My Story So Far. Is this even worth saving?

[25yearsmlc]

Timbits,

I hope you can handle some feedback meant to challenge some of your present approach...b/c I think you might be off track here.

I say this b/c i think there's a great chance to save this m but most of it will have to come from YOU and that means digging deep to see your role in this...

OK, Part 2:
Anyway, I sent OW the email to never call that number again and I also then sat down and wrote H a letter. I told him that I needed 4 things that were the absolute minimum to stay married.
1. No contact with OW ever. For anything. Ignore emails, phonecalls, if you see her in person not even a nod hello.
2. He do everything the MC recommends, including getting IC for himself. I'm getting back to my own IC to deal with my own issues.


what are your issues, other than not taking care of yourself and the sexual issues? AND Do you really get how important those two things are IN a marriage?

Do you think a man in his 20s should give up on having a sex life b/c his wife was abused as a child? No offense, but really ponder that.

OR should she get enough help so that the abuse she had as a child does not last decades into her marriage - and hurt it and hurt the man she loves? Whatever the reason, that's a lot of rejection for him to feel and if you add to that, his unemployment which most men feel bad about, I can easily see why his ego was so bruised.

And isn't he writing a book? I mean he's not exactly sleeping all day, right? He IS working but not getting paid, correct? Has the publisher advanced him any money?



3. He get a job within 30 days. I can't handle the stress of being the only worker in the house. And he has too much free time on his hands to obsess about OW. It's time he started helping me support the household.

see above


4. That we move from our current place (his parent's basemente apt for cheap rent) by the end of November at the latest. I'm not spending another Christmas there.

Fair enough. Is this something HE wanted, ie live in his parent's basement?

I told him that there were other things I wanted, but these were the minimum and if he couldn't do that, the least he could do would be to tell me now so I could pick up the pieces and move on.

what did he say HE wanted in order to stay married?

Were HIS needs addressed b/c if they are not, won't you be in the same situation again?


That afternoon, he drove out to the office (45 minutes away) with flowers and a card. He said in the card that he made a huge mistake and that he felt like our marriage was becoming a friendship only. He felt that because of the lack of intimacy, he needed to have that need met elsewhere. I left the office (it was closing time, anyway) and we drove in seperate vehicles. When we got home, we took one vehicle and went to the parking lot of our favourite restaurant. And we talked. We really talked.

He told me the truth. That he did have feelings for OW, that they had kissed on several occasions and, while they didn't have sex (she had 3 kids and they made it difficult), if the opportunity arose, they would have done so. He said that he felt like he couldn't tell me the truth. True, I had gotten upset before, but I am fairly rational and calm. I was more angry that he LIED to me than by what he did. I told him that I was happy he told me the truth. He agreed that he can't have the two of us in his life and that he chose me. He wanted to be with me. That we both needed to work on issues, but he had a lot of his own and he acknowledged that he was most of the problem. He agreed that he has problems communicating with me and lying to me because he's afraid of my reaction.

do you see any role YOU play in his fears?

Meaning, you over react and that creates in him the "need" to lie...if that is true, then don't you own some of this?


Honestly, both he and I feel like he had a mlc (he's not even 30 yet, but he said that he's afraid he's getting older and missed out on a lot). I feel like I love him and want to save the marriage, but this feels like he spit in my face.


really? How so? What are you talking about? He just apologized, took more of the responsibility OR ALL of it, and he made gestures to reconcile.

But you still want to be angry, right? And you want to be "right", (but not necessarily "happy").
If you hold this over his head like the sword of Damacles or throw it in his face whenever you want,

OR IF HE BELIEVES YOU WILL NOT GET PAST IT...and you don't seem to want to...

then why bother pretending to try?


And that if he wants me to be comfortable with being intimate, I need to TRUST him. I don't trust him right now. I don't know if I can get there.

but you had intimacy problems BEFORE this, which probably caused HIM PAIN and feelings of rejection... so how does this work now? what is he supposed to do to gain the trust so you can feel fine physically and sexually, when you didn't feel it before?

You admitted you gained a lot of weight (so you probably don't feel super sexy??)

and you admitted you have had a problem with intimacy since before you met him...So this cycle from which HE cannot escape or win is going to be a huge challenge for him and you...

imo you have to make some changes in YOU for him to feel motivated to "earn" the trust. This is an unhealthy dynamic for both.

So what I've done so far is continue my MC sessions and I've started using the 37 rules for the 180. I used to call him a lot when I was at work. I've stopped doing that. He now calls me. I am also starting to watch my diet and go to the gym again.

great. Anything for health reasons that also look good, are excellent win wins...

I'm also focusing on doing things I want to do. I want to go to a movie and H isn't in the mood? I'll go by myself. If I want to go to the gym and H is too tired? I'll go by myself.

I think he feels everything is blown over and is fine, but honestly, I'm still hurting. I feel really angry with him over it. I love him more than anything, but I can't help but feel like he takes me for granted. Well, being a martyr is not fun.

so don't be a martyr. It's not attractive. Or Are you saying YOU are the martyr or he is?

So I'm not going to allow it any more. I'm going to take care of myself and improve myself and GAL. If he isn't willing to put me first in his life, I'll just have to do it for myself.

is he first in your life? Has he been before? I mean, telling a man you have "intimacy issues" and then not taking care of your appearance is a lot for a man to handle at such a young age, especially without kids.

I don't know what your arrangement was about the book and money but I assume you discussed it. However you sound very resentful of him.

Is it possible that some of your anger affected your sexual desire?

Or the tendency you had to NOT work so much at the marital issues, and to sweep them away b/c you are "so exhausted" after work?
Do you know what I'm asking you?

Basically hoping you can dig a lot deeper to find your stuff in all this.

I think there is a lot you don't want to see here..too bad. B/C the real way for you to feel empowered and loved in this marriage is for you to face some of your own stuff.

If you're going to be in this painful ordeal anyhow, called DBing, marriage crisis, etc...you may as well grow from it.

It's the one upside to it all. Be brave. The real journey in life is an inward one. So dig deep. It's worth it.

[timbits]

I have come a LONG way with my intimacy issues. I know I'm not perfect in that sense, but it was really hard for me when a big issue is trust and I don't feel like I can trust him. I have had these issues far before we married and he knew about them and we worked around it. He isn't celibate, without getting into too many details.

He isn't writing a book now. It was finished over a year ago. He's been editing, but this has included him just doing editing a few nights a month. We have never discussed the money that he will get from the book. Basically, my money is his money and vice versa. Any money either of us earns is deposited in our joint account. The only difference is if he wins a contest or I win a sales contest at work and get a prepaid visa. Then we get to spend it on whatever we want as it is extra money that didn't come from our regular budget.

I don't feel that I need to be right. I just feel that he has to understand he hurt me. And he hasn't, until recently, accepted responsibility for what happend. He made plenty of excuses as to why it was an affair, how it was different, blah blah blah. Only within the last 30 days has he been able to admit it was inappropriate and he cheated on me. I am learning to forgive him, but I'm not going to pretend that everything is hunky dory and I'm fine. And I'm incapable of hopping in the sack with him to satisfy his needs when so little of mine are even being acknowledged.

Right now I am taking care of myself. I am working on intimacy. But that is a two way street and the damage he caused by his affair is not something I can just get over. I'm not able to do that to save the marriage. I can work on it, yes, but I can't fake it and make it happen. It's too painful.

H has ALWAYS been first in my life. I have always put his needs first. That's why this is so painful. I have supported him, I have helped him, I have always put the M before everything else. That's why this hurts me so badly and I'm wondering if I really should bother any more. If you burn your hand repeatedly on a stove, you don't put it back to see if the stove has "changed".

His only requirements for the M were physical intimacy. I know how that feels to a man not to have it. I'm really working on this. I'm seeing a therapist and H and I have had some relations, so to speak, on a more regular basis. Part of the problem of having PTSD is that if I push myself too much all at once, it can backfire. I need to gently push my own boundaries each time. It's very hard to determine what is normal anxiety and what is pushing myself too far.

I do resent H. And I'm not being a martyr any more. It's not helpful for anyone. I own what I've done to get this marriage to this point, but I need to feel that he does, too. He has started, which is helping. Things are a lot less tense at home. I'm feeling like I'm cooling down, though. I feel like I'm pulling back and am questioning if I really want to stay married. I really think I do because the thought of divorcing H makes me feel sick.

I guess what I really want is a marriage that isn't as stressful. I always heard that marriage takes work, but never really understood what that meant until now. Is it possible to have a happy marriage or is it always this painful?

[AprilT]

Timbits....is the thought of D making you sick, or the thought of being without him making you sick? There is a difference. Often times we cannot imagine a life without the other person because it is all we have know for some time. Only YOU can decide what is best for you.

[timbits]

Being without him makes me feel sick. I love him so much. I'm just so hurt. It's like the two emotions are battling it out in my head and making me confused. I guess if I didn't really love him, it wouldn't really hurt me that much. I still feel betrayed. And when he was going through his depression and anxiety crisis right after the bomb, it's like I had to put my feelings on the backburner and help him through his pain so he wouldn't kill himself. Well, now that things are better, it's coming out again. I just feel so betrayed. And I'm just supposed to get over it, apparently, even though we don't get much chance to actually talk about what happened so I can process it.

As well, regarding the earlier post, I have NEVER EVER overreacted when H has been honest with me about anything. Even when he told me that the EA became a PA, I didn't get angry. I actually already knew it and just wanted him to be honest. His lying to me to prevent me from getting very upset is a coping mechanism he learned from his mother. She is a narcissist and a malignant one, at that. Very abusive to him emotionally. He even said that after he came clean, he was suprised at how calm I was. I don't know, maybe that's why he thinks I've over it? I mean, I'm calm about it, but I'm still hurt. Just because I'm not being hysterical and crying and screaming doesn't mean that I'm not in pain...

[timbits]

Journaling: I'm taking part in a local craft show and selling my jewellery. This is a great GAL because any money that I make, I'm putting towards buying a scooter (after my up-front costs, of course). I'm also moving ahead on the course to get my motorcycle license. I'm also taking a rug-hooking class and working on getting my book club together. We also (both H and I) have a weekly date with a friend. We used to go to the local university's cinema series, but now that it's over until the fall, we are watching The Sopranos as both H and I were fans and our friend hasn't watched it. So Thursdays are now pizza and Sopranos night. And, on top of it all, I meet my father for lunch weekly. Between this and work, I'm a busy bee.

It's nice to have so many activities at the moment. Not only am I enjoying them, but they also keep me pre-occupied so I don't focus on what is irritating me with my relationship. Things are going well with H, but, again, I'm still hurt and angry about it and if I sit too long, I stew on it.

H shaved off his goatee after having it there for almost 10 years. It looks so weird to see his face again, but I like it. He sure shocked me when he walked in the room. He didn't tell me he was going to do it, so when I heard the electric razor upstairs, I just thought he was trimming it. Then he walked in the room and it was just like when we first met! I couldn't speak for a minute. For a while, he had a full beard, but he's always had something on his chin. Of course, his mother doesn't like it, but she doesn't like anything about him. I made sure to tell him that I thought he looked great. He hasn't decided if he will grow it back or keep it clean shaven (his skin also gets irritated by daily shaving), but I told him he looked great either way.

I'm trying to DB. I'm trying to do what I need to do. My IC doesn't start until next week, so I am keeping busy until then. This is what I have to do. I feel like I'm growing as a person. I have also decided that I do want to stay in this marriage. It's funny. I've never felt trapped in this relationship, but by H go through his issues with freedom and finding himself, it's forced me to focus on my own feelings about who I am and what I want. While it hurts like hell, it is a positive thing, in the end. For a while, I was fantasizing about living on my own in an apartment, free to do whatever I want without having to take his feelings into account or be responsible for him. Then I realized that I'm NOT responsible for him. Yes, I still consider his feelings, but I'm not responsible for his happiness. This has been a weight off my shoulders. If he's depressed, he has to own it and work on it. I can support him, but I don't have to carry him. And the same goes for me. No one is going to step up and start taking care of me. I have to do it myself. I have to love myself and do what makes me happy.

If I can't love myself, how can I expect anyone else to?

[par4me]

You sound like such a nice person. I hope you find happiness and the hurt goes away. Joy will be in your life again. I know it doesn't seem like it some days. I feel it too. I don't have any advise, just wanted to wish you luck.

[timbits]

thank you so much. that really made a difference to my day. i hope that joy will be here again some day, too. h is struggling with his depression and anxiety again this week. he forgot he was still subscribed to ow's blog and got an alert email that she updated it. he has since unsubscribed, but he feels intense shame over what happened (which i guess is a good thing right now) and it just threw him into a tail spin. it doesn't help that his ic is on vacation for another two weeks. i tried really hard to support him, but not take his depression on for myself.

sometimes i feel really hopeless. we went to a friend's last night and i got kind of irritated with h. while we were there, we both seemed to be having a good time and suddenly, when it was just the two of us, he shows me his forearm and that he has cut himself again. i just looked at him and he said, "well, you'd probably see it yourself eventually anyway". honestly, it just rubbed me the wrong way. it made me feel like he was trying to punish me for having a good time. when we were leaving, i told him not to put me on the spot like that. it's not like i could really discuss it with him there and that it wasn't fair and put a huge damper on my evening. he apologized, but i'm still kind of annoyed with the entire situation.

instead of getting annoyed with him, i just dropped it after i told him not to do something like that again. i'm kind of pretending it didn't happen. i just need to keep happy thoughts until my own ic appointment next week.

thanks for saying that joy will be in my life again. i tend to be an upbeat person and fairly happy in general. yeah, i've had depression on occasion, but i feel like his is sucking me into a black hole.

[timbits]

Things are going well this right now (I know not to get too comfortable here...). I definitely feel a bit of distance between h and I. I find that when we go out to dinner, we don't have much to talk about. I always looked at those older couples who could have dinner and not say more than two words to each other. We're not quite there, yet, but it's awkward. I'm trying to resist the urge to fill the moments of silence with inanity.

H is doing a bit better. Our PCP gave him another anti-depressant that helps with sleep, but it zombified him and he couldn't really wake up the next day. This isn't good as he just started a new job and needs to be alert. He hasn't taken any more since. He's still on the klonopin, which takes the edge off so he can focus and relax, but can drive and function (small dose) and the increased dosage of his normal antidepressants. I'm not sure if this distance between us is due to the meds or due to the issues we have. Regardless, I'm trying to DB and GAL. I am super busy with the craft show (this weekend, so excited!), work and my class. I'm hooking a rug of an octopus that I drew out. It's looking really good at the moment, purples, blues and greens. It's very relaxing.

I had a quick talk with my mother on the weekend. She doesn't know about the EA/PA, but knows H is having issues with his depression and anxiety (he's had them since a child). She said she worries about me and how much of a strain it is on me. I told her I'm holding up all right, that I know things will get better and that I had to give H the responsibility of his own illness and it's not as overwhelming since I've done that. She doesn't seem to understand. For example, she doesn't understand why he would cut himself or what is bothering him. I know the EA/PA has something to do with it, but it's more than that.

I know that I need to be more open physically with H. I'm not doing that at the moment. I had a cold about 1.5 weeks ago and I just got another one yesterday, H is a germaphobe, so he tends to treat me like I have the plague. It gets a little annoying, but I ignore it for the most part. I told him that I'm stressed and not sleeping well, so that probably had something to do with it. I have had 6 colds this winter, which is extremely unusual for me. I usually have 1 a year, if that. I honestly think that stress is related as H had his EA/PA since about 09/2011 or so. Not that I'm blaming him, but it does seem weird. It's just a cold. I'm irritated because I'm too busy for this right now, lol!

I have an appointment with my IC on Wednesday. It's actually the MC that we saw. She asked H if he would mind and he said not at all. He's seeing his own IC and the MC already knows my history with PTSD, so it's nice not to have to go all over that crap again. I hate rehashing the details over and over again. My old IC retired, so I have to wait to get into another one, which could take up to 11 months (good old Canadian health care. If the government pays, you wait). So, if H and I are both fine with it and the MC is fine with it, it saves me some time (and money) by not having to waste 2-3 sessions to get into the entire history.

I also have a nail appointment tomorrow night and between that and getting ready for the show Saturday, I'm a busy bee.

[timbits]

Actually took the day off work today. My cold is pretty bad. H is still treating my like a leper. He slept on the couch last night. It was kind of nice having the whole bed to myself anyway. I think I made him feel guilty. I told him "You know, normal people tend to care when their wives are sick and actually take care of them". He didn't really say anything.

My mom is bringing some dinner home. I feel a bit better after sleeping in. Maybe I'll finish up on a few pieces for the show on Saturday. Might as well make use of my time. I can't sleep the whole day or I won't be able to sleep tonight, so I need something to occupy my time. I'm still going to my nail appointment tonight. Maybe go to the craft store for some last minute supplies. I think I have an ear infection, but I'll just wait it out and see if it gets better. I hate taking antibiotics.

H wrote me an email because the company he works for was supposed to have our banking info for direct deposit weeks ago from the staffing agency, but, as usual, they dropped the ball, so I had to dig out a void cheque for H. He actually said at the end of the email, "I hope you are feeling better". Maybe he meant it, but I'm thinking more along the lines of "Hopefully you aren't contagious anymore".

Oh well. I'll survive.

[timbits]

Still sick today. I feel better than yesterday, but didn't sleep well last night, so I took another day off. I'll be back and at 'em tomorrow. H slept on the couch again last night and will probably do the same tonight, if I know him.

The distance between us is getting to be an almost palpable presence in our home. I ache to have him touch me, to talk to me. We just don't have much to say to each other any more. I feel desperate, like I just want to burst into tears and beg him to hold me, but I know that would be a mistake. So I'm just pretending everything is fine for now, holding back so I don't ruin everything. It just hurts sometime, ya know?

I was supposed to have my IC today, but had to cancel it because I wasn't feeling quite up to going out. I probably could have dragged myself in, but my voice is pretty crappy. I will reschedule for next week some time so I can get some of this crap out. Right now, H is sitting in the same room in a separate chair (I'm on the couch), using his laptop and listening to music. It feels kind of like when OW was in the picture. He'd spend hours emailing her, but I know he's not doing that anymore (I can see the screen). I just wish we could talk, but I don't really know what to say.

I'm tired of feeling lonely in the house, especially when H is in the same room. I just wish that we could go back. That's what he keeps saying, he wishes that the ea/pa never happened. I feel like saying to him, "Honestly, you have no idea....", but I don't. I'm trying to follow the rules, to do the 180 and GAL. It's just a bit of a struggle right now. I know that you're supposed to do what you feel is the opposite of your instincts, but I'm really struggling right now. I just wish he could love me right now. I really don't think he can at the moment. I feel like he is just imploding in on himself and that's all he can focus on. I know it's not an outright rejection of me, but it's really hard not to feel completely rejected. Maybe it is a rejection? Maybe what I'm feeling is what he intends me to feel? I guess I'll never know unless he brings it up.