I am a 36 year old male who has been married for 15 years to my HS Sweetheart (dating for 19 years!!). In our first couple years of marriage we had some difficulties due to a couple of one night stands I was involved in. Things seemed to be just fine for the next 10 to twelve years.
After our daughter was born in 2004, W started experiencing symptoms of depression. I asked if it was due to my earlier infidelity which she denied for the next 7 years. We would have arguments in which I admitadly was not the nicest and was on rare occassion considered by her to be verbally abusive.
Early last year after struggling with multiple medications and still not admitting to me that she felt emotionally abused and still holding my infidelity against me, she began a long term affair of her own. She carried this on in secret but I knew something was wrong and immediately began making positive changes to try to win her back.
I thought we would succeed after she finally admitted the affair and committed to end it and give 100% to saving our marriage. We continued individual counseling and began marriage counseling. This began in September and seemed to be going well. We ended up having another "fight" just before the holidays.
We had a session with the marriage counselor before we left on vacation. We had renewed our intimacey prior to this and continued through the vacation. We had a phenomonal vacation and a great New Year trip. All through these trips she indicated that she was happy and loved me and was committed to the relationship. She said that she was the happiest she had been in a long time on New Years. When the clock struck Midnight she kissed me and looked in my eyes and told me she loved me. The one thing she got depressed about on vacation was about her parents and her Father's verbal and emotional abuse of her mom. She said she was ready to go home a couple days early. We also celebrated our 15th anniversary and I gave her a diamond necklace and a card that spoke about soul-mates.
When we returned home, her first day back to work included a trip to her individual counselor. She came home somewhat down and was talking about being tired of our marriage being tentative.
The next day was much better and we were intimate that night and she again expressed her love for me. The next day however, she returned home from a bad day at work and later that night told me that she wanted to leave me again.
I am fairly certain that there is not OM at this time. I believe that she is clinically depressed or has a hormone imbalance. She refuses to actually see a psychiatrist or a GYN to address the potential for factors outside my behavior.
I have assured her the I will not revert to what she considers verbal abuse in our fights. I drew a line in the sand and told her that I would leave at her request if I did. I have done almost all of the work to save the marriage to date and to no avail.
She has very little concern for how this disaster will effect our children ages (11) and (7) and believes that her true happiness lies in leaving me. She has told different versions of the truth to her individual counselor, our former marriage counselor (she fired her), and to me. She has me on a yo-yo.
I am about to the point where the last resort technique is in order. I am crushed and know that the marriage can prevail and be happy...problem is that she doesn't. The only thing holding her back by a thread is the kids. She told me yesterday that her goals in marriage counseling (new counselor)had changed and that her goal was to negotiate an amicable divorce! I think her individual counselor is prodding her in that direction...
I am totally confused because she says that she still loves me and that we are best friends! She says she just doesn't believe that the changes I have made and promised will last.
There are moments when she seems to be considering giving it a go and I see a hint of indecision in her eyes. When she is up, she is up. But when she is down, she is really down...
HELP! I am so confused...I don't know what to do!!! I am so down but doing everything I can to fight for our marriage and stay optimistic but my resolve is getting crushed by her daily...I am about to give up.
H 36, W 35, M 15 S 11 D 7 Bomb 08/03/2011 2nd Bomb 01/04/2012 3rd Bomb 04/26/2012 Divorced 07/23/2012
Well, we made it to the new marriage counselor on Saturday. Thank god that the counselor aske some very important questions about W's mental health and possible depression and suicide ideations. She finally intervened and recommended that my wife seek the advice of a psychopharmacologist and get her medication situation straightened out and monitored to hopefully find some relief from her depression.
Unfortunately, W spent the rest of the weekend in deep depression rarely getting out of bed. I just took care of the house, kids, and her and tried to tell her it wasn't her fault she felt that way. I tried to say positive things but she goes out of her way to withdraw from me emotionally, physically, etc.
Then came the switch. Last night I got her out of bed to keep an eye on the kids while I went to a meeting. She was slow at first but when I returned home she was doing laundry and getting the kids ready for the next day's events before bed.
In the bedroom that night she was very discontent and seemed angry. I tried to not really give a lot of attention to her sighs and shifting in the bed as we watched TV. I did ask a couple of times if she was alright. She would say yes and not speak after that.
When the show was over, I rolled over and just looked at her for a while because she had that troubled, dejected look on her face. She then came out of the shell and said, "I feel trapped". I asked her why and she said "because of the kids". I told here that I was not holding her back from anything and that those feelings were reasonable to have. I said that we owe our kids better than to just give up and quit, but that I was not in charge of her life and that I planned to be happy regardless of her decision to stay or go. I told her that I was intent on being happy with my mate and that I hoped it would continue to be her.
Anyway, I am still just as confused since she seems to be very conflicted. She agrees that if we really put in the effort to work on our relationship that we could be happy. She says she just doesn't want to. She also says that the primary thing driving her to leave is that she is still unhappy (only 4 months after the affair ended) and that she doesn't hold any hope for us.
I want so bad to just check out emotionally and live my life but I feel that I will be being disingenuous if I do. I don't want to give up on my marriage or my the family unit. I believe in this thing so much but I know I can't convince her.
H 36, W 35, M 15 S 11 D 7 Bomb 08/03/2011 2nd Bomb 01/04/2012 3rd Bomb 04/26/2012 Divorced 07/23/2012
3rdStrike, I perceive nothing wrong with your post, but I am not a mod. You are probably still under moderation. Keep posting, eventually moderation of your posts will cease.
I am sure a couple of the vets will be along shortly. I assume from your mention of LRT that you’ve read DB or DR. I suggest reading them again. I have lost track of the number of times I have.
I understand from your post there has been infidelity on both sides and that your W ended her affair 4 months ago. I do not have practical experience here, however I understand some “coming down” from the euphoria is normal after an affair. I am not attempting to make light of your W’s depression symptoms. She has had a professional recommend they be taken seriously. I am suggesting you not add to the tension. Don’t agree, don’t disagree, validate no matter what the cause is her feelings are real.
I suspect she doesn’t see your changes a real b/c they have not been consistent for long enough yet. Don’t give up on the changes make them real.
In case you have not seen these yet here are Sandi’s 37 rules. They are a good place to start.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
Thanks so much for the reminders and the support. I can't tell you how much it lifted my spirits to have the support from another person who is going through it too.
I have read it and I had her back working on things in September and I got complacent and let a fight happen out of my jealousy in early December. For her this was the breaking point. She acted as if everything was cool over the holidays and then dropped the bomb again on 1/4/12. She fired our marriage counselor and luckily or not we have a new one. But her goal in counseling is to exit the marriage while mine is to save it.
I really need to find the inner strength to follow the rules and follow through with the program. Not sure how to deal with having to put my thoughts and feelings out there with the new marriage counselor though.
I really need to let go of trying to contro the outcome of this regardless of how terrible the collateral damage and long term effects are on the kids. If I love them, I guess I have to just trust in that higher power and the program to work.
I guess in the end, if she is going to leave me, there is nothing I can really do to stop her. My greatest fear is that if she does leave and has a change of heart later that the damage may be to great for me to return to the table.
H 36, W 35, M 15 S 11 D 7 Bomb 08/03/2011 2nd Bomb 01/04/2012 3rd Bomb 04/26/2012 Divorced 07/23/2012
I just thought of another problem I don't have a solution for. I am a career military man and W really has me by the balls with my work and deployment schedule. Any recommendations on how to deal if she goes and finds a place of her own?
I have made it clear that I have not been physically abusive in any way. I have ceased all consumption of alcohol, although for many years I have been a 1-2 beer a night guy unless we were out partying together.
I also don't intend to let her uproot the kids from the home they have known for the past two years. The logistics on this may get tricky...
Maybe I should just stop trying to predict the future?
H 36, W 35, M 15 S 11 D 7 Bomb 08/03/2011 2nd Bomb 01/04/2012 3rd Bomb 04/26/2012 Divorced 07/23/2012
Thanks so much for the reminders and the support. I can't tell you how much it lifted my spirits to have the support from another person who is going through it too.
I have read it and I had her back working on things in September and I got complacent and let a fight happen out of my jealousy in early December. For her this was the breaking point. She acted as if everything was cool over the holidays and then dropped the bomb again on 1/4/12. She fired our marriage counselor and luckily or not we have a new one. But her goal in counseling is to exit the marriage while mine is to save it.
Ok, so you got complacent and escalated an argument. I perceive you realize this was a mistake. Don’t repeat it. I suspect if you turn this around and get back to working on things again she will be sensitive to this mistake. She may even probe for it.
I really need to find the inner strength to follow the rules and follow through with the program. Not sure how to deal with having to put my thoughts and feelings out there with the new marriage counselor though.
You said career military. So what are the first 2 general orders for sentries? Now take charge of yourself. Walk this post. Use your professional aplomb
I really need to let go of trying to contro the outcome of this regardless of how terrible the collateral damage and long term effects are on the kids. If I love them, I guess I have to just trust in that higher power and the program to work.
You do not have control of the outcome. You do not control her. You only control you and how you act. Use the concern about how this will affect the kids to motivate yourself and only to motivate yourself. Develop a deeper trust in your faith whatever that may be. It can help to center yourself and calm some of this ride
I guess in the end, if she is going to leave me, there is nothing I can really do to stop her. My greatest fear is that if she does leave and has a change of heart later that the damage may be to great for me to return to the table.
Let go of the fear, it does not serve you or your purpose. If she leaves, she leaves. If she comes back, she comes back. Again you do not control another’s actions.
Should she pause and consider coming back she is more likely to favorably consider it if the road home has been paved and is smooth. And standing at the end is a calmly confident, considerate; in control of himself man she was a fool to have left.
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I just thought of another problem I don't have a solution for. I am a career military man and W really has me by the balls with my work and deployment schedule. Any recommendations on how to deal if she goes and finds a place of her own?
I do not have a good response here. I was not involved in a serious relationship during my enlistment. I’ll offer this suggestion only because I knew a couple of Marines that went this route when trouble at home kept them from performing. We had a very good First Sergeant, or you may wish to speak with the Chaplin b/c he will hold confidences. Neither can solve the problem, but may be able to offer suggestions or another perspective.
I have made it clear that I have not been physically abusive in any way. I have ceased all consumption of alcohol, although for many years I have been a 1-2 beer a night guy unless we were out partying together.
Who are you speaking to here? Who did you make it clear to? I ask b/c this comes across as anger, and in your post above you mentioned a fight b/c you were jealous. You cannot afford escalations to angry exchanges. Do you have a 180 here?
I also don't intend to let her uproot the kids from the home they have known for the past two years. The logistics on this may get tricky...
This comes across as confrontational. I get your concerns about the kids, and setting boundaries where they are concerned. You want what is best for them. Use care they do not become a bargaining point as this will serve no one and likely harm them.
Maybe I should just stop trying to predict the future?
Definitely stop predicting fearful outcomes. A little prior planning is good, use care not to get wrapped around the axle.
Thinking about what you are doing for yourself, for and with the kids, less about what she is doing and how that will look like will help you detach a bit.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
