So I figured it was time for a new subject header. The old one really didn't seem to fit anymore given where (and to a lesser extent who) I was when I started it.
Unlearning - the beginner's mind. I stopped looking at my w for answers and started looking at me. I opened my eyes to the fact that what was modeled for me as a child doesn't work for my R with my w. I rejected what didn't work and continue to do my best to work on what does.
Learning. I listened for a change - not just to what my wife had been saying, but to people here on the boards that have walked this journey before me. In doing so, I realized that what I thought was important wasn't as important....what I thought was right was actually wrong.....that people need to be loved in the way they need to be loved - not the way I thought they needed it.
Doing it differently. Now, I stop and think more before I speak. I try to validate instead of defend, and I try to really think about my first reaction to something emotional - as it tends to be wrong a lot.
All of these things have helped save me quite a bit. I am far from being a vet or a great DB'er - but it has helped me get closer to a center. And, honestly, relative to where I was 7 or 8 months ago it has vastly improved the conditions between my w and me. Sure, the D is still pending - but we are listening to one another. We are trying to communicate more openly, and I am trying to use new skills to set the table for a better future - hopefully with her, but if not - with someone else.
So.....what's been going on the last few weeks?
Not a lot has changed. We continue to talk, text and e-mail. It's all friendly, kind and supportive - never anything negative. Can't remember if I said this is my last post or not - but she texted "I am sorry for all of the pain I have caused you" out of the blue two weeks ago. I know that is not saying "let's get back together" - but at least it is honest communication. She has also told me that I am handsome and a good father. I needed the ego boost - frankly. I am not crowing about it - but it just kinda soothed some of the pain and worthlessness I had been carrying around.
We continue to go to church. Sometimes she isn't there - but I go anyway and take our son. It's a good way to "share" him when the other doesn't have custody that weekend.
She is opening up to me more. Today she shared with me that she is having a hard time hearing about people's second pregnancies, seeing families, seeing people post info about babies/siblings/families. She has two good friends that arrived in town tonight and she said she has a certain amount of angst there because the can't really relate to her life right now. That they have their families/homes/lives in tact. Again, it's no symbol that we are getting back together anytime soon - but it's good that she is opening up to me little by little. I guess that's what happens when you just decided to listen and validate. I wish I would have known earlier.
Our remaining embryo is still an occasional topic of discussion. She still has a desire to use it (she expressed that this week) and said it something she would rather do sooner than later. I still conceptually struggle with this - doing it post-divorce. But I am keeping my mind open and not shutting her opinion out 100% - that is a 180 for me when I have a dissenting opinion.
Last weekend after dinner, she said something rather interesting. "You know, Crimson - all my life I thought I would be able to 'outsmart' the dysfunction I witnessed in my parents relationship - the lack of communication and other things - I guess I didn't". It was a nice, honest exchange about some of our shortcomings that we shared.
She has been texting pictures of the baby from his early days and we have been sharing good memories from that period. I always enjoy that - sometimes I feel as if she doesn't have a single good memory of me left in her head, but she still hold on to pictures and things. In fact, I was at her condo earlier this week dropping of S and she has one of my baby pictures (2-3 years old) hanging in his bedroom in a big frame on the wall. Not gonna lie, I was kinda touched by that.
She has been sharing work stress and other professional insecurities that she has been experiencing. I listen, validate and try to be supportive and build her up as best I can. Not in a "pursuing" way, but in a generally encouraging, reassuring way.
She has also been more forthcoming about some of the things that made her unhappy that I did after she dropped the bomb. Keep in mind that this was in my pre DB days, but I reached out to some of my friends with concerns about her and she let me know that she feels it has impacted some of those friendships and that she never would have done that to me. She said "I don't need reasons, rationalizations or excuses (from you, Crimson) - I'm just trying to work on communicating feelings, even if they are unpleasant".
So even though things aren't "great" they are better. It has required some radical changes in approach and thinking from me - and I am not quite "there" yet - but I have made a pretty big dent in the old Crimson that I think is here for good....at least I hope so. I still don't want the D, and it will be emotionally hard on me - but if it comes, it comes. I will keep working even after the gavel falls.
Tonight my anxiety comes from her friends being in town. I never really felt they liked me in the first place and I fear that it's going to turn into a "you are right to leave him...you need to start over and get a new life" kind of weekend. I KNOW that a lot of that is in my head - but I really don't want them to make matter worse in my situation, and I feel that they are capable. I have not and will not share this fear with my w, and I will "as if" should our paths happen to cross this weekend - but I do fear that I will get trashed kind of badly by them. Meh - no matter.
I was just about to pat you on the back and suggest you continue doing what you are doing, and then I see this.....
Quote:
"Tonight my anxiety comes from her friends being in town. I never really felt they liked me in the first place and I fear that it's going to turn into a "you are right to leave him...you need to start over and get a new life" kind of weekend. I KNOW that a lot of that is in my head - but I really don't want them to make matter worse in my situation, and I feel that they are capable."
You've got to know that there are others who have already put a bug in your W's ear about what she should do. So why would these friends influence be any different?
You sound like you are getting better at detaching but then you allow your mind to go places that are dark and scary. Why? Let it go! Your W is an intelligent woman. She is perfectly capable of making choices for herself. Give her credit for reengaging with you in the way that she has. It she decides to recommit to the M it will be because she decided to and not because some friend told her she should.
Get rid of the negative thoughts and keep your focus.
You'll be fine!
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
2TP - First, let me say that I am stoked that my mind goes there from time to time and gets lost in fear and insecurity. In posting it, I am trying to adhere to my policy of being as honest as I can - though it is often embarrassing. That said, I will take an equally honest stab at answering the questions you posed.
1. Why would these friends influence be any different
I perceive it that way (perhaps erroneously) because they are her oldest friends, dating back to middle school practically. It's quite literally her inner-inner circle in many regards. They have gone out of their way before to try to set her up with other people while we were dating. So in my head (I'll repeat - in my head) I have a hard time imagining that they would be supportive of me or our marriage in these circumstances.
2. Why do I keep letting my mind go to dark scary place?
It is happening less and less, but I do get lost in my head and anxiety from time to time. Just plain old fear of the unknown future and losing my family. It has gotten better over time, but I am not 100% through it yet. Working on it.
Embarrassing to admit ^^^^, but true. Still I am proud of the progress that I have made and the work I have done so far. I have exercised a lot of the negative thoughts, but there are still elements of the divorce that I am terrified of and struggling to grasp.
The positives outweigh the negatives, but I am still trying to get the negatives out of my mind.
W dropped by the house to drop off S so she and her friends could go to dinner yesterday evening. She came to the door and her friends stayed in the car - I think she could tell I was a little nervous. I went out into the driveway to greet them - had a nice little visit.
Later after they left w texted me from dinner and said that I "underestimate her ability to choose quality friends" and that they have no ill feelings towards me. I apologized and told her I was having a bit of a rough day (which was true). Surprisingly enough - she responded "what can I do to help?". I really didn't respond because frankly, I didn't have an answer for her. About an hour later I took S to get some ice-cream and w texted a picture of herself and her friends at dinner to me. Didn't know what to say to that either - so I didn't say anything at all. Not out of spite or anything - just didn't. I few hours later I picked up my phone to reply to the pic and my w texts "Helloooo?" at the exact same time. I set the phone right back down and didn't respond. Much later I just said "Looking good, ladies - hope the night is going well". That was it. I wasn't angry, bitter or anything - I was just in an odd funk.
For a fleeting second, I almost felt like she was concerned about my feelings. Not to sound snarky at all, but wow...that would be new if the case.
So I figured it was time for a new subject header. The old one really didn't seem to fit anymore given where (and to a lesser extent who) I was when I started it.
Unlearning - the beginner's mind. I stopped looking at my w for answers and started looking at me. I opened my eyes to the fact that what was modeled for me as a child doesn't work for my R with my w. I rejected what didn't work and continue to do my best to work on what does.
Learning. I listened for a change - not just to what my wife had been saying, but to people here on the boards that have walked this journey before me. In doing so, I realized that what I thought was important wasn't as important....what I thought was right was actually wrong.....that people need to be loved in the way they need to be loved - not the way I thought they needed it.
Doing it differently. Now, I stop and think more before I speak. I try to validate instead of defend, and I try to really think about my first reaction to something emotional - as it tends to be wrong a lot.
All of these things have helped save me quite a bit. I am far from being a vet or a great DB'er - but it has helped me get closer to a center. And, honestly, relative to where I was 7 or 8 months ago it has vastly improved the conditions between my w and me. Sure, the D is still pending - but we are listening to one another. We are trying to communicate more openly, and I am trying to use new skills to set the table for a better future - hopefully with her, but if not - with someone else.
So.....what's been going on the last few weeks?
Not a lot has changed. We continue to talk, text and e-mail. It's all friendly, kind and supportive - never anything negative. Can't remember if I said this is my last post or not - but she texted "I am sorry for all of the pain I have caused you" out of the blue two weeks ago. I know that is not saying "let's get back together" - but at least it is honest communication. She has also told me that I am handsome and a good father. I needed the ego boost - frankly. I am not crowing about it - but it just kinda soothed some of the pain and worthlessness I had been carrying around.
We continue to go to church. Sometimes she isn't there - but I go anyway and take our son. It's a good way to "share" him when the other doesn't have custody that weekend.
She is opening up to me more. Today she shared with me that she is having a hard time hearing about people's second pregnancies, seeing families, seeing people post info about babies/siblings/families. She has two good friends that arrived in town tonight and she said she has a certain amount of angst there because the can't really relate to her life right now. That they have their families/homes/lives in tact. Again, it's no symbol that we are getting back together anytime soon - but it's good that she is opening up to me little by little. I guess that's what happens when you just decided to listen and validate. I wish I would have known earlier.
Our remaining embryo is still an occasional topic of discussion. She still has a desire to use it (she expressed that this week) and said it something she would rather do sooner than later. I still conceptually struggle with this - doing it post-divorce. But I am keeping my mind open and not shutting her opinion out 100% - that is a 180 for me when I have a dissenting opinion.
Last weekend after dinner, she said something rather interesting. "You know, Crimson - all my life I thought I would be able to 'outsmart' the dysfunction I witnessed in my parents relationship - the lack of communication and other things - I guess I didn't". It was a nice, honest exchange about some of our shortcomings that we shared.
She has been texting pictures of the baby from his early days and we have been sharing good memories from that period. I always enjoy that - sometimes I feel as if she doesn't have a single good memory of me left in her head, but she still hold on to pictures and things. In fact, I was at her condo earlier this week dropping of S and she has one of my baby pictures (2-3 years old) hanging in his bedroom in a big frame on the wall. Not gonna lie, I was kinda touched by that.
She has been sharing work stress and other professional insecurities that she has been experiencing. I listen, validate and try to be supportive and build her up as best I can. Not in a "pursuing" way, but in a generally encouraging, reassuring way.
She has also been more forthcoming about some of the things that made her unhappy that I did after she dropped the bomb. Keep in mind that this was in my pre DB days, but I reached out to some of my friends with concerns about her and she let me know that she feels it has impacted some of those friendships and that she never would have done that to me. She said "I don't need reasons, rationalizations or excuses (from you, Crimson) - I'm just trying to work on communicating feelings, even if they are unpleasant".
So even though things aren't "great" they are better. It has required some radical changes in approach and thinking from me - and I am not quite "there" yet - but I have made a pretty big dent in the old Crimson that I think is here for good....at least I hope so. I still don't want the D, and it will be emotionally hard on me - but if it comes, it comes. I will keep working even after the gavel falls.
Tonight my anxiety comes from her friends being in town. I never really felt they liked me in the first place and I fear that it's going to turn into a "you are right to leave him...you need to start over and get a new life" kind of weekend. I KNOW that a lot of that is in my head - but I really don't want them to make matter worse in my situation, and I feel that they are capable. I have not and will not share this fear with my w, and I will "as if" should our paths happen to cross this weekend - but I do fear that I will get trashed kind of badly by them. Meh - no matter.
Hope everyone is doing well -
You pal,
Crimson
Crimson,
I've followed your sitch from the beginning, back in my lurking days long before I joined this community.
I want you to know I have learned so much from following your situation.
This is such an inspirational post. Thank you for sharing.
M:36 WAH:41 M:16 T:17 D:12 SS:21 Bomb: IDLY 10/29/11 Separated same day, about an hour after the bomb.
Hey Dory - glad my seemingly endless rambling has been able to help you in your situation. Certainly has been a long journey so far for me - inward.
Still not really sure if it will end in R with W - I hope so, but the waters are still a tad murky. Nonetheless, we are doing better than we were a few months back.
Probably on the verge of a posting-spree. Seems to happen when my level of anxiety raises a bit.
So things seem to be going OK in terms of us getting a long. She has even showed faint signs of caring - and DEFINITE signs of trying to improve communication. But still no signs of wanting to R much - well, that I can tell anyway. Trying to remain consistent and upbeat, but it is getting a tad more difficult as time presses on.
So I went to dinner tonight with W and S - her idea. We had a pretty good time together - R talk came up - not my doing. She knew I was having a slightly rough weekend and she asked if it was about the D and if I ever get mad at her. I said no. She DID say that the D is probably going to happen. No shocker there, but still hard to hear.
Regarding dating and such she said "you set the bar pretty high". I asked what she meant and she said that "there aren't a lot of guys out there like you". Half joking, half not - I said that there's me sitting right here. She responded "yes, but we have major issues". She said she was open to working on them - I just said so was I.
I will never understand. How can she be so complimentary like that, that I am "so handsome", such a good father, "set the bar so high" - and yet say that the divorce is "probably" going to happen and that we have major issues. I don't think any of our problems are/were out of the ordinary for couples in our position. I guess I define "major" as something very different.
I am still sticking by my changes no matter what. And if she does not want to be with me, then I guess it is her loss. I am a good man that made stupid relationship mistakes - not out of hate, not out of malice, but because I simply did not know. It was never because of a lack of love. My heart hopes that she can see that and forgive and be willing to try again.....but I can;t control it. It breaks my heart, but there is nothing I can do.
Regarding dating and such she said "you set the bar pretty high". I asked what she meant and she said that "there aren't a lot of guys out there like you". Half joking, half not - I said that there's me sitting right here. She responded "yes, but we have major issues". She said she was open to working on them - I just said so was I.
I will never understand. How can she be so complimentary like that, that I am "so handsome", such a good father, "set the bar so high" - and yet say that the divorce is "probably" going to happen and that we have major issues. I don't think any of our problems are/were out of the ordinary for couples in our position. I guess I define "major" as something very different. Crimson
Hi Crimson,
At the risk of being 2x4'ed for focusing on the detail of what she said (!) I'd like to point out another perspective. You are looking at the issue of what constitutes 'major' issues.
For mine, she is still in the mindset that your issues are ongoing. That is, she is saying "We have issues" (present tense).
You know, from all the work that you've been doing, that these issues are something that can be/have been changed.
She's not there yet.
And it's unlikely that you can do much more than you're doing - it's going to be a matter of time. When she sees that the issues don't come up any more, she will start to trust that you can be together again.
Interesting way to look at it, and I can see your point. I guess I just lose faith that she will ever see and believe that what I have done in terms of changing is real and not a ploy. It hurts that she seems to still have no faith in me in spite of the work that I have done. I know that it is my own fault that she doesn't trust - for all the same reasons that she is a WAW. I, in the past, have given her every reason to not believe me through my blindness and inability to see how my actions had hurt her. Some guess now I am reaping what I sowed.
I hope you are right, NLW. I hope that one day she will start to trust me again. Maybe tonight I am feeling more hopeless than normal, but it just seems like she never will again from where I am sitting right now.
