Stuck in Holding Pattern

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks 25,

I'm still trying to sort this all out in my head and what I really want to say. In the meantime, would you mind touching on something I wrote in a previous post?

I guess what I struggle with since finding this site and this approach is this: How do I show my W how important she is to me, without coming off as persuing? Maybe persuing is exactly what I need to do to some degree. She never once asked for space. Even when MC asked if I did that note on her window thing, she didn't say "It's too late for that", she just questioned who would've told me to do it (as you can tell, I've done very little for her in the romantic department).


In many cases we urge people to back off b/c the WAS wants them out of their face and the WAS cringes when the LBSer begs. In those cases we know the WAS needs to stop having their choice challenged and they need some air to breathe freely.

I happen to think you are in a different situation. Your w never asked you to get the heck out of her face and she never said she didn't care...IMO, (and I could be wrong)

the problem was she felt under loved

That's why she said what she said about her mother staying married b/c deep down her mom "knew she was the most important thing in dad's life"...

your w does not feel that way. She does Not feel smothered or pursued by you, and by your own admission, she doesn't have much reason to.

I'd look at Crimson's thread for guidance. He had changed a lot for the better and it's real.

It MAY save his marriage OR lead them to reconciliation after a divorce (I have two family members who divorced only to remarry a few years later, btw. So it happens).




Maybe what I'm asking for are some actual, real examples of ways I can show her she's special to me without seeming too persue-y, or smothering, AND in a way where I can manage my expectations (or lack thereof).

do you really fear you'll come off as "Smothering" or do you mean controlling?

Giving of yourself, listening to her like a lover would, or a best friend,

and applauding loudly for the 1% positives she does are starts...also do NOT SHOW HER your anger. It only fuels her desire to leave.

Pay attention to her. Make full eye contact when she speaks and do not interrupt or steer the things she said in a way that you prefer. Let her say her piece.

I don't know where else you two are so I can't say if a lunch or dinner invite would be doable or premature.

But a letter that is given to get things off your chest (ie LOVING things and nothing else)

may start things rolling. Then you can ask if she wants to discuss or process any of it with you and talk then.

[ben11]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm not really sure what she would think about it (my persuing). I think it might feel unnatural for her, and she might feel that it's forced. These are both things she said about our 'reset plan' that we agreed to with our MC. This plan included talking x times per week, seeing either x times,etc. It wasn't exactly organic. Maybe if I do it more in a go-with-the-flow' way, it will seem more natural.

I guess the main reason I ask is lets say I ask her out for lunch or something, and things seem to go well. Then a couple days later, or even a week later, I ask her again, and again, things go well (from my point of view), but after say 4-5 times, its always me initiating. Do I just keep going as long as things are positive? It could be seen as 'doing what works', but also could be seen as persuing. I've read it many times on these boards, and busto also told me directly to go at her pace. Respond 'in kind'.

Maybe we'll cross that bridge when/if we get there. Maybe I just need to focus on the letter for now...

I have a good GAL weekend ahead of me. I'm going to take these next few days to enjoy my life (I still love the life I have) and get to it on Monday.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm not really sure what she would think about it (my persuing).

There is no certainty. But I thought we'd established that pUrsuit is not something you have done much of-
AND
she has Not asked for the space that some WASs ask for.

So once again, IMO, the advice not to pUrsue is not applicable to your situation.

Yes I could be wrong-- but your approach thus far has only gotten you what? Seems you are headed straight to a divorce.

It's like a game of chicken and so far she is not steering away from the divorce path

MAYBE b/c the OM IS pursuing her and showing her the value she has to him...

It's nice that you are GAL this weekend but the longer you take with expressing your real feelings...well let's just say you sure don't seem to be in much of a hurry.

Do you really love her, or is it that you don't want to be the "rejected one"?



I think it might feel unnatural for her, and she might feel that it's forced. These are both things she said about our 'reset plan' that we agreed to with our MC. This plan included talking x times per week, seeing either x times,etc. It wasn't exactly organic. Maybe if I do it more in a go-with-the-flow' way, it will seem more natural.

Agreed. Be flexible but consistently attentive to her. And for a long time I would NOT attach any expectations of her inititating it back.

Do you see how you already want to know when you will get "paid back" or "know" that all is well w/her? Why is that? So you can "stop the WORK"?

This is supposed to be a change you WANT to make so you can be a better man. Trust me on this Ben,

learning to be more romantic & to express love in a more authentic way

is something ALL men ought to learn...geez, work on it and enjoy it!

It's not reasonable to already be worrying about how long you'll have to "try" - as if it's a drag to do so. Maybe that's not what you meant but it's how it struck me.

And it's not all that loving. Ben, see love as a gift to give and let THAT giving feel good to you. No goals attached, no expectations of her reciprocating or wondering when she will...

IF it happens, great. If it takes a long time (they say a month of consistent change for every year of the r, is a guideline, unless she's seen it fail and revert before. Then longer...) so be it. IF NOT, then at least you will know YOU did not let pride or selfishness prevent it.

I guess the main reason I ask is lets say I ask her out for lunch or something, and things seem to go well. Then a couple days later,

Uh no you don't wait around...

You two didn't just meet & begun dating so there are No games to play. You call her that night or the next day & you THANK her for the good time...

if the conversation still feels good and you get a nice vibe, you schedule another "event"...NOT a sleepover and without implying that expectation.

It's all about you putting your cards on the table Ben.

or even a week later, I ask her again, and again, things go well (from my point of view), but after say 4-5 times, its always me initiating. Do I just keep going as long as things are positive?

YES!

It could be seen as 'doing what works', but also could be seen as persuing. I've read it many times on these boards, and busto also told me directly to go at her pace. Respond 'in kind'.


Doing what works is THE priority. Not applying ONE SIZE FITS ALL "no pursuit" to your situation, esp when yours is different.




Maybe we'll cross that bridge when/if we get there. Maybe I just need to focus on the letter for now...

Focus on the letter and get a draft finished soon b/c it'll need tweaking. Plus you'll want to give her an open ended question of sorts, to see if she wants it further explained or elaborated on...

I have a good GAL weekend ahead of me. I'm going to take these next few days to enjoy my life (I still love the life I have) and get to it on Monday.

okay!

[ben11]

Here's my rough draft... kinda wrote it start to finish. Tried not to be too calculated or anything...

============================================================
W,

I don’t even really know where to begin in writing this letter. I guess the best place to start would be in saying I’m sorry. I’ve taken a lot of time lately to reflect on our relationship together, and no matter which angle I view it from, I’m overwhelmed with the feeling of how badly I failed you. I failed you as a husband, and I failed you as a friend. I’m not sure if I was oblivious, ignorant, or whatever other description you could use that would have me neglect you like I did. I took you for granted. I regret it deeply, and if given the chance, I’d do so many things differently.

Even when things were really starting to break down, I was so steadfast in the belief that I was a good husband. While maybe I was a ‘good husband’, I was not a good husband for you. I was not in tune to what you needed. I gave you what I thought you needed, without ever figuring out if you were truly happy. I blamed our issues on you, even pressuring you to go for individual counseling while I stayed at home making half-hearted efforts to show you that I was still trying to fix things on my end. I behaved like a little boy that wasn’t getting what he wanted. It’s no wonder we couldn't turn things around then. It’s no wonder why you didn’t want to. I don't blame you.

Since separation, I’ve gone through a whirlwind of emotions, sometimes all in the same day. There has been so much I’ve learned about myself, and how much I still have to learn. How to be a better man, a better husband, a better soulmate. I’m working hard to become the man I’ve always wanted to be, and the man you thought I’d be when you gave me your hand in marriage. I’ve come to realize how complacent I became in our marriage. It’s like I believed that the work stopped after the wedding. Little did I know how that's precisely when the real work had to begin.

I want you to know how special you are to me. I still struggle with the thought of losing the most important person in my life. I know how difficult this has been for you. I think I understand why too, and how it would be hard for you to think about us being together again. The foundation required in a marriage was severely lacking in ours, and I know it would be a lot of work to strip away at what we had, to lay the groundwork for a stronger and more fulfilling marriage. I just want you to know that I want to do that work. I don’t feel ready to throw in the towel, and I don’t want give up on the belief of an awesome marriage with you, the love of my life.

H
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[ben11]

25, any thoughts?

Or anyone else?

[MrBond]

Too wordy. I'd keep it short and sweet.

[ben11]

Too wordy. I'd keep it short and sweet.

Any particular reason? What part(s) would you take out? Have you read my story or just making a general comment?

[MrBond]

I read over your story and it's the same as most of the other ones. The thing is that the LBS feels like they have to tell a life story when the WAS just wants to here the bullet points.

Think about it this way. When you were dating your W, did you write her long letters saying how much she means to you? I doubt it. I'm sure the EA's kept their interactions short and to the point also.

It's just something we all learn along the way.

[ben11]

Wish I could say I've written her letters to express how much she means to me... that's one of the ways I failed her as a husband.

Thanks for the advice, I'll think about how I might change/shorten the letter.

[ben11]

Well the letters in the mail... Going to spend the next few days trying to keep my expectations out of the picture, but I already know that will be tough.

I found out today that I won't be able to transfer to the new city I'm planning to move to next month, so that really throws a wrench in my plans. It basically means if I still move, I'll have a 45+ minute commute... Wasnt great news.