop posting just for me and to get her to see me...

.. and that is dangerous.

[~ kd ~]

..... because my w would always tell me electronica was crap.

errrmmm... electronica IS NOT crap... in the same way that Tori is not crap, and Poe is not crap... and... and...

holy geesus... Bif Naked is definitely not crap... she's hot!