Stuck in Holding Pattern

[ben11]

will not want to reconcile -UNLESS-

she believes marriage to you now, & "from this day forward",

could be different/better.

So how have YOU shown her that it could be?

What is different in YOU or how you interact with her, that indicates any possible improvement?

If she thinks you'll hold the A over her head like the sword of Damacles

or throw it in her face every time you are upset, she won't come home. (Who would?)

So she may not feel like it's worth even trying...esp if the MC is re-hashing the past or just about how SHE has to do "x" and "y".

Is it possible that

If she sees no change in you, she may Prefer to take her chances w/OM b/c she knows with you she's getting too little attention and too much anger?

have you done any forgiveness work? Not b/c she "deserves" it, but b/c the anger you feel is clearly influencing your choices, and it hurts You.

Through MC, I've told her I understand how we got to where we are. I understand why EAs happened. She felt alone in the marriage. I attribute that to my complacency, laziness, character flaws, and not being aware of the issue. I took full ownership of those things.

I feel like I'm more angry about the fact that she knows how much it hurt me to do what she did, and still wont cut off contact, than the actual EA itself. She's even apologized a few times for hurting me like she did, and betraying my trust, but yet, still wont correct it. But to me it was like her saying, "yeah, sorry about that. Will it happen again? Well, no, but I'm not going to give you any reassurance of that. Hope my apology means something"

Even after EA1, while we were still living together, she absolutely refused to delete OM1 from her facebook, because she didn't want to cause drama (he's a potential job lead down the road, mutual friends, yada yada). I think this is one of the reasons I really shut off between EA1 and EA2. Why not just pull my nuts out and stomp on them.

I know I can forgive the act because I truly do understand why it happened. When I put myself in her shoes, I can't look in the mirror and say I would've been able to refused the extra attention either. Especially when the M was over in most respects.

The problem with me showing her how I'm different is that, it's really hard to show someone how much they really special they are, and how much they mean to you, when you're separated, and you don't want to pursue them. How can I show that I can be romantic when she finds talking to me at a coffee shop forced and unnatural.

MC asked what if I were to climb a ladder, post a note on her window that expressed my love to her so it was the first thing she woke up to. She said she would think "who told you to do this". This is an example of a way I could prove to her I love her, by doing romantic things for her, but it would be very anti-DB.

One of the things she said in our last MC session, is that her mom said the thing that got her and her dad through the rough patches in their M is that she know that she was the most important thing in her dad's life. She never felt that with me. I validated that immediately, and told her how sorry I was about that and if I could do it over again, I would.

MC asked if she asked her dad the same thing, but she didn't know. He challenged her to ask him, but maybe I'll never know the answer. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

Some of the 180s I was able to do no matter what our situation was were:
- Learn how to cook, be self supporting
- Take better care of myself (exercise, healthier diet, etc)
- Have some drive in life again (finished school, signed up for challenging bike race/ride, planning to move to where we always wanted to live)

[ben11]

and or, your purpose in filing it. Is it a last ditch attempt to wake her up?

IF SO, know that it might not. But IF she does look your way or continue in counselling of some sort

what do you think YOU could do differently? It's important you look within b/c the real journey in life is an inward one.

I believe I mentioned my reasons for filing it. Is it a last ditch effort. Yes and know. If it wakes her up, great. If not, and she agrees to it, I'm getting some closure and security in my life.

As for what I could do differently, I'm not really sure at this point. I supposed I could just lay it out on the table. I could write her a letter to let her know that I understand how we got here, that I will forgiver her, and that she's the most special thing in my life, and all I want is to be together and prove to her how special she is to me. That the mistakes I've made will never happen again.

I mean what do I have to lose at this point. I'm already ready to sign a SA. But then what does it really accomplish... will it send her back into my arms? No. Would my boundaries change about OM? No, they wouldn't.

I get that I may not have been at this long enough, but everyone has their own threshold. I feel like I'm peaking at mine.

Okay, that's all for now. I feel like I'm just rambling at this point. Not even sure this all makes sense...

[ben11]

Knew I shoulda proofread that last one...

I meant to say:
I believe I mentioned my reasons for filing it. Is it a last ditch effort? Yes and No. If it wakes her up, great. Unlikely, but great. If not, and she agrees to it, I'm getting some closure and security in my life.

[25yearsmlc]

why not write a letter that you post here first? We can offer to help or review it so you don't begin it with an apology BUT then add "BUT" so that you can justify yourself a few sentences later. It happens a lot.

It'd have to be done so YOU KNOW you said it to her, NOT b/c you expect something in return and you don't get to be hurt or angry if silence is the answer.

Frankly, the best case realistically, is that you'd plant a seed of doubt in her.

B/C I think when you say you "own your part" you MAYBE glossed or skimmed it b/c the examples you gave of you "trying" were admittedly short lived and

when she wasnt ready for sex, you withdrew the attention. To a woman that reeks of manipulation and insincerity.

What struck me the most is what she told the mc about HER parents.

Her mom stayed married to her dad, b/c her mom knew SHE was the most important person in her h's life.

That's what your w wants from you -I strongly believe that. But you don't seem able to give it in any sustained way OR,

without conditions attached...(like a quick return on your "investment" = sex)

rather than the sheer joy of just GIVING LOVE to someone without an expectation of pay back attached. B/c then it's just a trade, it's not a gift of love.

Just some thoughts...

[25yearsmlc]

ps

what about the letter from the WAW to her h? Any thoughts on it?

and what is your w SAYING she wants now, OR is she still conflicted, (as I suspect)?

[ben11]

why not write a letter that you post here first? We can offer to help or review it so you don't begin it with an apology BUT then add "BUT" so that you can justify yourself a few sentences later. It happens a lot.

It'd have to be done so YOU KNOW you said it to her, NOT b/c you expect something in return and you don't get to be hurt or angry if silence is the answer.

Frankly, the best case realistically, is that you'd plant a seed of doubt in her.
[quote]
I think this is probably a good idea. I've been already thinking about stuff to say so if I get something together I'll post here for input. I do agree that it needs to be written in a way where I have no expectations.

[quote]
B/C I think when you say you "own your part" you MAYBE glossed or skimmed it b/c the examples you gave of you "trying" were admittedly short lived and

when she wasnt ready for sex, you withdrew the attention. To a woman that reeks of manipulation and insincerity.

What struck me the most is what she told the mc about HER parents.

Her mom stayed married to her dad, b/c her mom knew SHE was the most important person in her h's life.

That's what your w wants from you -I strongly believe that. But you don't seem able to give it in any sustained way OR,

without conditions attached...(like a quick return on your "investment" = sex)

rather than the sheer joy of just GIVING LOVE to someone without an expectation of pay back attached. B/c then it's just a trade, it's not a gift of love.

Just some thoughts...

As mentioned before, during the last 6 months of our marriage, my 'trying' was sincere in the sense that I truly wanted my marriage to work, but I understand how it could be seen as both manipulative and insincere from her end. That's something I will probably include in the letter in some way.

I guess what I struggle with since finding this site and this approach is this: How do I show my W how important she is to me, without coming off as persuing? Maybe persuing is exactly what I need to do to some degree. She never once asked for space. Even when MC asked if I did that note on her window thing, she didn't say "It's too late for that", she just questioned who would've told me to do it (as you can tell, I've done very little for her in the romantic department).

Maybe what I'm asking for are some actual, real examples of ways I can show her she's special to me without seeming too persue-y, or smothering, AND in a way where I can manage my expectations (or lack thereof).

[ben11]

ps

what about the letter from the WAW to her h? Any thoughts on it?

and what is your w SAYING she wants now, OR is she still conflicted, (as I suspect)?

There were a couple things I thought when reading the letter. One of them is where she talks about knowing that getting deeper with OM will make it harder to go back to H, to see him the same. It actually makes me kind of angry. It's so selfish to me, its saying I know I'm hurting you, I know this is ruining our chances, but I'm doing it anyway. Sorry (insincere)

The other thing is how long it can take to believe in change. Maybe I'm just kind of rushing this because I'm moving and just want a fresh start. A lot of my moving strategy changes depending on whether she's in my life long term. This includes size of home, location, rent, amenities, level of luxury, etc. I like making decisions and being sure of them, but right now I can't.

As for what W wants? No idea. Haven't spoke since last MC session, and even then there was no clear cut direction. She's conflicted. She's thinking 'Can H and I ever have what I need in a marriage?'. And you know, I'm thinking the very same thing. I'm scared about it too. But I'm willing to try figure it out.

[ben11]

One more quick tidbit. Through many of our R talks in and out of MC, she mentions that she felt like I didn't want her as much as I just wanted a W. Feels that I just wanted to be married, and she came along.

I did my best to convince her otherwise, but obviously I haven't done a good job.

Just another thing to ponder...

[25yearsmlc]

ps

what about the letter from the WAW to her h? Any thoughts on it?

and what is your w SAYING she wants now, OR is she still conflicted, (as I suspect)?

There were a couple things I thought when reading the letter. One of them is where she talks about knowing that getting deeper with OM will make it harder to go back to H, to see him the same. It actually makes me kind of angry. It's so selfish to me, its saying I know I'm hurting you, I know this is ruining our chances, but I'm doing it anyway. Sorry (insincere)

I see it differently. Although you're right in the sense that she is aware of the great risks, it's BECAUSE of that, she is fearful...she won't have a "fling" b/c her emotional needs are not met IN the marriage.

So to me, It's her saying "I think other men (in general) would treat me better than my h, b/c my h doesn't seem to get me or love me much.

I fear if I get involved with any OM it'll lead to a serious affair (not a "fling) b/c I'm so lonely in my m and an affair, may mean the end of my m. BUT I'm SO lonely IN the marriage, that I may just take the risk..."


The other thing is how long it can take to believe in change. Maybe I'm just kind of rushing this because I'm moving and just want a fresh start. A lot of my moving strategy changes depending on whether she's in my life long term. This includes size of home, location, rent, amenities, level of luxury, etc. I like making decisions and being sure of them, but right now I can't.


there is inherent ambiguity in this situation so that is how it is. Try to embrace the ambiguity b/c you don't have a choice here UNLESS you want to throw in the towel so you can be "sure" that the future does not include her...

As for what W wants? No idea. Haven't spoke since last MC session, and even then there was no clear cut direction. She's conflicted. She's thinking 'Can H and I ever have what I need in a marriage?'. And you know, I'm thinking the very same thing. I'm scared about it too. But I'm willing to try figure it out.

that would be something to include in the letter.

[ben11]

Thanks 25,

I'm still trying to sort this all out in my head and what I really want to say. In the meantime, would you mind touching on something I wrote in a previous post?

I guess what I struggle with since finding this site and this approach is this: How do I show my W how important she is to me, without coming off as persuing? Maybe persuing is exactly what I need to do to some degree. She never once asked for space. Even when MC asked if I did that note on her window thing, she didn't say "It's too late for that", she just questioned who would've told me to do it (as you can tell, I've done very little for her in the romantic department).

Maybe what I'm asking for are some actual, real examples of ways I can show her she's special to me without seeming too persue-y, or smothering, AND in a way where I can manage my expectations (or lack thereof).