Dark Shadows on the Roller Coaster

[2thepoint]

Had a very vivid dream last night. I usually forget them shortly after waking but this one is sticking with me.

In my dream my W and I are walking together in an unfamiliar office building and at some point my W and I are seperated, though she is somewhere nearby. Then my W's T and I are walking together and we are having a discussion about cats.

Apparently there are people in this office who keep cats and W's T is asking why we don't keep one in the office as well.

In this dream I'm explaining that certain parts of the office it is probably ok to have cats but in the area I work in (Oh! I apparently have a job in this dream :)) they are not permitted.

For some reason we start arguing about whether a certain person who has a cat works in the area where they are permitted or not. The T is adament that cats are ok everywhere and I am taking the opposite position.

The discussion turns markedly hostile and I am visibly agitated about the discussion. At some point my W comes back into the picture and I am explaining what is going on.

Then the alarm wakes me up.

So what to make of this dream?

Dreams that I remember typically are about non specific themes or people. They usually don't involve people that are front and center in my life.

So as I think about what meaning this dream has, the only thing I can think of is the concept of conflict and always needing to be right (cats aren't permitted vs. yes they are) and the suspicion I have about my W's T not being M friendly and possibly guiding my W away from working on our Marriage.

The interesting thing is that I can't think of any recent triggering events that would have caused me to have this dream. Anyway, I'm glad I remembered this dream and got in down in type.

New day, new opportunities!

[kolja]

Well, this may not be helpful to your question, but I knew it was time to go to the LRT when my DB coach suggested it.

BUT, having said that, after he did so he took a moment to explain a couple of the things that just might be going on in her head, and with that basis, the LRT both made sense, and made it EASIER to emotionally detach. When put in the context of that technique, the necessity of detaching was much clearer to me and the why's and wherefore's made a little more sense.

[Rick1963]

"Another theory uses a computer metaphor to account for dreams. According to this theory, dreams serve to 'clean up' clutter from the mind, much like clean-up operations in a computer, refreshing the mind to prepare for the next day"

2tp there are many theories about dreams. I like this one^^^^^. It may explain why you were confronting yourself.

[Hopeful321]

2TP--I love looking my dreams up in dreammoods.com

[rickb89]

2TP - So as I think about what meaning this dream has, the only thing I can think of is the concept of conflict and always needing to be right (cats aren't permitted vs. yes they are

Rick said - this is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading your post. Is that something you feel you need to work on for yourself? If so, maybe this dream reflects that.

As fas a the T being a threat to your M...I have heard that if the patient is there for their own problems...not necessarily about the M itself... then the T will focus only on the individual patient and their issues....but that they don't tell the patient or give orders that the patient should do or not do this or that. They just help the patient uncover the true issues inside of them....then draw the patient out so that they can get answers for themselves.

I used to worry that my wife's psychiatrist would try to break up our M so that she would be happier, so I understand your anxiety. It doesn't work that way though.

[bustorama]

OK, so we've talked a lot about Detaching, 180's, GAL, PMA, etc. Since Busto has raised the concept of the LRT, I'd like to shift the focus on this as I think this is now where I may be at with my W and my sitch. Or.... have I ot done enough detaching yet to move to the LRT?

Divorce Remedy and Michelle Weiner-Davis' blog indicate that the LRT should be implemented IMMEDIATELY if any of the below are true:

1) Your spouse has said to you in no uncertain terms that s/he wants to get a divorce and it appears as if s/he really means it. It wasn’t just said in the heat of battle.
2) You and your spouse are separated physically.
3) You and your spouse still live together but have very little to do with each other. You may be sleeping in separate rooms, have virtually no communication, and little or no sexual contact.
4) Your spouse has filed for divorce

Your situation is certainly at #2. Many people that come to this board are at a point that meet MWD's criteria of time to LRT, but many do not implement it right away because it is difficult to accept the reality of the situation.

Concretely, the LRT, interpreted by me, is:

1) Step 1 – Stop ALL pursuit/relationship behavior

I would include in this ALL behavior that suggests in any way that the two of you are in an R or M (and certainly includes emotional detachment).

STOP INITIATING:
Phone calls/texts/letters/emails
R talks of any kind
Discussion of R/M
When you are in same place as the WAS, do not initiate following them around, be busy with yourself and watch them approach you
Future/planning talk
Contact with mate's family/friends that in any way is about R
Giving gifts/flowers
Giving compliments/words of affirmation
Giving acts of service (taking out trash, etc.)
Trying to schedule dates or alone time
Spying on what spouse is doing

You are stopping all pursuit/relationship behavior, including stopping meeting any of their emotional needs through their love languages. This is you accepting their assertion they do not want to live with and/or be with you as a couple. Treat them the same way you treat an ex that you are still on good terms with.

Step 2 - GAL/Move on
- Revitalize and rediscover yourself as an individual/parent/friend/family member/etc.

- In a life that does not include your WAS

- Work under the premise that your WAS did not exist in your life, what would you do/who would you be? Who were you and what did you like to do before you first met WAS? What would you like to improve about yourself?

- Within this are 180's, PMA, self-mojo, self-confidence

The basic idea is your WAS has already (partly?) detached from you. You need to accept this detachment and detach from the WAS even more than they have detached from you. You weren't so focused on her loss and the loss of the R/M until you became aware of the fact that she was detached from you. That's what drew you into all this approach behavior and thinking towards her -- you perceived the vacuum where you previously expected her to be and you moved to fill it.

It's only if your WAS experiences the same vacuum for where YOU used to be (aspects of you that she is still taking for granted) that you have any chance of turning things around. The reality is she may not miss you, but she certainly has not missed you so far with the way things have been going and you still doing little acts of service for her. And, at the bottom of everything, it is accepting what she says she wants. Where not accepting that is what got many of us into trouble in the first place.

It seems so counter-intuitive, but you may find her start to call more, or email more, or text more. Looking for contact with you as you accept what she's telling you, that she no longer wants to be with you as your W.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/how-to-prevent-a-divorce-the-last-resort-technique/

[bustorama]

Note that going dark is different from LRT in that in going dark you also stop RESPONDING to their attempts to contact you. I ended up going there in my sitch. Yes, both LRT and going dark are emotionally trying.

[bustorama]

My situation turned around when I had the confidence to flirt with my W in the same conversation that I was telling her I was drawing up papers to divorce her. For me, it was a tightrope of self-confidence while pulling away.

Some on here previously have compared it to the banter of old Cary Grant videos.

[2thepoint]

Busto - Thanks as always for the thoughtful post. This is really helpful for me to see this in writing and to wrap my mind around the concept of LRT. A lot of these techniques seem to be similar or bleed into each other so I find it a little challenging to decipher where one technique stops and another starts. I found the check list to be helpful as it helps me to see where I am hitting the mark and where I am still struggling.

Concretely, the LRT, interpreted by me, is:

1) Step 1 – Stop ALL pursuit/relationship behavior

I would include in this ALL behavior that suggests in any way that the two of you are in an R or M (and certainly includes emotional detachment).

STOP INITIATING:
Phone calls/texts/letters/emails - no calls or emails from me but some texts only related to children
R talks of any kind - none
Discussion of R/M - none
When you are in same place as the WAS, do not initiate following them around, be busy with yourself and watch them approach you - check
Future/planning talk - none
Contact with mate's family/friends that in any way is about R - none, although SIL calls occasionally to check on me
Giving gifts/flowers - none
Giving compliments/words of affirmation - occasionally, this is W's secondary LL
Giving acts of service (taking out trash, etc.) - this is W's LL so it is hard not to want to make up for my lack of attention in this area
Trying to schedule dates or alone time - none
Spying on what spouse is doing - none

"The basic idea is your WAS has already (partly?) detached from you. You need to accept this detachment and detach from the WAS even more than they have detached from you. You weren't so focused on her loss and the loss of the R/M until you became aware of the fact that she was detached from you. That's what drew you into all this approach behavior and thinking towards her -- you perceived the vacuum where you previously expected her to be and you moved to fill it."

True and very insightful!

"It's only if your WAS experiences the same vacuum for where YOU used to be (aspects of you that she is still taking for granted) that you have any chance of turning things around. The reality is she may not miss you, but she certainly has not missed you so far with the way things have been going and you still doing little acts of service for her. And, at the bottom of everything, it is accepting what she says she wants. Where not accepting that is what got many of us into trouble in the first place."

This is so spot on! Although I'd like to think I'm am at this stage, truthfully I don't think I am emotionally ready for this yet.

Something else I found helpful was this snippet from a post by Jack Three Beans on one of Denver's threads:

J3B - My on-line gaming addiction is what lead to my neglect of my wife. I ignored her. Later when I LRTed, I ignored her as well. How was it different?

On the surface? If you just look at the ignoring part...nothing.

But, I no longer played computer games. I worked out, when I was around her prior to the LRT I was as fun, and kind as I could be, I GALed, I proved I wanted her but did't need her, I showed her many of my changes.

When I LRTed, I took all of that away. All of it. I interacted strictly on a business level, regarding our boys and our bills. I was not mean, I was not nice.

Previous to this, I ignored her because of my failing.
Afterwards, I ignored her because of hers.
In the middle I showed her that I had changed.

All the things J3B did in the "middle", I think I need more time with. I don't think enough time has passed with my various 180's and changes for my W to believe they are solid and lasting. It would seem to be a little dangerous to completely disengage before more of that had a chance to solidify. I'm not suggesting I am in need of validation from my W or that I'm waving my arms saying look at me! I just think I need to show more of the changes before unleashing the LRT.

[bustorama]

My own timeline is pretty similar to Jack's. I neglected the hell out of my wife. I changed and acted lovingly towards her for several months. Tensions stopped, but no reciprocation or return to relationship. I then actively ignored her because of HER neglect of me and the M.

There is another marriage repair approach (Harley's Marriage Builders) that advocates a Plan A, Plan B which is substantively very similar to the above.

There is debate my many whether Plan A/filling love tank/showing change is necessary or whether the part that has an effect on the spouse is the LRT/Plan B/pulling away. And, if it is necessary, for how long it should go on (because the LBS can develop feelings of resentment, be viewed as doormat/valueless). For LBS men, I've seen things in the 1-6 month range suggested, for LBS women, typically much shorter (up to 1 month). In my own sitch, I think I may have kept it up too long, because I was starting to feel resentment by the time I shut down (ca. 7-8 months).